2021 motor racing thread

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Yeah was crazy to hear Horner complaining about the cars between Hamilton and Max, telling Masi let them race and then saying to Wolf that this is racing when he was justified to complain about FIA not following their own god damn rules.

To people saying this was okay because Merc has been dominating for years, how you feel if the roles were reversed?

Allowing both championship rivals to compete at each other, on the last lap of the season, everything at stake. Do it again I'd say. Masi saved the season. There is a reason why the director has these powers, it's for these moments. If Lewis had won, at least it was competitive and not because he gained an advantage on lap 1, which everyone would be discussing right now. If Max couldn't get past Ham on the last lap, then he wasn't deserving of the championship.
 
Allowing both championship rivals to compete at each other, on the last lap of the season, everything at stake. Do it again I'd say. Masi saved the season. There is a reason why the director has these powers, it's for these moments. If Lewis had won, at least it was competitive and not because he gained an advantage on lap 1, which everyone would be discussing right now. If Max couldn't get past Ham on the last lap, then he wasn't deserving of the championship.

Masi followed the intention of the rules.

That can be a whole conversation unto itself, as to if the intention of the rules is correct, or if the way the rules are written aligns with the intention of the rules, but Masi did what the rules were there to do.
 
A couple of days on, I think it depends on the person and personality on whether they liked what happened. I'll sort of put together the pros and cons on each side to try to summarise it all.

It also depends on which camp you're in (Team Dutchie or Team Met Gala).

Way I see it, the big pro is that the season ended on track and there was a spectacle and the con was that to create that spectacle Michael Masi, from most people's reading broke the rules. One tthing I'm unsure of is whether the cars that went to unlap made it to the back of the train in time as I think that's a requirement too?

The things that make Masi look horrible IMO are the comments:

  • "We only need one racing lap" by Horner followed by Masi flip flopping on the lapped cars and pulling in the safety car
  • "We're here to car race" by Masi because it basically meant that in the end, the rules didn't matter

Which side do I sit on? I prefer to the rules being followed. It basically leaves no doubt. No doubt people will forget (especially if Max wins a few more titles) but if it somehow ends up being the only one he wins, people will likely consider it tainted (or in the parlance these days, "asterisked"). Unfortunately they'll always be doubt now. Mind you the rules being followed doesn't mean there won't be salt thrown about. As a kiwi, even though it was within the rules, the Greg Chappell telling Trevor to bowl underarm will still rankle even though the odds of the Kiwis TYING the game was remote.

From a opinion on who deserves the title, I feel that Lewis did more, one his own albeit with better machinery. The last race showed that Bottas was a absolute road cone whereas if called upon, Perez could be relied upon to at least put up some resistance. The both got lucky through the year, who got luckier? IMO Max by a long shot.... Yes, Lewis was allowed to unlap himself at Imola and Max at Baku.... but you know what, tyres blow out all the time, he could've pitted and changed. The one that stands head and shoulders above them all (and again it's probably a Masi thing) is the farce that was Spa. If that was a no race, the points table would've looked different going into Yas Marina. A no result at Spa changes everything for good and bad, because we'll never know as the drivers would've driven differently. Lewis also had the sprint race at the back of the grid penalty for Brazil which took him out of the running for up to 3 points (who'd have though the sprint races would actually make a difference?) but hey, rules are rules and his wing was off to the back of the grid he went.

The one thing that grates me is that Max drove like a maniac the whole year. Just dive bombing and those that've followed my posts has relied on people to get out of his way lest they get into a crash. It's his gimmick and he's ridden it to a championship. Lewis probably should've fought more, earlier in the season but again, like I've said before, he probably thought Max would Max himself and just DNF. Full credit to Max for in general, managing to keep it together. Of the wheel to wheels they had, I still don't feel Lewis did anything wrong in Silverstone, some possible understeer but it definitely felt more like a racing incident compared to the stunts Max pulled at Saudi Arabia. The best drives for both IMO.... Lewis in Brazil in the races and Max in USA.

FWIW, I think that Lewis is a twat too. Just not a reckless one. I did ask before why couldn't one of the frontrunners be Danny Ric, Lando or George cos at least they seem likeable (probably why they're not contenders too, tbh)
What? Surely no one can believe this.

  • Imola; Lewis goes off track on his own breaking his front wing and had it not been for the perfectly timed Bottas/Russel crash and resulting red flag he would have finished out of the points but instead got P2.
  • Exploding tire in Baku; happened to multiple drivers with zero warning resulting in one of the reasons they called the red flag so drivers could change tires. Pirelli's own investigation confirmed it was not the teams fault and made changes to mitigate the issue. A change that people feel benefited Mercedes.
  • Silverstone; Lewis gained 26 points from sending Max off the road and into the wall. The resulting red flag allowed Lewis to repair his car at no time loss. Plus it also destroyed Max's engine resulting in him having to take penalties later on.
  • Hungary; Bottas goes bowling taking out both Red Bulls leaving Max with half a bargeboard/floor causing him to have Haas level's of downforce and only getting P9.
Spa was a 5 point swing due to half points, really not much in the grand scheme. Max led more laps than the entire rest of the grid, combined and was on the podium every race he didn't DNF (minus Hungary.) Both drivers would have been worthy of the title but to say Max had more luck than Lewis, come on.
 
...Max drove like a maniac the whole year. Just dive bombing and... ...relied on people to get out of his way lest they get into a crash. It's his gimmick and he's ridden it to a championship.

Senna was renowned for doing exactly what you just described.
Same for Schumacher.
Villenueve.
Montoya.
Alonso.
Vettel.
Ricciardo.
Leclerc.
Many others, take your pick.

Even Hamilton himself prior to the significant car advantage he's had in the turbo era.

The best overtakers in the sport have always been doing this.
 
What? Surely no one can believe this.

  • Imola; Lewis goes off track on his own breaking his front wing and had it not been for the perfectly timed Bottas/Russel crash and resulting red flag he would have finished out of the points but instead got P2.
  • Exploding tire in Baku; happened to multiple drivers with zero warning resulting in one of the reasons they called the red flag so drivers could change tires. Pirelli's own investigation confirmed it was not the teams fault and made changes to mitigate the issue. A change that people feel benefited Mercedes.
  • Silverstone; Lewis gained 26 points from sending Max off the road and into the wall. The resulting red flag allowed Lewis to repair his car at no time loss. Plus it also destroyed Max's engine resulting in him having to take penalties later on.
  • Hungary; Bottas goes bowling taking out both Red Bulls leaving Max with half a bargeboard/floor causing him to have Haas level's of downforce and only getting P9.
Spa was a 5 point swing due to half points, really not much in the grand scheme. Max led more laps than the entire rest of the grid, combined and was on the podium every race he didn't DNF (minus Hungary.) Both drivers would have been worthy of the title but to say Max had more luck than Lewis, come on.
Also, Lewis got the win in Silverstone due to Charles having engine issues. By the way, I didn't like how Max drove in Jedda and Interlagos, but trying to blame him for the dive bombing in Yas Marina is hilarious. The guy kept the car on track and was ahead at the apex, it was an aggresive but fair move, it was Lewis who was on the wrong side of the rule gaining an advantage racing off the track.
 
Also, Lewis got the win in Silverstone due to Charles having engine issues. By the way, I didn't like how Max drove in Jedda and Interlagos, but trying to blame him for the dive bombing in Yas Marina is hilarious. The guy kept the car on track and was ahead at the apex, it was an aggresive but fair move, it was Lewis who was on the wrong side of the rule gaining an advantage racing off the track.
lewis has made quite some mistake this race, has always left the door open fo rmax, especially that last lap, knowing max having the fresh tires, weird.
when max defended the last lap on the last straight, he kept the inside lane closed. much smarter choice.
also, didnt lewis push the pace too soon on that last restart?
 
lewis has made quite some mistake this race, has always left the door open fo rmax, especially that last lap, knowing max having the fresh tires, weird.
when max defended the last lap on the last straight, he kept the inside lane closed. much smarter choice.
also, didnt lewis push the pace too soon on that last restart?
I think Lewis was leaving the door open was always the plan, he knew max makes the move regardless of the door being open. Lewis was a sitting duck on the old tires even if he aced the restart. What’s was interesting to note, was that max said the pressure wouldn’t get to him and it really did in the last four races. From the crash in quali to get penalties to getting out driven in Yaz Marina off the line on softs and wrecking his tires in quali and needing to go on softs. (Even if that was the plan). He really needed luck with the safety car, new tires and the full bending of the rules for him to get his title. He better back it up with another title at some point.
 
I think Lewis was leaving the door open was always the plan, he knew max makes the move regardless of the door being open. Lewis was a sitting duck on the old tires even if he aced the restart. What’s was interesting to note, was that max said the pressure wouldn’t get to him and it really did in the last four races. From the crash in quali to get penalties to getting out driven in Yaz Marina off the line on softs and wrecking his tires in quali and needing to go on softs. (Even if that was the plan). He really needed luck with the safety car, new tires and the full bending of the rules for him to get his title. He better back it up with another title at some point.
It seems the pressure eventually gets to whomever is in the lesser car. When RB was ahead Lewis made a lot of really shocking uncharacteristic mistakes that we haven't seen in years. Max did the same in the last 4 races. I guess when you're up against it, it happens no matter if they say otherwise.

As a Max supporter, I don't like the way it ended but I think he's still deserving of the title. I think both are. It sucks but there's nothing we can do now. I hope the FIA holds itself to a higher standard in the future, probably unlikely since they police themselves and don't have to answer to anyone.

I also don't think it was a decision to go against Lewis, as much as it was a decision for the spectacle. I think the same would have happened no matter who was leading. We're in the Netflix era now. Excitement is all that matters I guess.
 
As a Max supporter, I don't like the way it ended but I think he's still deserving of the title. I think both are. It sucks but there's nothing we can do now. I hope the FIA holds itself to a higher standard in the future, probably unlikely since they police themselves and don't have to answer to anyone.
Thats the problem here. They were neck and neck coming into the last race. Before the safety car Lewis was cruising to the title despite being held back by Perez. Yes it was a boring finish after all the drama and then Masi puts himself in middle of everything like he is a Roman Emperor.
 
It seems the pressure eventually gets to whomever is in the lesser car. When RB was ahead Lewis made a lot of really shocking uncharacteristic mistakes that we haven't seen in years. Max did the same in the last 4 races. I guess when you're up against it, it happens no matter if they say otherwise.

As a Max supporter, I don't like the way it ended but I think he's still deserving of the title. I think both are. It sucks but there's nothing we can do now. I hope the FIA holds itself to a higher standard in the future, probably unlikely since they police themselves and don't have to answer to anyone.

I also don't think it was a decision to go against Lewis, as much as it was a decision for the spectacle. I think the same would have happened no matter who was leading. We're in the Netflix era now. Excitement is all that matters I guess.
It could have been done for the spectacle, but there was no way Lewis was staying in front. I think if Lewis pitted and came out behind, with fresh tires, they would have ended under safety car. Just like they gave half points at spa. That’s just my opinion. And there is no way red bull would have dropped the appeal or been like the way lewis was after the race.
 
It could have been done for the spectacle, but there was no way Lewis was staying in front. I think if Lewis pitted and came out behind, with fresh tires, they would have ended under safety car. Just like they gave half points at spa. That’s just my opinion. And there is no way red bull would have dropped the appeal or been like the way lewis was after the race.
If they wanted drama in the end, red flag the race and let both change tires*, then Max has 4-6 laps for one last charge.
They did this earlier this season so not like it would been unheard of (was France i think).

*or in the future once SC or VSC comes out, no one is allowed to change tires.
 
It could have been done for the spectacle, but there was no way Lewis was staying in front. I think if Lewis pitted and came out behind, with fresh tires, they would have ended under safety car. Just like they gave half points at spa. That’s just my opinion. And there is no way red bull would have dropped the appeal or been like the way lewis was after the race.
I don't think they would have ended under SC if Ham pitted but like you said that's my opinion. I don't think it was manipulated against anyone, just manipulated for spectacle. Regardless of tyres they see one lap for the championship as an exciting end. I'll use Hanlon's razor and assume stupidity from Masi and the FIA since that's what they've shown all season.

Also the way Anthony Hamilton went over to Jos Verstappen after the race really showed his class. Jos is a trash human being and said some personal shit about Lewis this year. No chance I'd have shook that dudes hand or given him a hug like that.
 
I don't think they would have ended under SC if Ham pitted but like you said that's my opinion. I don't think it was manipulated against anyone, just manipulated for spectacle. Regardless of tyres they see one lap for the championship as an exciting end. I'll use Hanlon's razor and assume stupidity from Masi and the FIA since that's what they've shown all season.

Also the way Anthony Hamilton went over to Jos Verstappen after the race really showed his class. Jos is a trash human being and said some personal shit about Lewis this year. No chance I'd have shook that dudes hand or given him a hug like that.
Didn’t hear what jos said about Lewis. I know that max said his view of Lewis went down over the fast few races. But that was before the final race. Tempers were high. Lewis and Nico hated each other. And they were on the same team (which could be worse) and seb ran into Lewis on the track one time. Not to mention senna vs Prost and other rivalries. Let’s see how the teams do with new cars next year.
 
Prepare for the new hotness...



The return to ground effect after so many years is something I'm very excited about.

I'm also very happy with the approach to developing this ruleset, all the work and attention that has gone into it. Details like the corner surface, wing supports and endplates etc are a clear example of how this car has been designed to benefit the fans rather than teams, and I think that's a good thing.
 
I'm a huge Moto/Supercross fan and came across the the Factory GasGas Supercross team participating in a little flat tracking on 2 stroke bikes which looked super fun. Anyone ever done this?
 
I had an old workmate that was into speedway sidecar. Talked about having me on as a swinger, but I'd left before he completed the build. I'd love to do it some day, but not sure when I'd get the opportunity.
 
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