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Pretty high in my book.
Per my post above, is some consensus forming? Interested in seeing highlights of a lot of these fighters!
Pretty high in my book.
Funaki was better than Frank Shamrock in my book. When Frank did beat him, Funaki had taken two rope escapes against him. And when Frank finally caught him, it was basically just because of a small mistake Funaki made, leaving his foot behind when he transitioned to a toe-hold attack on Frank.it's not correct to talk about the MMA prowess of guys like Funaki (Volk Hank, Ken Shamrock, Suzuki, Takada and so on) because their main focus was in wrestling, promoting and managment and not their "MMA" careers which they had simply out of neccecity
For example0 Takada was said to be a monster in the Gym but is seen by most here as a can... What would happen if Funaki concentrated 100% on MMA and only on MMA? He would have been somewhere as good as Frank Shamrock I think
I don't think Funaki being thought of as a great fighter is anything new. Sherdog's old Power Ratings had him something like number 2 to Sakuraba as far as all-time Japanese fighters for a while. And he was rated number 1 pound-for-pound a few years between '93 and '97 based on Sherdog's ratings as well.Per my post above, is some consensus forming? Interested in seeing highlights of a lot of these fighters!
it's not correct to talk about the MMA prowess of guys like Funaki (Volk Hank, Ken Shamrock, Suzuki, Takada and so on) because their main focus was in wrestling, promoting and managment and not their "MMA" careers which they had simply out of neccecity
For example0 Takada was said to be a monster in the Gym but is seen by most here as a can... What would happen if Funaki concentrated 100% on MMA and only on MMA? He would have been somewhere as good as Frank Shamrock I think
Funaki was better than Frank Shamrock in my book. When Frank did beat him, Funaki had taken two rope escapes against him. And when Frank finally caught him, it was basically just because of a small mistake Funaki made, leaving his foot behind when he transitioned to a toe-hold attack on Frank.
And actually, Han, Suzuki, Shamrock and Funaki trained obsessively. In fact, one of the people who attests to this is Frank Shamrock himself, who says that Funaki was like a mad scientist in the lab when it came to the way he was constantly looking for new ways to improve physically and technically. I wouldn't compare any of those guys to Takada. Those guys are grappling legends whose technical influence is still felt today, often by people who aren't even aware of their influence (Lachlan Giles sells a K-guard DVD, and most aren't aware the K-guard was popularized by Masakatsu Funaki in Pancrase as one of his favored leglock transitions).
I would say if anything distracted a guy like Funaki from his fighting career, it was the fact that he was a dedicated coach even as he was a fighter.
Well, we strongly disagree here.I think that, and related to @manboy<3 point that Funaki, among other pioneers in Pancrase, was mainly focused on wrestling, we can't ignore the drastic change of removing fists to the face in the fght game.
Haven't read the entire thread. Are these names appearing on other posters' lists? I'm new to watching mma compared to those who have been watching many years. Interested in seeing if some consensus is forming about the excellence of fighters. I've heard of the names on your list. Did not watch them live, in their respective primes.
Wow. Destroyed is a strong word. How many people at welterweight have his mixture of submissions and high-level wrestling? The only major difference I would foresee is in weight-cutting techniques, which allow guys that walk around at 200 to fight at 170. But Sakuraba wasn't a stranger to fighting bigger guys anyways and he might actually end up at lightweight or something, if he was really cutting weight in the same way that so many guys do today, given that he clearly has a little extra even at 170."The game" of MMA had to catch up to their skill sets. I think Sakuraba would get destroyed in the current UFC.
Jarl
ok, but if you consider the Pancrasists, Tamura & TK arguably had equal influences...1 Kazushi Sakuraba
2 Kyoji Horiguchi
3 Shinya Aoki
4 Norifumi "KID" Yamamoto
5 Hayato "Mach" Sakurai
I put Kyoji Horiguchi in second place because apart from his other accomplishments he's the Japanese fighter who had the most success in the UFC, it's disappointing he chose not to resign but it's his choice.
I really wanted to put Genki Sudo as he was one of my favorites but I don't think he was top 5 material. While they're not in the top 5 Masakatsu Funaki and Minoru Suzuki deserve mention for their influence on Japanese MMA, the same thing applies to Yuki Nakai who unfortunately had his career cut short due to an eye injury he suffered after his fight with Gerard Gordeau (who did illegal tactics in the fight) made him permanently blind in his right eye.
Yoshida deserves mention for being one of the best Judo practitioners in MMA and Minowa because he's Minowaman.
1 Kazushi Sakuraba
2 Kyoji Horiguchi
3 Shinya Aoki
4 Norifumi "KID" Yamamoto
5 Hayato "Mach" Sakurai
I put Kyoji Horiguchi in second place because apart from his other accomplishments he's the Japanese fighter who had the most success in the UFC, it's disappointing he chose not to resign but it's his choice.
I really wanted to put Genki Sudo as he was one of my favorites but I don't think he was top 5 material. While they're not in the top 5 Masakatsu Funaki and Minoru Suzuki deserve mention for their influence on Japanese MMA, the same thing applies to Yuki Nakai who unfortunately had his career cut short due to an eye injury he suffered after his fight with Gerard Gordeau (who did illegal tactics in the fight) made him permanently blind in his right eye.
Yoshida deserves mention for being one of the best Judo practitioners in MMA and Minowa because he's Minowaman.
I don't know about that. Funaki was an influence on Tamura himself, with the concept of kaitentai, which he basically passed onto Tamura.ok, but if you consider the Pancrasists, Tamura & TK arguably had equal influences...
Naturally talkin´about their influence on JMMA´s evolution [skill sets & Scorin´Systems] through the Rings Experiment.I don't know about that. Funaki was an influence on Tamura himself, with the concept of kaitentai, which he basically passed onto Tamura.
One of the guys with the slickest skills in RINGs was Minoru Tanaka. Beautiful leglock entries but also great incorporation of open-guard and half-guard transitions into leg attacks in his mat-work. His record in RINGs doesn't reflect his skill at all. He appeared to have some trouble with pure pressure wrestlers and the rope-escapes also robbed him of some submission wins.Naturally talkin´about their influence on JMMA´s evolution [skill sets & Scorin´Systems] through the Rings Experiment.
Sure, was not the only one, tho... Others are underrated & forgotten, the likes of Haseman for instance...One of the guys with the slickest skills in RINGs was Minoru Tanaka. Beautiful leglock entries but also great incorporation of open-guard and half-guard transitions into leg attacks in his mat-work. His record in RINGs doesn't reflect his skill at all. He appeared to have some trouble with pure pressure wrestlers and the rope-escapes also robbed him of some submission wins.
Definitely not the only one. Lots of talented, forgotten competitors in RINGs. And then there were their amateur competitions and their university competitions. Tons of guys who were highly skilled that we will probably never know about.Sure, was not the only one, tho...