1931's Dracula -- True cinematic masterpiece or overrated wasted opportunity?

Just for the record, I am nearly a puritan when it comes to intoxicants.
This explains why you're not a music fan
I've never actually seen these.:oops:
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The first third is just iconic. Everything at the feast with Errol comming in carrying a boar on his back is just gold. Overall though, I'd almost wish to say that the Douglas Fairbanks silent version is better.
Fairbanks is a blind spot for me. I think I've only seen The Thief of Baghdad

Just the fact that half of that movie is one battle-scene is mind-warpingly epic on its own. Before seeing Nevsky I thought that such scenes where unique to our lifetime but Einstein proved me wrong. The depiction of the metallic Teutons is great as well. That say, I really don't like how comedic the film is. It really contrasts poorly with the serious tone of the rest of the story.
I remember the scene of the German knights throwing babies into fire was a little over the top and somewhat unintentionally comical, but I don't recall any moments that I thought were meant to be humorous.

I really loved Prokofiev's score, and specifically the way the camera movements were coordinated with the music. Apparently some scenes were filmed with the score playing on set, and some parts of the score were written after the cosponsoring scenes were filmed. I never seen a film with a better fusion of visuals with music.

My personal favorite 30's movies though would be...

Gone With the Wind
Fury
King Kong (GOAT martial arts movie:D)
The 39 Steps
And maybe M...

Still haven't seen Gone with the Wind, and can't remember much of M. The rest are great for sure. I love the scene in King Kong were the long necked dinosaur thing pops out of the water and fucks them up.
 
I got nothing interesting to add aside that like many of you I watched it a long time ago and wasn't all that impressed. I have watched most of the other Universal horror films recently and they are some of my favorites, so i'll get back to this one eventually.
 
I love it, I understand it may be difficult to watch for some, but I loved them as a kid and still love them now. Lugosi is a boss, I thought he was a much better actor than some thought, he's incredible in The Black Cat with Karloff in 1934. The Invisible Man is probably my fav, Claude Rains was the man!
 
For to be honest, I don't think I've ever actually seen Lugosi's Dracula. Nosferatu and Coppola's Dracula are both extremely good films though.
 
As I said originally, I think that end products and authors intentions are two diffrent things. The two can overlapp, obviously. But there is nothing that says they have to. Not to mention that filmmaking is a collaborative effort, and that many peoples interpretations and opinions other than the director often tends to worm themselves into the films.

Also, what an director wants to achieve and what he actually achieves tend to be two different things. You'll find many a directors who have a multitude of gripes with their products. Basically, people who created exactly what they intended are a scant crowd indeed.

As a rule of thumb, I'm more intrested in the end product than what the author intended, becuse really, the end product is the only thing that exists in the material world and has something concrete for us to grapple with. While authors intention is something that exists in someone's head, and the question really is if the author communicated his intentions so skillfully and narrowly that you are guided to look at it from his perspective.

I'll explain why I took exception. You said this:

"Everything about this movie is about lulling you into a dormant, dreamy state-of-mind. You are not supposed to be 'alert' while watching it, you are not suppose to watch it like a normal film. You are supposed to allow it to sucker you into it's world, and when your mind is in that state, it's quite mesmerizing."

You make these statements as if they are fact, not your opinion. If you preface all of this with "I FEEL like" then okay, no problem. But when you say that all of this true . . . that it simply IS . . . then it's an objective statement of the director's intent. To say, "You are not supposed to be 'alert' while watching it, you are not supposed to watch it like a normal film," is it to say that when the film was being made, there was an intention for it to only be properly watched and properly understood by audiences who are in a "dreamy state of mind" (which would be quite a strange thing in a time when movies would only be seen in the theater and home video was still decades away).

If, however, this was NOT the director's intent, then you're merely stating how you feel about how the movie is best watched and that's something different.



EDIT: Not to mention, how the hell do we figure out what the author's intent is in the first place? He'd practically have to tell us for us to know for sure.

Don't be difficult. The Fast and the Furious is not about the holocaust. It IS about a young undercover cop who infiltrates a street racing gang. The director is clearly intending to deliver a fun and exciting popcorn experience, directed largely (but certainly not exclusively) toward teens and twenty-somethings.

If most movies were as abstract in their intentions are you're pretending here, then watching them would be pretty difficult going and every movie's meaning would be impossible to interpret.
 
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Apparently in 1998 composer Phillip Glass put together a score for the film. The reviews are mixed to say the least.
I'm kind of torn on this. I think the music sounds amazing, but I prefer the scene without it. Just feels more right.
 
I'm kind of torn on this. I think the music sounds amazing, but I prefer the scene without it. Just feels more right.

I wonder how much of your feeling has to do with the fact that that's the way you've always watched it.

Personally, at least for that scene, I think I prefer it with the music. It breathes a certain life into the scene that I feel is painfully missing otherwise.

I'd have to see the whole film scored to know my ultimate feeling though. From what I've heard, the score sometimes overpowers the dialogue and it's hard to hear what everyone is saying. That's kind of an unforgivable sin.
 
I wonder how much of your feeling has to do with the fact that that's the way you've always watched it.
Well I've only seen the film once, 4-6 years ago. I didn't remember anything about that scene except for I never drink... wine.

But watching the scene as originally seen and then again with the music my initial impression was that it's more atmospheric and creepy without the music
 
I like Phillip Glass, but in very small doses. All of his shit sounds exactly the same. There is a guy named Merlin Mann who did an impression of his music that had me rolling on the floor laughing.
 
Well I've only seen the film once, 4-6 years ago. I didn't remember anything about that scene except for I never drink... wine.

But watching the scene as originally seen and then again with the music my initial impression was that it's more atmospheric and creepy without the music

Interesting. To me, without the music, it honestly just feels like some people on a soundstage making a movie. With the music, it feels like an actual film where I'm able to really immerse myself into the world that's been created.
 
I like Phillip Glass, but in very small doses. All of his shit sounds exactly the same. There is a guy named Merlin Mann who did an impression of his music that had me rolling on the floor laughing.

I have to to say that I had never heard of him until today. How well known is he?

To your point though, the soundtrack he did for Dracula was released. I found it on YouTube and most of the tracks do sound very similar.
 
I have to to say that I had never heard of him until today. How well known is he?

To your point though, the soundtrack he did for Dracula was released. I found it on YouTube and most of the tracks do sound very similar.
He's pretty well known I guess. Kind of an avant garde Brian Eno type except he very much has a specific style as opposed to being a chameleon.

I think he's generally somewhat respected as a musician but would make very few people's list of greatest composers. In my mind he's best as a soundtrack guy but for very specific projects. I would rate Hans Zimmer much higher as a soundtrack guy.
 
He's pretty well known I guess. Kind of an avant garde Brian Eno type except he very much has a specific style as opposed to being a chameleon.

I think he's generally somewhat respected as a musician but would make very few people's list of greatest composers. In my mind he's best as a soundtrack guy but for very specific projects. I would rate Hans Zimmer much higher as a soundtrack guy.

Interesting. I wonder how specifically he got chosen to do the Dracula project.
 
Interesting. I wonder how specifically he got chosen to do the Dracula project.
prolly a combination of being a crossover film composer and known for kind of brooding music.

Back in the olden days, I believe it was actually pretty common for silent films to receive multiple scores. I remember reading the Dreyer's Jeanne D'Arc had a shit ton, and I don't think anyone has sorted out what it actually premiered with.
 
prolly a combination of being a crossover film composer and known for kind of brooding music.

Back in the olden days, I believe it was actually pretty common for silent films to receive multiple scores. I remember reading the Dreyer's Jeanne D'Arc had a shit ton, and I don't think anyone has sorted out what it actually premiered with.

I know that at least for a time silent films were not scored at all. A live pianist would be on location to play some appropriate accompaniment.

Only later were films formally scored and, as you say, it wasn't just one score per film. I know if you buy a Buster Keaton DVD for instance then there's no telling what you're going to get as far as music goes.
 
This explains why you're not a music fan

I still can see blue velvet through my tears...


I remember the scene of the German knights throwing babies into fire was a little over the top and somewhat unintentionally comical, but I don't recall any moments that I thought were meant to be humorous.

I'm mostly thinking about how slapsticky the battle scenes could be. Like how the Russians would crawl in-between the legs of the Germans to get behind them. Or Nevsky's hokey battle orders.

I love the scene in King Kong were the long necked dinosaur thing pops out of the water and fucks them up.

Watching Kong take on that serpent and T-rex made me want to become a pro-wrestling commentator.

I really loved Prokofiev's score, and specifically the way the camera movements were coordinated with the music. Apparently some scenes were filmed with the score playing on set, and some parts of the score were written .

If memory serves, wasn't Nevsky the first time someone edited their film to the rythm of the music, cutting at certain beats and such? Which is how editing is mostly done today.

after the cosponsoring scenes were filmed. I never seen a film with a better fusion of visuals with music

I wouldn't go that far.:p Just from the same time period you have King Kong which I find to be scored fantastically.
 
I'd probably agree that the Spanish version is superior. It's obviously tough to get over not having Legosi as Dracula but the film itself is simply better. They pushed the envelope a bit more and it was exactly what the film needed. Other than Legosi not being Dracula, Dwight Frye is sorely missed. His Renfield is just incredible and it's a noticeable absence if you've seen both versions.
 
Great movie. I also enjoyed Dracula vs. Wolfman. An underrated movie to be sure.
 
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