20 years ago

[TheBystander5]

Imo, socio-economic class a person is born into is quite a huge determining factor in the production of champions.

Not to be controversial here, but just look at any pro combat athlete from any country. A pattern you will see is that most originate from the poverty stricken parts of their nation. In Russia it is the Caucasus region (Dagestan, Chechnya), in Thailand it is Northern Thais, in China it is the Northern Chinese, in the USA it is the predominantly African Americans areas.

Ive been to many gyms and ive always notice some people there with alot of talent. By looking at them i sort of know if they did it full time they can definitely be a champion. However many of these kids have other more viable opportunities other than fighting. For most from economically impoverished parts of the world however fighting is the only ticket they got .

MT i think in USA is still a yuppie type thing. Not too many African American. Personally i doubt itll gain enough traction to compete on world stage.

 

[Cole train]

Imo, socio-economic class a person is born into is quite a huge determining factor in the production of champions.

Not to be controversial here, but just look at any pro combat athlete from any country. A pattern you will see is that most originate from the poverty stricken parts of their nation. In Russia it is the Caucasus region (Dagestan, Chechnya), in Thailand it is Northern Thais, in China it is the Northern Chinese, in the USA it is the predominantly African Americans areas.

Ive been to many gyms and ive always notice some people there with alot of talent. By looking at them i sort of know if they did it full time they can definitely be a champion. However many of these kids have other more viable opportunities other than fighting. For most from economically impoverished parts of the world however fighting is the only ticket they got .

MT i think in USA is still a yuppie type thing. Not too many African American. Personally i doubt itll gain enough traction to compete on world stage.

In russia they are supported by govrmerment as an amateur, also in caucasus local oligarchs like to support a single fighter (happened with khabib)

More about resources and support directed to training plus how developed the sport is in the country really than economic class

A westener from say europe cant keep up when he has to go to work to earn a living when a guy from some ex soviet country has been training full time since amateur days or some american guy who literally has wrestling ingrained in school system

This is very noticable for example in immaf (ammy mma world championship)

 

[j123]

In russia they are supported by govrmerment as an amateur, also in caucasus local oligarchs like to support a single fighter (happened with khabib)

More about resources and support directed to training plus how developed the sport is in the country really than economic class

A westener from say europe cant keep up when he has to go to work to earn a living when a guy from some ex soviet country has been training full time since amateur days or some american guy who literally has wrestling ingrained in school system

This is very noticable for example in immaf (ammy mma world championship)

All I got from this is that Russia has a program with neophytes for their Blood Angels successor chapter: The Comrades

 

[Cole train]

All I got from this is that Russia has a program with neophytes for their Blood Angels successor chapter: The Comrades

 

[Dexter]

All I got from this is that Russia has a program with neophytes for their Blood Angels successor chapter: The Comrades

Reported for Wahamma fanboism .

 

[Dexter]

<Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo>

...the poverty stricken parts of their nation. In Russia it is the Caucasus region (Dagestan, Chechnya)

LOOOOOOL <Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo>. Where did you get that idea, comrade?

 

[Cole train]

<Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo>

LOOOOOOL <Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo>. Where did you get that idea, comrade?

Grozny looks like las vegas nowadays

 

[zapataxiv]

All I got from this is that Russia has a program with neophytes for their Blood Angels successor chapter: The Comrades

The angels sons... their blood curse will be their undoing
If the comrades knew what was good for them they would castaway their devotion to the corpse emperor and praise the eightfold path

 

[j123]

The angels sons... their blood curse will be their undoing
If the comrades knew what was good for them they would castaway their devotion to the corpse emperor and praise the eightfold path

This is the corpse emperor

Spoiler

I guess they would be right to cast away their devotion to this salty one

Reporting you to the inquisition btw

 

[shincheckin]

Boxing is fine, but in the early stages it won't shine, rarely does in the open ruleset. When they start getting more fights down and developing "their style", which I usually see it to be around 10+ fights, then the investment will start to really kick off. Early on when there's too more optimal tools on the table, coupled with coaching confusion, it really throws the fighters off.

Seen it numerous times. Fighters would be covering 10 step patterns with more head movement when they have no cognitive thinking with panic breathing. No addressing on clinching or leg kicks, thinking body rips work in the clinch or are better than elbows; When the shocker hits the fan, the poor guy/gal end up as a deer in headlights. Doesn't help that their MT coach told them some core basics how to defend in clinch, and while they're stalling it, boxing coach decides to yell "GO TO THE BODY", and he fucks himself putting himself in double collar rape zone. Seen TKOs from that scenario in person numerous times. 2 coaches in a fight where they contradict each other is a bad call.

But once the novice stage is done and they get the exp in to have more composure, breathing, etc. it will work, will work pretty well if the other party doesn't know shit about what boxing comes with. Just at that early point in their "career" they're thinking too much, the absolute essentials are to be done. Boxing at that point is really just fluff and icing. MT in the ammys is where if you have an amazing clinch and piss poor kickboxing, you'll still dominate. I will say though, boxing has a bigger carry over to MMA than MT does in general. The region of the fights also determine alot, it doesn't seem that way but it is. A place like bumfuck nowhere where there's only wrestling and YouTube MT, your MT fighters are gonna be manlet MMA strikers with sloppy brawling, whereas an area with a larger MT scene it will have more very lanky, tall cleaner MT. It all depends.

Utilizing sports science, nutrition, prioritization are the options that should be looked at. That's where I agree with the whole "THE THAIS DO IT" is wrong and different for people outside of Thailand or a 3rd world country.

Very well said.

I think the US own style of MT will develop more, it will incorporate more boxing and footwork, movement etc. Which traditional MT lacks. A good example of this is Janet Todd vs stamp fairtex. Stamp had a very stationary style. Janet's had a bit more movement.

 

[Paradigm]

Very well said.

I think the US own style of MT will develop more, it will incorporate more boxing and footwork, movement etc. Which traditional MT lacks. A good example of this is Janet Todd vs stamp fairtex. Stamp had a very stationary style. Janet's had a bit more movement.

I always said she had better MT technique as an amateur than most people in the UFC. Of course, she's a specialist but still.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Very well said.

I think the US own style of MT will develop more, it will incorporate more boxing and footwork, movement etc. Which traditional MT lacks. A good example of this is Janet Todd vs stamp fairtex. Stamp had a very stationary style. Janet's had a bit more movement.

hell, I’ve even noticed the guys around Seattle/Tacoma play Muay Thai different than you guys in so cal, both of which are different than the east coast cats. Never mind the growing mid west amateur scene that’s cooking up some real tough fighters too. It’s crazy

 

[aerius]

I think the US own style of MT will develop more, it will incorporate more boxing and footwork, movement etc. Which traditional MT lacks. A good example of this is Janet Todd vs stamp fairtex. Stamp had a very stationary style. Janet's had a bit more movement.

Which the current Thai stadium game lacks. Samart, Saenchai, and Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu have all spoken about how the clinch and body kick heavy stadium style is quite different from the style outside the stadiums which is closer to the free flowing style of the golden age. They've all talked about how fighters making a transition to the big stadiums run into a ton of trouble with the scoring and style difference because it's quite different from what they're used to in the regional levels.

It's interesting because we now have several top Thais who are now fighting over in One FC, and the way they fight there is different from the way they fight in the stadiums. There's more boxing since they're often using MMA gloves and they're also using more movement based defence since the clinching is more limited. Superlek vs. Panpayak in One FC wasn't even close to the way they fought in the stadiums, they threw more punches in a single round than they did in entire fights, and there was a lot more work to create angles for landing strikes instead of just standing in front of each other to kick & clinch.

 

[shincheckin]

hell, I’ve even noticed the guys around Seattle/Tacoma play Muay Thai different than you guys in so cal, both of which are different than the east coast cats. Never mind the growing mid west amateur scene that’s cooking up some real tough fighters too. It’s crazy

Yeah well see some cornbread raised strong fighters coming out of the US. A lot strong muricans out there. I believe all they have had for the most part is wrestling

 

[shincheckin]

Which the current Thai stadium game lacks. Samart, Saenchai, and Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu have all spoken about how the clinch and body kick heavy stadium style is quite different from the style outside the stadiums which is closer to the free flowing style of the golden age. They've all talked about how fighters making a transition to the big stadiums run into a ton of trouble with the scoring and style difference because it's quite different from what they're used to in the regional levels.

It's interesting because we now have several top Thais who are now fighting over in One FC, and the way they fight there is different from the way they fight in the stadiums. There's more boxing since they're often using MMA gloves and they're also using more movement based defence since the clinching is more limited. Superlek vs. Panpayak in One FC wasn't even close to the way they fought in the stadiums, they threw more punches in a single round than they did in entire fights, and there was a lot more work to create angles for landing strikes instead of just standing in front of each other to kick & clinch.

Yup, movement gives difficulty to "thai style"

Damien trainor has written about the lack of movement in the sport and how its it's changing as well. Don't know if you are aware of trainor being influenced by dekkers but its quite easy to see in his fighting style.

 

[shincheckin]

I always said she had better MT technique as an amateur than most people in the UFC. Of course, she's a specialist but still.

Yeah lucky for her she was trained by one of the best MT coaches in the US. I did a interview with him. 18 amateur fights and 2 pros. Not a ton of experience, but a lot for a US fighter of his age/generation. He's also married to chais daughter so I'm sure that was a help getting to learn from him

Nathan ward after going abroad is definitely one of the better US fighters too.

Popejoy is a cool guy, nice friendly, humble