2 x S&C with 4 x MMA?

[shamuk]

Hello guys,

I'm currently training MMA 4 x per week, and I would like to add x 2 strength and conditioning sessions.

Im mainly want to improve my cardio and strength endurance while doing some recovery and prehab work for my shoulders, but im unsure and what structure.

The S&C gym i will be training at has everything from prowler, sled, monkey bars, tire and club, power rack, dumbbell rack and more.

Here is a link to the gym with photo of equipemnt. http://www.thehivegym.co.uk/gym.aspx

What type of workouts and structure would you recommend?

Thanks

 

[Ethan]

I am partial to a 2 day 5/3/1 split although maybe 5x5 is better for you if you haven't done weight training before. T Nation will have a few posted I'm sure. Just try googling and pick one.

Conditioning is much easier. Add some HIIT. I would expect you have a decent aerobic base from MMA already so you should be fine doing just intervals right after you lift.

 

[shamuk]

I am partial to a 2 day 5/3/1 split although maybe 5x5 is better for you if you haven't done weight training before. T Nation will have a few posted I'm sure. Just try googling and pick one.

Conditioning is much easier. Add some HIIT. I would expect you have a decent aerobic base from MMA already so you should be fine doing just intervals right after you lift.

Thanks for the reply Ethan, yeah have been looking at 2 day 5/3/1 split. How do you train MMA as well as 5/3/1?

What accessory lifts do you do?

In the book Jim says probably dont need a deload week, is this the case with you?

 

[LZD]

Strength work as follows:

1. agile 8 or simple six warm up plus foam rolling (cover pre hab and activation as a warm up = efficiency)

2. 531 for mma:
Workout A
Squat 531
Bench 531
Rows 3x10

Workout B
Deadlift 531
Ohp 531
Chin up 3x10

3. one "finisher" - tire flips, sledge hammering, prowler - pick work rest intervals based on your energy system goals as derived from the faq.

Use sprint intervals on the prowler, longer intervals on the sledge, etc. Look up joel jamieson for ideas. On my phone right now...hence lack of links in this thread.

 

[shamuk]

Strength work as follows:

1. agile 8 or simple six warm up plus foam rolling (cover pre hab and activation as a warm up = efficiency)

2. 531 for mma:
Workout A
Squat 531
Bench 531
Rows 3x10

Workout B
Deadlift 531
Ohp 531
Chin up 3x10

3. one "finisher" - tire flips, sledge hammering, prowler - pick work rest intervals based on your energy system goals as derived from the faq.

Use sprint intervals on the prowler, longer intervals on the sledge, etc. Look up joel jamieson for ideas. On my phone right now...hence lack of links in this thread.

Thanks LZD, that's just what I was looking for!

I have Joels book, which is really great! I will look up some more ideas from him!

If you could post up some links when you have time I would really appreciate it, thanks!

 

[Obscure Terror]

If you're doing the above template, I would still deload every 4th week. You're cramming a lot of work in on the main lifts and saving on the assistance work. I've done this split and personally could handle a lot more volume, generally I do two of the 5/3/1 lifts and then 3 assistance exercises. Example:

Workout A:
Squat 5/3/1
Bench 5/3/1
Romanian deadlift using Simplest Strength
Close grip Bench using Simplest Strength
Rows

Workout B:
Deadlift 5/3/1
OHP 5/3/1
Front Squat using Simplest Strength
Incline Bench using Simplest Strength
Chins

Workouts take longer but I didn't do any conditioning after. Still deloaded every 4th week, mainly because my legs and back accumulated a lot of soreness from wrestling and BJJ. Striking didn't affect me the same recovery wise.

 

[Ethan]

Thanks for the reply Ethan, yeah have been looking at 2 day 5/3/1 split. How do you train MMA as well as 5/3/1?

What accessory lifts do you do?

In the book Jim says probably dont need a deload week, is this the case with you?

I only do Judo right now, 2x per week, but I used basically this when I did 5x a week. I lift 3x but you can pretty easily make it into 2 days. I lift in the morning, and train Judo at night. Usually I shift whatever lift is currently taking the most out of me to Friday, but other than that I don't have trouble getting the volume in. I'm doing a variation on 5/3/1 which uses mostly repping on the big 3 as assistance.

Monday/Deadlift day

Squat 3x5-10 at deload intensities
Deadlift 5/3/1 as normal
Bench-3x5-10 at deload intensities

Wednesday/Bench press day

Squat 3x5-10 at deload intensities
Bench 5/3/1 as normal
Kroc Rows 20xwhatever weight you think you can't do once.

Friday/Squat day+OHP day

Squat 5/3/1 as normal
OHP 5/3/1 as normal
Chin ups 5xmax

I'm sure you can figure out how to combine two of these days. Deadlift day and Bench day strikes me as the easiest way to do it. I can't find where I got this 5/3/1 program but when I do find it I'll link it here.

Deload, I do it if I feel ok. If I feel crappy and I want a week off I don't, and if I feel great and I want to keep going I skip it and start a new cycle. LZD has the better answer anyway but I'll leave this here in case.

 

[KnightTemplar]

If you're doing the above template, I would still deload every 4th week. You're cramming a lot of work in on the main lifts and saving on the assistance work. I've done this split and personally could handle a lot more volume, generally I do two of the 5/3/1 lifts and then 3 assistance exercises. Example:

Workout A:
Squat 5/3/1
Bench 5/3/1
Romanian deadlift using Simplest Strength
Close grip Bench using Simplest Strength
Rows

Workout B:
Deadlift 5/3/1
OHP 5/3/1
Front Squat using Simplest Strength
Incline Bench using Simplest Strength
Chins

Workouts take longer but I didn't do any conditioning after. Still deloaded every 4th week, mainly because my legs and back accumulated a lot of soreness from wrestling and BJJ. Striking didn't affect me the same recovery wise.

This is almost exactly what Wendler recommends in his, "5/3/1 for MMA" article. I use this split even though I usually only manage a single 3 hour BJJ/Thai Boxing session per week.

I'm old and I need the extra time to recover. Especially from Grappling...:redface:

 

[LZD]

531 for MMA: http://www.jimwendler.com/2012/02/531-and-mma/

Defranco's "Agile 8": http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/w...fting/warm-up-your-hips-agile-8-a-631289.html

Defrancos "Simple Six": http://leanbodiesconsulting.com/blog/joe-defrancos-simple-six-upper-body-warm-up-/

As for Joel Jamieson's work/book, you could use the Prowler for High Resistance Intervals (HRI), which involves repeated efforts of 10-12 seconds of work.

You could use sledge-hammering and tire flipping as part of an explosive repeat circuits.



If you are training MMA seriously I would advise against the assistance work suggested by PanteraFan, at least initially. I suppose you could work up to it.... but your time might be better spent doing something else.

 

[shamuk]

531 for MMA: http://www.jimwendler.com/2012/02/531-and-mma/

Defranco's "Agile 8": http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/w...fting/warm-up-your-hips-agile-8-a-631289.html

Defrancos "Simple Six": http://leanbodiesconsulting.com/blog/joe-defrancos-simple-six-upper-body-warm-up-/

As for Joel Jamieson's work/book, you could use the Prowler for High Resistance Intervals (HRI), which involves repeated efforts of 10-12 seconds of work.

You could use sledge-hammering and tire flipping as part of an explosive repeat circuits.



If you are training MMA seriously I would advise against the assistance work suggested by PanteraFan, at least initially. I suppose you could work up to it.... but your time might be better spent doing something else.

Thanks for the help LZD, I will defiantly take you advice!

One things tho, what would you recommend to replace OHP?

Its just I have had a shoulder injury in the past, and Eric Cressey doesn't recommend overhead movements. I can do them pain free, but just don't want to risk another jury...

 

[BulldogWrestler]

I currently do BJJ 3-4 times a week. I'm thinking of going Mon-Thur, running twice a week after practice and maybe adding a decent strength/conditioning routine on Fridays and resting on weekends to recover, was wondering if this sounds reasonable.

Lifting routine would consist of Squats, Deadlifts, Cleans, Bench, Dips, Overhand Pull-Ups

 

[DrBdan]

Thanks for the help LZD, I will defiantly take you advice!

One things tho, what would you recommend to replace OHP?

Its just I have had a shoulder injury in the past, and Eric Cressey doesn't recommend overhead movements. I can do them pain free, but just don't want to risk another jury...

You could replace OHP with another day of bench but instead of doing the 5/3/1 sets/reps do 55%x5, 65%x5, 75%x5. Or do a bench variation like close grip bench or incline bench.

I currently do BJJ 3-4 times a week. I'm thinking of going Mon-Thur, running twice a week after practice and maybe adding a decent strength/conditioning routine on Fridays and resting on weekends to recover, was wondering if this sounds reasonable.

Lifting routine would consist of Squats, Deadlifts, Cleans, Bench, Dips, Overhand Pull-Ups

That's a lot of lifts for one day. Would you be able to lift two days/week? That would be the best. You could also do a 2 day split and lift once/week but then you'd only be doing each lift once every two weeks.

 

[Obscure Terror]

If you are training MMA seriously I would advise against the assistance work suggested by PanteraFan, at least initially. I suppose you could work up to it.... but your time might be better spent doing something else.

You should listen to LZD, I worked up to this training volume after a year of running a 3 day split.

I'd recommend doing power clean/power snatches or some kind of power training one day a week. Box jumps or med ball throws and so forth. Useful for athletes.

 

[LZD]

Regarding what you said about the overhead press: Cressey isn't against it per se - only for certain athletes (specifically those with shoulder impingement). This article is a worthy read. Specifically "Adage 7".

If you have shoulder impingement or internally rotated shoulders you should consider incorporating facepulls, external rotations, band pull aparts, prone cobras, YTIWs, and other such movements either as warm-ups or finishers to your lifting sessions.

Additionally, you should only avoid bench and OHP if they cause you pain. However if you determine that your posture increases your risk of injury from pressing movements, keep the volume light and focus on corrective exercises and pulling exercises. 5/3/1 is a pretty good template for that, because you can keep the AMRAPs light (by a few reps) and plug in the assistance that you need.

 

[luckyshot]

It depends on how old you are and what your recovery is like, but I would probably recommend 5x5 two days a week and cutting MMA to three sessions.

If you can work out as much as you want, but you are not actually going to get any stronger unless you have adequate recovery.

 

[BulldogWrestler]

You could replace OHP with another day of bench but instead of doing the 5/3/1 sets/reps do 55%x5, 65%x5, 75%x5. Or do a bench variation like close grip bench or incline bench.



That's a lot of lifts for one day. Would you be able to lift two days/week? That would be the best. You could also do a 2 day split and lift once/week but then you'd only be doing each lift once every two weeks.

what do you suggest for a decent two day split?