Law $1 million bond for rioters. Does this help, or make things worse?

[Bloody Pulp]

she was ok, I guess cute enough. Not so cute that my man wasn’t still obsessed with my wife though. She was the most common discussion during rollcall

go on...

 

[nhbbear]

I'm fine with the high bond. Cities burning, people being murdered, stores being looted, etc. These protestors have been getting away with it largely unchallenged and unpunished. Nobody else deserves to do die so protestors can continue looting stores.

Also, if they started protesting high bonds, it wouldn't really be shifting the issue. They are already out there protesting and rioting to gain less accountability for criminal acts. Protesting the bond assigned to someone arrested falls right in line with their goals.

Listen, I would be perfectly happy to see them dipped in honey and fed to badgers, but this is excessive. Again, forcing someone to come up with 50k for a 500k bond or even a 100k bond/full cash meaning they need to come up with the full amount is the same as 1 mil bond

 

[nhbbear]

go on...

well, they just thought I was fighting out of my weight class. I posted pics in the Mayberry pic thread. Most common message to me “are you ok with cucking”

 

[Confucamus]

Listen, I would be perfectly happy to see them dipped in honey and fed to badgers, but this is excessive. Again, forcing someone to come up with 50k for a 500k bond or even a 100k bond/full cash meaning they need to come up with the full amount is the same as 1 mil bond

If there's a risk that protestor will be released and can burn another building down? Complaints about high bond amounts have absolutely zero value, considering the protestors have been showing the country, for months now, that they do not value life or property if they decide it's in the way of their goals.

 

[Broke Lester]

The judge should just order restitution if they are found guilty.

You're a LEO, right? I get that bonds are supposed to deter re-offenses in theory. How effective are they in practice?

How effective is restitution in practice?

 

[whaleshark]

Lebron should still be able to afford the bail money
LebronBailBonds coming soon

 

[Higus]

How effective is restitution in practice?

effective at what?

 

[nhbbear]

If there's a risk that protestor will be released and can burn another building down? Complaints about high bond amounts have absolutely zero value, considering the protestors have been showing the country, for months now, that they do not value life or property if they decide it's in the way of their goals.

I thought these fools only lit a dumpster on fire

 

[Broke Lester]

effective at what?

Effective at being actually paid by those who caused the damage.

 

[Confucamus]

I thought these fools only lit a dumpster on fire

Only 7% of it was on fire.

 

[JDragon]

I think you raise good points. What it comes down to is that being tried for a crime punishes an individual, even if they are ultimately deemed not guilty. Prosecutors in the US justice system already wield enormous power with little oversight. The ability to jail citizens for months at a time on thin charges could be easily abused.

The downside of the bail system is that sometimes criminals who should be jailed are free to wreak havoc on the populace.

It's going to be imperfect either way.

This is true. Imagine being jailed and tried - usually you are found guilty. But if not, and that has to be the presumption, then you will be free to go back to your old life. Only you likely have been fired in the meantime or lost your customers. And your friends, probably. So lots of things that are hard to fix with a compensation that's inevitably too low.

 

[nhbbear]

Only 7% of it was on fire.

it was actually a community service. Someone asked for s’more, but the dumbasses forgot the mellows and graham crackers, though to be honest, there were plenty of crackers around there and a little chocolate

 

[Higus]

Effective at being actually paid by those who caused the damage.

Compared to incarceration? I assume much more effective.

I couldn’t find a lot of data on the subject, mostly because the US justice system is more about retributive justice rather than restorative justice. I think some studies shown that they are more often than not able to compensate the victims when practiced, but I’d have to search around for specific numbers. It's actually a really interesting topic if you want to look into it.

 

[jx820]

One that is of course insignificant to you.

I don't think I've ever said that. You're just making stuff up at this point.

Do you see why people don't like you?

Aww, you're gonna hurt my feelings with that kind of harsh talk.

I doubt that. Your lack of concern for these people, and the constant excuses for the actions of the people who have done this to them would indicate otherwise.

I don't think I've ever excused arson.
I don't know what you mean by my lack of concern for these people. Do you have examples of what youre talking about?

Note that you had to say "arson" specifically, because you couldn't say "rioting" and you knew it. Which again suggests that you don't actually have any concern for the people impacted by this rioting. Even those impacted to the point of death. Detached, sheltered, aloof liberalism like this is rot of Western Civilization, not the savior.

This isn't a conversation about the broader subject of rioting. It's a specific subject of arson started from a comment about US cities burned down. Please try to keep up and don't move the goal posts.

but on the subject of rioting, zero US cities have been lost to rioting.

You keep getting into these weird vague spaces but I think "impacted to the point of death" means people murdered during the riots. Are you looking for some kind of line item breakdown.

• I'm glad David Dorn's murderer appears to have been captured (Stephan Cannon was charged but not convicted).
• I wish the police didn't shoot David McAtee.
• Chris Beaty was particularly tragic since it seems like he was trying to stop a mugging.
• I'm glad Dorian Murrell's shooter was captured.

I don't think I've ever said anything different than the above.

 

[lfd0311]

I don't think I've ever said that. You're just making stuff up at this point.

The tone of your posts and the things you feel it's important to point out indicate that.

Aww, you're gonna hurt my feelings with that kind of harsh talk.

Big Mad

I don't think I've ever excused arson.
I don't know what you mean by my lack of concern for these people. Do you have examples of what youre talking about?

Arson is bad, but it's just arson after all guys. It's not like lives are impacted forever or anything, guys. That's the tone I'm talking about.

This isn't a conversation about the broader subject of rioting. It's a specific subject of arson started from a comment about US cities burned down. Please try to keep up and don't move the goal posts.

No, we were talking about rioting, that's what @thehighking was talking about. He was not talking about random arson. This is yet another example of the tone and inaccurate framing that you are once again guilty of. It's not arson. It's looting and pillaging on a grand scale.

but on the subject of rioting, zero US cities have been lost to rioting.

Exhibit # 1000 of exactly what I'm talking about. Gee guy. What a great point.

You keep getting into these weird vague spaces but I think "impacted to the point of death" means people murdered during the riots. Are you looking for some kind of line item breakdown.

• I'm glad David Dorn's murderer appears to have been captured (Stephan Cannon was charged but not convicted).
• I wish the police didn't shoot David McAtee.
• Chris Beaty was particularly tragic since it seems like he was trying to stop a mugging.
• I'm glad Dorian Murrell's shooter was captured.

I don't think I've ever said anything different than the above.

Just trying to stop a random mugging, right? Just some random, unrelated street crime.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/06/08/14-days-of-protests-19-dead/#5e29dd304de4

And this was just June.

 

[lfd0311]

If you think property and human life are equivalent, maybe.

Please flesh this argument out into a cohesive thought please. Nobody who posts this careless, stupid argument can ever do it.

 

[Higus]

Please flesh this argument out into a cohesive thought please. Nobody who posts this careless, stupid argument can ever do it.

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. I'll make it as simple as possible.

Imagine Billy and his little brother Tommy get in an argument. Billy breaks Tommy's toy truck, so his mama puts him in timeout for 10 minutes. Later, Tommy slits Billy's throat, so his mama puts him on timeout for 10 minutes.
See the issue?

 

[Broke Lester]

Compared to incarceration? I assume much more effective.

I couldn’t find a lot of data on the subject, mostly because the US justice system is more about retributive justice rather than restorative justice. I think some studies shown that they are more often than not able to compensate the victims when practiced, but I’d have to search around for specific numbers. It's actually a really interesting topic if you want to look into it.

That's the thing, in practice, I don't think the victims are being compensated. I'm not positive, but I don't think you can be incarcerated for not being able to pay or refusing to pay, unless it's the government that you are refusing to pay. Hope that the offender has something of value to place a lien on and collect whenever is the best one can do.

 

[lfd0311]

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. I'll make it as simple as possible.

Imagine Billy and his little brother Tommy get in an argument. Billy breaks Tommy's toy truck, so his mama puts him in timeout for 10 minutes. Later, Tommy slits Billy's throat, so his mama puts him on timeout for 10 minutes.
See the issue?

What if Billy had insurance though? It's ok AMIRITE?!?!?!

 

[nhbbear]

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. I'll make it as simple as possible.

Imagine Billy and his little brother Tommy get in an argument. Billy breaks Tommy's toy truck, so his mama puts him in timeout for 10 minutes. Later, Tommy slits Billy's throat, so his mama puts him on timeout for 10 minutes.
See the issue?

how nice was this toy truck?