1st Diet reveals poorer than thought physique

Just a few quick notes ... First SeriouslyDead was right as usual, you made good progress.

Next, remember it is all about energy balance. Keto is not the way for everyone ...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9094871
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21621801


Since I saw someone mention "clean" eating I'm going to leave you with some reading because I swing from Alan Aragon's nuts...
http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/the-dirt-on-clean-eating/
http://www.liftbigeatbig.com/2013/12/the-clean-eating-myth-why-insulin-isnt.html

Finally my recommendation is to increase your lifting intensity. The BBB spinoff of 531 that StupidityKills recommended is a great one. LBEB has some good programming available, similarly anything like Starting Strength, 531, or a 5x5 will help.
 
Holy fucking shit people like grndzo are missing the point.

Fuck the diet and exercise advice - whatever this guy is doing is working EXACTLY like it should. He lost 17lbs in 12 weeks - over 1lb a week with a high calorie intake, no overly crazy dieting practices, and a busy schedule. His skinfold measurements showed improvement from his baseline. WHAT HE ACCOMPLISHED IS PERFECT. DO NOT FIX WHAT IS NOT BROKEN.

The only thing he needs to be told is to keep doing what he's doing, with the exception of being more patient. The body will come in time. If you haven't hit your goal in 6-12 months, and stalled out completely, then come back and ask for help.

Fucking iatrogenics, yo.
 
Good progress. I agree with Seriously-Dead.

You are not 10%, my friend. While skin fold tests and electronic scales are reasonably close, they can be off by a lot in some people, and you and I are both examples of this. You're about 15-16% in the picture in the initial post, but you don't look fat or anything.

Try not to get discouraged by this fact. Living healthy is a lifestyle, not a sprint. Fuck, it takes me at least 20 weeks to recover my body composition from binge eating in the fall and winter.
 
Holy fucking shit people like grndzo are missing the point.

Fuck the diet and exercise advice - whatever this guy is doing is working EXACTLY like it should. He lost 17lbs in 12 weeks - over 1lb a week with a high calorie intake, no overly crazy dieting practices, and a busy schedule. His skinfold measurements showed improvement from his baseline. WHAT HE ACCOMPLISHED IS PERFECT. DO NOT FIX WHAT IS NOT BROKEN.

The only thing he needs to be told is to keep doing what he's doing, with the exception of being more patient. The body will come in time. If you haven't hit your goal in 6-12 months, and stalled out completely, then come back and ask for help.

Fucking iatrogenics, yo.

Something wrong with giving advice?
What is wrong with giving possible avenues of improvement?
Did I piss in your Wheaties or something?
What point did I miss or not address? The exact point that you are making?
If I don't just nod my head and say listen to SD?

I am trying to help. Why attack the messenger?
If you have a problem with what I posted please pick it out. I'll defend it with proof, or eat crow.
 
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That is pretty much Keto.

Swap the Dextrose with MCT oil/Coconut oil/Coconut milk & ground flax/chia/Hemp
The Ketones will act as fuel and stimulant.

No, this is wrong. Glucose is the superior fuel for muscle. That's why muscle stores it more so than anything (yes, even fat). Glycogen stores saturate muscle tissue, resulting in increased performance and recovery.

Casein is the wrong protein for Keto. It has a very long digestion time and has the wrong amino acid balance. It converts mainly to sugar long after you finish working out.
Double up on Whey and take it with an enzyme.

Holy crap, lol. This is even wrong by the "keto theory". Whey is much more insulinogenic than casein, meaning it inhibits fat oxidation much more than casein.

In not-fairy-tale land, casein actually has some detriments for PWO recovery, making whey the superior choice - but not for the reasons you stated.

Caffeine is a vasoconstrictor. It constricts arteries and is actually detrimental in a workout routine. Taking 1/2 an asthma pill (Ephedrine HCI, available behind the counter) 6.25MG would fill that role without any side effects. Ephedrine is safe till 100MG in the body so that much is nothing. The Guifenesin is pretty much GRAS and opens up airways in conjunction with the Eph hci.

Caffeine is not a vasoconstrictor. It is a vasodialotor, and many of it's breakdown products (ie: theobromine) are very potent vasodialotors. Wrong again.

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijvm/2010/834060/

Also lol at taking fucking asthma meds to workout. Jesus christ you need to stop posting.

The after workout high carb meal stops fat burning in its tracks for days possibly.
IMO if that is your regular routine it could be detrimental. Mabye switch it up for a heaping of veggies and meat.

WRONG WRONG WRONG. The inhibition of lipolysis due to insulin does not "stop fat burning for days" your body still burns plenty of fat when insulin is pumping out - it just stops secreting it from fat cells. Then your body clears fat from the bloodstream BECAUSE IT IS BURNING IT. This helps actually promote insulin sensitivity in the long wrong, as non-esterified fatty acids (NEFAs) eventually promote insulin resistance. The hallmark of type 2 diabetes is that this insulin inhibition of lipolysis is completely inhibited, which leads to lots of the nasty side effects and lack of glycemic and lipolitic control in diabetics.

You might try daily workouts with less weight. Enough that you get tired but can still work out the next day. Definition comes with density not from tearing up the muscle.
Those burn out style workouts are only useful for literally making the muscle bigger, and won't be useful till density is maxed out.
Daily moderate workouts are much better for fat burning and increasing density.

what.the.fuck. You don't get any results unless you damage muscle. You can damage it from moderate workouts, and from intense ones. As long as you can recover from them, people generally gain even more strength and get just as much hypertrophy doing more intense workouts with maximal weights.


*Disclaimer* This is from a Keto viewpoint. It is not for everyone. It is only my opinion based on what I think I know. None of it is absolute and can be taken piecemeal.

You should just stop posting, and instead take a backseat. You have way too much to learn to pretend that you have worthwhile knowledge to share. At this point, you are doing more harm than good.

Congrats on your recent weight loss, but that does not make you an expert yet.
 
Holy fucking shit people like grndzo are missing the point.

Fuck the diet and exercise advice - whatever this guy is doing is working EXACTLY like it should. He lost 17lbs in 12 weeks - over 1lb a week with a high calorie intake, no overly crazy dieting practices, and a busy schedule. His skinfold measurements showed improvement from his baseline. WHAT HE ACCOMPLISHED IS PERFECT. DO NOT FIX WHAT IS NOT BROKEN.

The only thing he needs to be told is to keep doing what he's doing, with the exception of being more patient. The body will come in time. If you haven't hit your goal in 6-12 months, and stalled out completely, then come back and ask for help.

Fucking iatrogenics, yo.

If I wanted to look my muscular than I do now it wouldn't hurt to look at my program and make some improvements if I thought it made sense. Suggesting he have a look at BBB is hardly bad advice, and he is free to read and disregard it if he so chooses.
 
If I wanted to look my muscular than I do now it wouldn't hurt to look at my program and make some improvements if I thought it made sense. Suggesting he have a look at BBB is hardly bad advice, and he is free to read and disregard it if he so chooses.

Don't worry broseph, we're all good. I wasn't aiming anything at you. BBB is solid stuff.
 
No, this is wrong. Glucose is the superior fuel for muscle. That's why muscle stores it more so than anything (yes, even fat). Glycogen stores saturate muscle tissue, resulting in increased performance and recovery.

Here I'll just repost this from a different thread.
Keto is more muscle Sparing.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=119588841


Keto does not affect endurance.
http://www.examiner.com/article/fitn...ketogenic-diet


Keto does not reduce strength
http://www.jissn.com/content/9/1/34


Holy crap, lol. This is even wrong by the "keto theory". Whey is much more insulinogenic than casein, meaning it inhibits fat oxidation much more than casein.

In not-fairy-tale land, casein actually has some detriments for PWO recovery, making whey the superior choice - but not for the reasons you stated.


Yes it is for the reasons I stated
Look at the Amino acid breakdown.
http://www.nutritionx.co.uk/whey-vs-casein--which-is-best-101-c.asp
Casein has lower Lysine which converts to Carnitine with Vitamin C
Casein has Lower BCAA's
Casein digests slowly blocking nutrients. Slower Digestion.

Casein has a lower ratio of Ketogenic amino acids. This means it has more AA's that convert to sugar.



Caffeine is not a vasoconstrictor. It is a vasodialotor, and many of it's breakdown products (ie: theobromine) are very potent vasodialotors. Wrong again.

No I'm not. Go look it up.
http://www.udel.edu/chem/C465/senior/fall00/Caffeine/Physiological.htm


http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijvm/2010/834060/

Also lol at taking fucking asthma meds to workout. Jesus christ you need to stop posting.

Go look at the dosages and half life of Ephedrine.
Go look up the mental and physiological effects.
Look up the dose I reccomended
Go look up Guifenesin
Go look up Guifenesin toscicity
If you don't know what you are talking about go look shit up.




WRONG WRONG WRONG. The inhibition of lipolysis due to insulin does not "stop fat burning for days" your body still burns plenty of fat when insulin is pumping out - it just stops secreting it from fat cells. Then your body clears fat from the bloodstream BECAUSE IT IS BURNING IT. This helps actually promote insulin sensitivity in the long wrong, as non-esterified fatty acids (NEFAs) eventually promote insulin resistance. The hallmark of type 2 diabetes is that this insulin inhibition of lipolysis is completely inhibited, which leads to lots of the nasty side effects and lack of glycemic and lipolitic control in diabetics.

It has nothing to do with Insulin. It has to do with your liver stopping Glucagon production when you eat carbs. And it won't start Glucagon again till your liver is depleted of Glycogen, which dosent happen till your muscles are depleted.

I did state that could take days. That is dependent on excercise level. He stated he works out 3 times a week. With his rest days yes that could inhibit fat burning far longer than you would think


what.the.fuck. You don't get any results unless you damage muscle. You can damage it from moderate workouts, and from intense ones. As long as you can recover from them, people generally gain even more strength and get just as much hypertrophy doing more intense workouts with maximal weights.

You are misinformed. There is a difference between working out a muscle and tearing the long muscle fibers into short ones. Unless your muscles are already as strong as they can get through regular workouts tearing the fibers does nothing to promote hypertrophy. All you will be left with is short muscle fibers that tire quickly.
http://www.muscleandfitness.com/workouts/workout-tips/bodybuilding-vs-weightlifting-go-heavy

Look up Hypertrophy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_hypertrophy
"Progressive overload is considered the most important principle behind hypertrophy, so increasing the weight, repetitions (reps), and sets will all have a positive impact on growth. Some experts create complex plans that manipulate weight, reps, and sets, increasing one while decreasing the others to keep the schedule varied and less repetitive."

Hypertrophy is the expanding of the muscle sheath. You first build up the muscle then you switch to heavier weights forcing Hypertrophy. Just doing heavy weights will result in slower progress and an excess of short muscle fibers and scar tissue.




Forget what you think you know. Go look shit up.
Provide links/Proof
 
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UPDATE :
2014-05-16205759_zpse0a859c1.jpg

I took this one after a workout one day after the original pic was taken. This is a bit of a separate question but do you think I still have the same composition/work ahead after comparing a flat picture to a "pumped" picture? Does the bf% look the same to you guys with the trained eye?

I'll be honest the argument between grndzro and Seriously-Dead has me confused and not knowing what tweaks I should make. I think for now I will just continue on what I'm doing for the next few days since as S-D mentioned that I have had made good progress in my 12 weeks.

My diet "officially" ends in about 1 week and I'm really hoping to shift gears into something different but the old expression "if it ain't broke don't fix it" has me thinking I shouldn't?
 
I would still say you are ~15% is BF. Just keep doing what you are doing as long as you are still making progress. 17lbs in 12 weeks is a top effort.

If like me you work your butt off and haven't seen any real progress in 3-6 months then you can look at changing it up but as you said, if it ain't broke...
 
nutrition guys become anal pretty quickly in these threads haha
 
I'll be honest the argument between grndzro and Seriously-Dead has me confused and not knowing what tweaks I should make. I think for now I will just continue on what I'm doing for the next few days since as S-D mentioned that I have had made good progress in my 12 weeks.

My diet "officially" ends in about 1 week and I'm really hoping to shift gears into something different but the old expression "if it ain't broke don't fix it" has me thinking I shouldn't?


Focus on tweaking your lifting routine. You are losing about over a lb a week which is a great pace to minimize muscle lose during the diet. Without enough underlying muscle you could end up hitting a low body fat percentage without achieving the "athletic" look you are going for.
 
2 things.
First, OP please stop posting selfies.

Second, grndo you should really learn to check your facts before you start arguing. What are your credentials? Internet connoisseur? Maybe you should take a second and learn why SeriouslyDead's input holds credence while yours does not ... http://dyenutrition.wordpress.com/about/
 
Forget what you think you know. Go look shit up.
Provide links/Proof

First off - only a single one of those links was a scientific paper. The rest were just comical in that you think they're valid.

The gymnast study you posted? Yeah, I've been around the block and I've already written a short synopsis to describe how that study had nothing to do with ketosis at all. You can check it out here: http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/82911763-post37.html

Other than that, I'm not wasting my time arguing with you. Luckily the guy in this thread didn't listen to your advice, and I'll be around in other threads to make sure no one else does either.
 
UPDATE :
I'll be honest the argument between grndzro and Seriously-Dead has me confused and not knowing what tweaks I should make. I think for now I will just continue on what I'm doing for the next few days since as S-D mentioned that I have had made good progress in my 12 weeks.

My diet "officially" ends in about 1 week and I'm really hoping to shift gears into something different but the old expression "if it ain't broke don't fix it" has me thinking I shouldn't?

As Seriously-Dead wrote, you did great in your diet.

Now look to start gaining muscle.

Read this-
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_truth_about_bulking

To get a better understanding of how muscle gain works and a baseline of how much you need to eat. That being said, since you're losing weight at 3k calories a day, I'd imagine CT's calorie advice may not fit you. Just stick ideally a 1lb a week gain of bw.

As for strength training-You never mentioned how much you actually lift besides that you almost hit a 1k total with the three powerlifting lifts.

I'd say drop all the things you do and go back to doing SS. Just don't aim to gain monstrous amounts of weight. 1lb a week is more than fine.

And going to failure is generally bad. Try to avoid it.
 
As Seriously-Dead wrote, you did great in your diet.

Now look to start gaining muscle.

Read this-
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_truth_about_bulking

To get a better understanding of how muscle gain works and a baseline of how much you need to eat. That being said, since you're losing weight at 3k calories a day, I'd imagine CT's calorie advice may not fit you. Just stick ideally a 1lb a week gain of bw.

As for strength training-You never mentioned how much you actually lift besides that you almost hit a 1k total with the three powerlifting lifts.

I'd say drop all the things you do and go back to doing SS. Just don't aim to gain monstrous amounts of weight. 1lb a week is more than fine.

And going to failure is generally bad. Try to avoid it.

Great article, really put a lot of the questions and concerns I have/had into perspective. I just need to keep(and improve) my habits of eating clean and working out regularly and in time it will come.

Thanks for that

....edited:
As for my lifts;
(the PR were from ~2 yrs ago at higher bw)

Deadlift (PR 440#) Last set I pulled was 345x3

Squat (PR 330#) Last time I squat was 235x5

Bench (PR 220#) with flat back, no arch, no "tight lats" max probably only 175. With "bench technique" 210 (maxed a couple weeks ago)

Overhead Press: max 130?

I can do 10 wide grip pull ups.

Pretty weak but know that I'm in the top echelon of flexibility so I don't get the bonus in lifts with an eccentric and concentric phase that nonflexible people get. Also I have a horrible body for any upper body "leveraged" lift, because of a wide flat chest and long arms. (i have a 76.5" reach, at 6'). My ROM is significantly larger than average on all the pressing(and many pulling) movements. (I do realize this is an advantage in dead lifts, long arms lowering my ROM required to complete a rep. This is probably the reason I can do more comparatively)
 
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So, first of all I think you look pretty lean. You're not 10% but it's not like your abs are entirely covered in fat either. There's definition there but I understand you want your abs to be more defined. I'm in the same boat; the difference between us is I'd be tickled as shit to have your stomach right now (nohomo as they say).

I agree with two things that have been said here. One, I've done some reading on BBB and as soon as I determine my 1RMes I will be starting it. From what I've heard and read it's a fantastic way to train. Two, you'd probably be fine with just continuing to let your work "do work". You've made a lot of progress and there's no reason to suspect you're nearing a plateau. I'd let another 12-16 weeks go by and then re-evaluate. Unfortunately 3-4 months from now won't be pool/beach season (which I'm assuming is part of the reason why you wanted abs) but the upside is you'll probably look damn-near just muscle, bone, and ligaments next summer.

In sum: keep up the good work.
 
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