2 truths about GSP

[Jeff Goldblum69]

gassed against Nick. Failed TD attempts against him. Etc. The guy is no longer in his prime.

wow.. i guess by that rational jon jones isn't in his prime either.

 

[Balzak]

Your 2 truths sound like opinions to me.

You are right, i didn't said here is 2 facts. An opinion can be true or false. I think mines are true on those 2 points. You don't?

 

[BruceLeeOnTRT]

the above said, he did enough to get the finish V kos. The doctor was a dangerous idiot. He did enough to get the finish V Hardy. Hardy just gambled and accepted damage rather then tapping and it paid off.

Had he got just those two finishes people would not be harping like they are.

gsp is a nice dude, I honestly don't think he would have ever ever finished the submission on hardy, it's not in his nature. Even if he had it fully secure, I bet he'd just apply the pressure hoping the guy would tap, rather then finishing it.and if the guy doesn't tap, he'll just keep him there and win a decision rather then break a bone.

as for kos, I agree on the doctor comment. I cant believe they wanted to stop jones fight in round 5 but let kos keep taking shots to the orbital bone like that. Crazy. Say what you want about kos, the guy took a ton of damage to his skull and never threw in the towel. He may be a heel but he doesnt lack heart.

 

[Drew314]

Two FACTS about GSP.
1) His first name is Georges
2) He is Canadian

Two matters of MY OPINION that I consider fact.
1) He is the GOAT
2) He is P4P #1 right now

One is fact and one is fact to me....

 

[RemoWilliams1a**]

gassed against Nick. Failed TD attempts against him. Etc. The guy is no longer in his prime.

you cannot determine that from one single fight, especially when he showed none of those issues in the Condit fight.

That said I do doubt he is still in his prime. He has been fighting a long time versus very tough comp and age (fight and actual) does take a toll.

 

[Balzak]

GSP has faced the best competition in the history of the UFC. He beat every man he has ever faced and he holds the belt for 6 years in one of the most stacked divisions in the UFC (if not THE most stacked). And you still think he isn't that good just because he doesn't finish people? He dominates monsters like Condit, Kos and the rest of the WW elite. GSP is a freak, one of the best ever, yet people still bitch around cause they can't see how good and technical he is. Kiddo, go watch your new TUF episode and buy another Tapout shirt.

Is that adressed to me? I agree with all you said, just don't understand the last sentence.

 

[tshort**]

The top fighters at WW are all notoriously hard to finish. So GSP goes in there and dominates the hell out of them. Of course he's trying to finish, but why risk all his glory going balls out trying to finish opponents that he most likely will not be able to finish?

The only inexcusable fight was the Dan hardy fight. GSP should have submitted him with ease.

 

[RemoWilliams1a**]

gsp is a nice dude, I honestly don't think he would have ever ever finished the submission on hardy, it's not in his nature. Even if he had it fully secure, I bet he'd just apply the pressure hoping the guy would tap, rather then finishing it.and if the guy doesn't tap, he'll just keep him there and win a decision rather then break a bone.

M'eh.

Comments like this are silly and only garner a fighter hate. It is like those now saying Anderson was not trying.

Go watch the post fight video with GSP and his bjj coach right after the Hardy fight. He was shocked he did not break Hardy's arm or pop it to finish that sub. he DID really want to. Don't fool yourself.


That said if GSP puts any top fighter but Hardy (or Meisha Tate) in that spot they tap out before to avoid expected damage rather then rolling those dice. He had Hardy fully locked out many times and when Hardy chose not to tap and roll the dice had GSP made the proper small adjustments then his arm would have been snapped and there would have been nothing he could do about it. most fighters not names Meisha or hardy voluntarily take that risk.

as for kos, I agree on the doctor comment. I cant believe they wanted to stop jones fight in round 5 but let kos keep taking shots to the orbital bone like that. Crazy. Say what you want about kos, the guy took a ton of damage to his skull and never threw in the towel. He may be a heel but he doesnt lack heart.

yes dumb. Kos career was almost ended do to nerve damage due to the continually head pounding after the orbital was broken and the eye not being as secure in the socket.

 

[Grappling Rules]

Disagree that GSP is passed his prime, but your evidence against the "post Serra myth" is interesting.

 

[Balzak]

Let me ask you a question...

if you were a well rounded fighter, would you rather do brawls and wars and end up sounding like chuck after you retire, or go undefeated for years, make a crapload of cash, take little damage and retire with your brain intact?

Just by asking the question you give the right answer

Call him boring, but the dude is smart and doing what's best for him.

I never called him boring, And no he's not smart, he's the smartest.

Since english is not my first language maybe in the OP I sounded like I was thinking GSP was boring by saying he is past his prime but It's not my opinion, yes I think he is passing his prime but I don't think it's boring at all... It's a great demonstration of dominance

 

[Shonuff1980**]

GSP being "past his prime" is your opinion, not fact. Is this a "if Hendricks knocks GSP out, I called it he's past his prime,told you so" type thing?? He's been playing it safe for a long time, although he has also faced, IMO, some of the toughest comepetition for any champ.

 

[ninja boot]

so if he beats hendricks does that dissolve your theory?

 

[cas5875]

I think fans have more of a misconception of trying to earn title shots vs being the champion.

When you are a contender trying to earn the title shot, you have to be the most impressive fighter. To fans that means dominating and finishing to earn the title shot.

Most fighters philosophy changes once gaining the title.

As a fighter, you need to win and win dramatically to get noticed. St. Pierre was in this boat pre-hughes fight, so to was all of his competition. You have to be more aggressive and look for the finish, because if you are not, a finisher with similar achievements, possibly even less will get the title shot before you.

Once in the title fight, philosophy changes whether you are the champion or the challenger. Your goal is no longer to win and get noticed and earn the title shot, you have already done that, now the goal is to win at all costs to justify being the champion or getting the title shot. You no longer are worried about being more impressive than your contemporary contenders, you are now in a position where they can't leap frog you into a title shot. So you use a more intricate gameplan, you are less aggressive because the worst outcome is to lose and lose badly. You fight more to where you have the best chance to win, not so much to finish.

As the challenger, you have to try harder because its a rare scenario where the challenger has broader fan base appeal than the champion. Therefore any close rounds should by default go to the champion on a "benefit of doubt" ruling. Forrest/Rampage is one of the few examples where the challenger was a bigger face of the organization than the champion was thanks to The Ultimate Fighter. and in turn, Forrest was awarded close rounds that by default should have gone to the reigning champion.

Its the ultimate difference, when you are GSP, you dont have to continuously finish fighters, you just have to continuously win. If you're Johnny Hendricks trying to earn that title shot, you have to continuously be impressive and finish, or you lose the title shot to Carlos Condit, you get put on the back burner and forced to fight a dangerous Condit risking your #1 contendership while Nick Diaz waltz's in out of nowhere for the title shot.

Its a simple difference in mentality of "Geting to the top of the mountain" and "being on top of the mountain".

 

[BiNgeSiN995]

As long as he keeps winning Fuck ITTT!!!!

 

[kpt018]

GSP is 32 and given the number of fights he has had, he is still in his physical prime (although he may be nearing the end of it). That doesn't tell the whole story, because he still looks very explosive, fast and athletic. I haven't seen anything that looks like he's slowing down.

As already stated, he is probably one of if not the smartest fighter (has a great team too, which helps). This can help to mitigate some aging issues.

So I'm not buying #1. Not until our eyes tell us he's slowing down.

As for post Serra, well, GSP himself says that fight changed him. I don't know why we wouldn't believe him, since he hardly even loses rounds since that fight.

 

[Gerald Ford]

I just wish GSP would remake every Jean Claud Van Dam movie

 

[EmeliankoFan1]

Hard to agree with that.

I would argue he's just been facing ridiculously tough competition to finish

Fitch and Shields were both p4p guys on crazy win streaks

Condit & Diaz are guys known for good chins and being very dangerous on the feet and both great submission experts

Koscheck, Alves and Hardy should be the only guys argued GSP should've finished. The rest were just hard to beat guys

I dont agree with the rest are or were hard to beat guys.

Diaz and Condit are men that have been notoriously difficult to finish but the rest were fighters who had been finished by lesser fighters than GSP.

Also fitch is not a p4p fighter

 

[Balzak]

GSP being "past his prime" is your opinion, not fact. Is this a "if Hendricks knocks GSP out, I called it he's past his prime,told you so" type thing?? He's been playing it safe for a long time, although he has also faced, IMO, some of the toughest comepetition for any champ.

Hendricks fight has nothing to do with it. You cannot take only the issue of one fight to declare a fighter has passed his prime. If Hendrick wins it's because he knockout Georges, and anybody can be knocked at anytime of his career, it's not a valid point to declare if a fighter is passing his prime... you have to look back at a trend over many years

There is nothing wrong with passing his prime, I don't know why it should be a shame. It's not a shame it's a pride that he can stay on top while passing his prime.

When we look back at his career, I think it's clear that the prime of GSP was the years around 2008-2009

Canadian Athlete of the Year 2008, 2009, 2010 - Rogers Sportsnet
Fighter of the Year 2009 - Sports Illustrated, World MMA Awards, MMAPayout, Inside MMA, MMAJunkie
Finalist - Best Fighter 2008, 2010, 2011 - ESPY Awards
Most Dangerous Man of the year 2010 - Spike Guys Choice Awards
2008 MMA Fighter of the Year - Black Belt Magazine

 

[Balzak]

I think fans have more of a misconception of trying to earn title shots vs being the champion.

When you are a contender trying to earn the title shot, you have to be the most impressive fighter. To fans that means dominating and finishing to earn the title shot.

Most fighters philosophy changes once gaining the title.

As a fighter, you need to win and win dramatically to get noticed. St. Pierre was in this boat pre-hughes fight, so to was all of his competition. You have to be more aggressive and look for the finish, because if you are not, a finisher with similar achievements, possibly even less will get the title shot before you.

Once in the title fight, philosophy changes whether you are the champion or the challenger. Your goal is no longer to win and get noticed and earn the title shot, you have already done that, now the goal is to win at all costs to justify being the champion or getting the title shot. You no longer are worried about being more impressive than your contemporary contenders, you are now in a position where they can't leap frog you into a title shot. So you use a more intricate gameplan, you are less aggressive because the worst outcome is to lose and lose badly. You fight more to where you have the best chance to win, not so much to finish.

As the challenger, you have to try harder because its a rare scenario where the challenger has broader fan base appeal than the champion. Therefore any close rounds should by default go to the champion on a "benefit of doubt" ruling. Forrest/Rampage is one of the few examples where the challenger was a bigger face of the organization than the champion was thanks to The Ultimate Fighter. and in turn, Forrest was awarded close rounds that by default should have gone to the reigning champion.

Its the ultimate difference, when you are GSP, you dont have to continuously finish fighters, you just have to continuously win. If you're Johnny Hendricks trying to earn that title shot, you have to continuously be impressive and finish, or you lose the title shot to Carlos Condit, you get put on the back burner and forced to fight a dangerous Condit risking your #1 contendership while Nick Diaz waltz's in out of nowhere for the title shot.

Its a simple difference in mentality of "Geting to the top of the mountain" and "being on top of the mountain".

10/10 well written

 

[EmeliankoFan1]

Hendricks fight has nothing to do with it. You cannot take only the issue of one fight to declare a fighter has passed his prime. If Hendrick wins it's because he knockout Georges, and anybody can be knocked at anytime of his career, it's not a valid point to declare if a fighter is passing his prime... you have to look back at a trend over many years

There is nothing wrong with passing his prime, I don't know why it should be a shame. It's not a shame it's a pride that he can stay on top while passing his prime.

When we look back at his career, I think it's clear that the prime of GSP was the years around 2008-2009

Clear ?

Some of you are just throwing around numbers of years and when you think it was.

Your prime is said to be from 30-34 as Bas Ruten has mentioned and your athletic prime is said to be from 21-25. Some fighters peak early as we know and have their prime earlier.

GSP may not be in his athletic prime but its hard to see that he is still not in his prime. Its possible the injury has taken that away but some people like to throw around these numbers and years and when they think he was. The its clear statement is not clear at all and I am guessing a guess. Also your prime is not one year unless you have some injury.