Elections 2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Inslee and Hickenlooper out

[luckyshot]

Ignore polls again this go-round. Trump voters don't answer honestly. They're afraid of being physically attacked or doxxed or their jobs jeopardized by being honest to pollsters. They are for the dem or undecided when asked. Just like late in 2016 polling.

You know the polls were fairly accurate (within the margin of error) in predicting the vote in 2016, right?

Trump won the election despite losing the vote; that doesn’t mean the polls were wrong in saying he would lose the vote.

 

[Fawlty]

You know the polls were fairly accurate (within the margin of error) in predicting the vote in 2016, right?

Trump won the election despite losing the vote; that doesn’t mean the polls were wrong in saying he would lose the vote.

Also when did pollsters start stalking people IRL? What a weird claim.

 

[xcvbn]

Yeah, I know. It's always obvious how worried they are when you see masses of illegals waving Mexican flags nowadays and "protesting" for their "rights", as one example.
<puh-lease75>

Killed by who? I'm simply stating a fact while you're talking out your ass. I know a lot of Trump supporters, and I know what a lot of them said they do when people ask them questions. Nobody at my place of employment supports Trump if you ask them. Odd, given I know that half do. We're in a weird place and it's not the left that has to be concerned. They are the intolerant nuts.

Yeah I get it, white supremacy and white terrorists are a hoax. Hoax. Chinese conspiracy. Liberal conspiracy. Etc

 

[PHATV]

Yeah I get it, white supremacy and white terrorists are a hoax. Hoax. Chinese conspiracy. Liberal conspiracy. Etc

I knew I should have left it alone. And yeah, you're right. Hoax. There's like 5,000 of those losers coast-to-coast in the US. Carry on, though.

 

[Jack V Savage]

It was very surprising to me to see Sanders doing better than Biden among independents.

Independents are as reliably partisan as party-affiliated voters in general. If someone normally votes for Democrats but doesn't identify himself as a Democrat, they're (Benjamin Dreyer-approved usage) very likely to be a Bernie fan and very unlikely to be a Biden fan.

 

[HereticBD]

It’s such a weird slip up that I’m not sure what the most outrageous offensive is. That non-whites are poor? That whites are smarter?

Either way, it’s not even that bad and certainly won’t be the worst slip he makes on the campaign trail. It’s joe biden we’re discussing here.

Seriously. These gaffs are not needle movers. It's a funny one, but he ain't gonna lose any support over it.

 

[Lead]

We’ll keep v2 up until the 28th when we find out who all qualified for the third debate. That way, we can do a new poll with a more narrow field of options. So far, I believe there are nine qualified for the September debate. I’m unsure how likely it is for more to get in within two weeks.

 

[Lead]

Looks like it’s currently these nine:
Biden
Warren
Harris
Bernie
Booker
Buttigieg
Klobuchar
O’Rourke
Yang

Also, these three have the possibility of getting in as they’ve met one of the criteria and just need to complete the other (in polling or fundraising)

U.S. Rep. Tulsi Gabbard and former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Julian Castro have hit the fundraising threshold. Billionaire Tom Steyer has three qualifying polls.

U.S. Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand has one qualifying poll and says she’s crossed 100,000 donors. Former Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper has one poll. Washington Gov. Jay Inslee says he’s 15,000 contributors shy of 130,000.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sou...aw3ZcbQAtO2WXvMgafMw981k&ust=1565633438767173

 

[luckyshot]

Independents are as reliably partisan as party-affiliated voters in general. If someone normally votes for Democrats but doesn't identify himself as a Democrat, they're (Benjamin Dreyer-approved usage) very likely to be a Bernie fan and very unlikely to be a Biden fan.

That makes sense.

 

[waiguoren]

Warren, Sanders, and Biden Lead the Democratic Primary Nationwide Following Debates

Key Takeaways:

Elizabeth Warren (26%), Bernie Sanders (23%), and Joe Biden (23%) have the highest levels of support of Democratic primary nationwide following the second round of Democratic debates

Democratic primary voters were most impressed by the debate performances of Warren, Sanders, and Pete Buttigieg

Voters were least impressed by the performances of John Delaney, and Bill de Blasio.

Joe Biden was among those listed as most impressive (by 17% of respondents) and least impressive (by 19% of respondents).


https://www.changeresearch.com/post-debate-poll-august-2-4-2019

 

[xcvbn]

 

[Fawlty]

This is you memeing and not caring what facts are. Here are the facts.


The US spends more than twice as much as the median of developed countries (this is why the word "peers" is in the second headline). The US does not spend twice as much as any other (developed) country.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/09/politics/fact-check-bernie-sanders-health-care-spending/index.html
"
The situation was similar for 2017, the last year for which the OECD has hard data. The US spent $10,207 per person; Switzerland spent $7,147, Norway $6,064, Germany $5,848, Austria $5,270, Sweden $5,264 and the Netherlands $5,155.
"


And all you had to do was look up the fucking articles, like I just did in two minutes.

 

[waiguoren]

This is you memeing and not caring what facts are. Here are the facts.


The US spends more than twice as much as the median of developed countries (this is why the word "peers" is in the second headline). The US does not spend twice as much as any other (developed) country.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/09/politics/fact-check-bernie-sanders-health-care-spending/index.html
"
The situation was similar for 2017, the last year for which the OECD has hard data. The US spent $10,207 per person; Switzerland spent $7,147, Norway $6,064, Germany $5,848, Austria $5,270, Sweden $5,264 and the Netherlands $5,155.
"


And all you had to do was look up the fucking articles, like I just did in two minutes.

Median vs mean is a very minor quibble here though, especially when the correct statement (the median one) makes Sanders's point better.

 

[Fawlty]

Median vs mean is a very minor quibble here though, especially when the correct statement (the median one) make Sanders's point better.

That's not the quibble with the talking point. It's statements like this:

"Right now, we spend twice as much per capita on health care as do the people of any other nation. We should talk about that. Spend twice as much."

 

[xcvbn]

This is you memeing and not caring what facts are. Here are the facts.


The US spends more than twice as much as the median of developed countries (this is why the word "peers" is in the second headline). The US does not spend twice as much as any other (developed) country.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/09/politics/fact-check-bernie-sanders-health-care-spending/index.html
"
The situation was similar for 2017, the last year for which the OECD has hard data. The US spent $10,207 per person; Switzerland spent $7,147, Norway $6,064, Germany $5,848, Austria $5,270, Sweden $5,264 and the Netherlands $5,155.
"


And all you had to do was look up the fucking articles, like I just did in two minutes.

Yeah. Bernie should change his entire message because of one single outlier which we still outspend by 50%. You centrists are done for whether it's in 2020 if Bernie wins or 2024 after Trump wins again. Neoliberalism is over. Can't say I feel bad for the corporate dems or their radical centrist sheep.

 

[Trotsky]

This is you memeing and not caring what facts are. Here are the facts.


The US spends more than twice as much as the median of developed countries (this is why the word "peers" is in the second headline). The US does not spend twice as much as any other (developed) country.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/09/politics/fact-check-bernie-sanders-health-care-spending/index.html
"
The situation was similar for 2017, the last year for which the OECD has hard data. The US spent $10,207 per person; Switzerland spent $7,147, Norway $6,064, Germany $5,848, Austria $5,270, Sweden $5,264 and the Netherlands $5,155.
"


And all you had to do was look up the fucking articles, like I just did in two minutes.

Labeling it as "false" rather than "half-true" or "mostly true" is....misleading. Also, using what are in my opinion more appropriate measurements that include lost wages, lost consumption. and foregone care, the US does spend more than twice per capita of any country.

 

[Fawlty]

Labeling it as "false" rather than "half-true" or "mostly true" is....misleading. Also, using what are in my opinion more appropriate measurements that include lost wages, lost consumption. and foregone care, the US does spend more than twice per capita of any country.

I'm okay with allowing for the reframing or clarification ambiguous talking points, I'm okay with some amount of (inevitable) soundbite-culture-caused fudging of facts, and I'm also okay with ripping into them a bit for misrepresenting the facts. In either case, it was not hypocritical of CNN to show that other countries spend 70% of what we do and to call Bernie on a claim that is false as stated. And yeah further information about the real impact is always good, especially our comparatively bad safety net.

Overall, the important thing is the honest effort to relate things to the facts, whether in advocacy or criticism.

 

[Fawlty]

Yeah. Bernie should change his entire message because of one single outlier which we still outspend by 50%. You centrists are done for whether it's in 2020 if Bernie wins or 2024 after Trump wins again. Neoliberalism is over. Can't say I feel bad for the corporate dems or their radical centrist sheep.

Your response is "You're done, Sheeeeeeeeeeep!"

You give no fuck about the truth, in your wee meme mind.

 

[xcvbn]

Labeling it as "false" rather than "half-true" or "mostly true" is....misleading. Also, using what are in my opinion more appropriate measurements that include lost wages, lost consumption. and foregone care, the US does spend more than twice per capita of any country.

Yeah but

the US only spends 93% more than Austria, 94% more than Sweden, and 98% more than the Dutch.

Not quite twice as much Bernard. Stop lying. You sound like Trump.

 

[waiguoren]

That's not the quibble with the talking point. It's statements like this:

"Right now, we spend twice as much per capita on health care as do the people of any other nation. We should talk about that. Spend twice as much."

"Right now, our median health care spending is twice as much as any other nation. We should talk about that. Spend twice as much."