【Top5】Greatest Japanese Fighters in MMA history

it's not correct to talk about the MMA prowess of guys like Funaki (Volk Hank, Ken Shamrock, Suzuki, Takada and so on) because their main focus was in wrestling, promoting and managment and not their "MMA" careers which they had simply out of neccecity

For example0 Takada was said to be a monster in the Gym but is seen by most here as a can... What would happen if Funaki concentrated 100% on MMA and only on MMA? He would have been somewhere as good as Frank Shamrock I think
 
it's not correct to talk about the MMA prowess of guys like Funaki (Volk Hank, Ken Shamrock, Suzuki, Takada and so on) because their main focus was in wrestling, promoting and managment and not their "MMA" careers which they had simply out of neccecity

For example0 Takada was said to be a monster in the Gym but is seen by most here as a can... What would happen if Funaki concentrated 100% on MMA and only on MMA? He would have been somewhere as good as Frank Shamrock I think
Funaki was better than Frank Shamrock in my book. When Frank did beat him, Funaki had taken two rope escapes against him. And when Frank finally caught him, it was basically just because of a small mistake Funaki made, leaving his foot behind when he transitioned to a toe-hold attack on Frank.

And actually, Han, Suzuki, Shamrock and Funaki trained obsessively. In fact, one of the people who attests to this is Frank Shamrock himself, who says that Funaki was like a mad scientist in the lab when it came to the way he was constantly looking for new ways to improve physically and technically. I wouldn't compare any of those guys to Takada. Those guys are grappling legends whose technical influence is still felt today, often by people who aren't even aware of their influence (Lachlan Giles sells a K-guard DVD, and most aren't aware the K-guard was popularized by Masakatsu Funaki in Pancrase as one of his favored leglock transitions).

I would say if anything distracted a guy like Funaki from his fighting career, it was the fact that he was a dedicated coach even as he was a fighter.
 
Per my post above, is some consensus forming? Interested in seeing highlights of a lot of these fighters!
I don't think Funaki being thought of as a great fighter is anything new. Sherdog's old Power Ratings had him something like number 2 to Sakuraba as far as all-time Japanese fighters for a while. And he was rated number 1 pound-for-pound a few years between '93 and '97 based on Sherdog's ratings as well.

There are a number of Funaki highlights out there:


 
This thread needs a lot more Rumina Sato in it. Dude was winning matches with flying inverted triangles.....in 1995.

 
Also, I should mention that Sato defeated John Lewis in an amazing performance at VTJ 97, submitting a BJJ blackbelt. He also pulled out the rubber guard in that fight, which was the first time in MMA history, AFAIK.
 
it's not correct to talk about the MMA prowess of guys like Funaki (Volk Hank, Ken Shamrock, Suzuki, Takada and so on) because their main focus was in wrestling, promoting and managment and not their "MMA" careers which they had simply out of neccecity

For example0 Takada was said to be a monster in the Gym but is seen by most here as a can... What would happen if Funaki concentrated 100% on MMA and only on MMA? He would have been somewhere as good as Frank Shamrock I think
Funaki was better than Frank Shamrock in my book. When Frank did beat him, Funaki had taken two rope escapes against him. And when Frank finally caught him, it was basically just because of a small mistake Funaki made, leaving his foot behind when he transitioned to a toe-hold attack on Frank.

And actually, Han, Suzuki, Shamrock and Funaki trained obsessively. In fact, one of the people who attests to this is Frank Shamrock himself, who says that Funaki was like a mad scientist in the lab when it came to the way he was constantly looking for new ways to improve physically and technically. I wouldn't compare any of those guys to Takada. Those guys are grappling legends whose technical influence is still felt today, often by people who aren't even aware of their influence (Lachlan Giles sells a K-guard DVD, and most aren't aware the K-guard was popularized by Masakatsu Funaki in Pancrase as one of his favored leglock transitions).

I would say if anything distracted a guy like Funaki from his fighting career, it was the fact that he was a dedicated coach even as he was a fighter.

I think that, and related to @manboy<3 point that Funaki, among other pioneers in Pancrase, was mainly focused on wrestling, we can't ignore the drastic change of removing fists to the face in the fght game.

I don't think it's fair to say Funaki was in the level or even better than Frank Shamrock as a fighter watching the way Funaki reacted to opponents charguing at him with strikes, no adequate footwork whatsoever, retreating in straigh line - almost literally panicking at times - with barely any striking defense or counter-striking prowess to speak about. Sometimes his defense to these attacks consisted on literally falling flat to the floor taking advantage of the absence of GnP.

Meanwhile we see Shamrock - at his peak - being a very composed standup fighter even when dealing with power punchers who are allowed to punch him in the face standing - and most importantly in the ground - and having legit striking weapons to win the fight that way.

If we want to acknowledge Funaki as one of the best submission wrestler ever from Japan, and of course as a leading pioneer of MMA as a whole and particularly coaching, cool. But giving him the same credit as a fighter - in the broadest sense of the term - as Frank Shamrock or other Japanese MMA fighters who came after him I dont think is that fair.

I mean we should almost create separate lists in such case, imho, because of course Funaki needs to be remembered and acknowledged for his role in the development of the sport and also how sweet were his grappling skills.
 
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I think that, and related to @manboy<3 point that Funaki, among other pioneers in Pancrase, was mainly focused on wrestling, we can't ignore the drastic change of removing fists to the face in the fght game.
Well, we strongly disagree here.

First off, it is just wrong to say Funaki was focused on wrestling. Even in the UWF and PWFG, though they were putting on matches, their focus was arguably more on honing their fighting skills than anything else, which is why they eventually broke off to form Pancrase. And when they formed Pancrase, that became their sole focus. And as far as the lack of closed fists helping Funaki, the opposite is true, for a couple reasons.

For one thing, like Suzuki, he constantly found himself in dominant positions on the ground where he could have utilized ground and pound but for the gentleman's agreement. For another, once Funaki actually competed in rules that allowed for closed-fist strike, we were able to witness just how lethal his ground-and-pound could potentially be. It is very likely that, with closed fists and no ground and pound prohibitions, Suzuki, Funaki and possibly Takahashi would have all been even more dominant than they otherwise were.

Also, as far as Frank Shamrock, Frank himself thinks Funaki was light years ahead of him and that his rematch victory was only due to Funaki deliberately leaving his foot behind. I don't think it was deliberate, I think it was just a mistake, but Frank's opinion certainly counts for more than mine. What also counts more than any opinion is how Funaki actually did against top strikers of his day, including Semmy Schilt, Bas Rutten, Maurice Smith, Guy Mezger and Yuki Kondo; his record is 9-4 which doesn't indicate someone with an inability to successfully deal with strikes. He had the wrestling ability to take down a World Cup bronze medalist in Yoshiki Takahashi and as evidenced even against Guy Mezger in his third fight where he was apparently severely ill, he had almost impeccable timing to his entries and takedowns; some of his standing entries into submission attacks were timed directly off of strikes by Mezger for instance. And his use of strikes in setting on his spinning knee-bar against Yanagisawa was just a thing of beauty and just about a perfect blending of striking and submissions on the ground.
 
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Haven't read the entire thread. Are these names appearing on other posters' lists? I'm new to watching mma compared to those who have been watching many years. Interested in seeing if some consensus is forming about the excellence of fighters. I've heard of the names on your list. Did not watch them live, in their respective primes.

I chose all of the people on my list based on their performance and just being "ahead of their time". "The game" of MMA had to catch up to their skill sets. I think Sakuraba would get destroyed in the current UFC. I think Yuka Tsuji would be a mediocre, grappling-centric straw weight in the currnet UFC straw weight division. But, when they were active, these fighters just dominated, especially Miku and Megu. You just felt like no one could beat them.

Jarl
 
"The game" of MMA had to catch up to their skill sets. I think Sakuraba would get destroyed in the current UFC.

Jarl
Wow. Destroyed is a strong word. How many people at welterweight have his mixture of submissions and high-level wrestling? The only major difference I would foresee is in weight-cutting techniques, which allow guys that walk around at 200 to fight at 170. But Sakuraba wasn't a stranger to fighting bigger guys anyways and he might actually end up at lightweight or something, if he was really cutting weight in the same way that so many guys do today, given that he clearly has a little extra even at 170.

I don't know. Sakuraba is 50 and holding guys like Gilbert Burns and Daniel Strauss to draws in grappling matches. That's pretty amazing. The man is special. More special than people sometimes seem to realize.
 
1 Kazushi Sakuraba
2 Kyoji Horiguchi
3 Shinya Aoki
4 Norifumi "KID" Yamamoto
5 Hayato "Mach" Sakurai

I put Kyoji Horiguchi in second place because apart from his other accomplishments he's the Japanese fighter who had the most success in the UFC, it's disappointing he chose not to resign but it's his choice.

I really wanted to put Genki Sudo as he was one of my favorites but I don't think he was top 5 material. While they're not in the top 5 Masakatsu Funaki and Minoru Suzuki deserve mention for their influence on Japanese MMA, the same thing applies to Yuki Nakai who unfortunately had his career cut short due to an eye injury he suffered after his fight with Gerard Gordeau (who did illegal tactics in the fight) made him permanently blind in his right eye.

Yoshida deserves mention for being one of the best Judo practitioners in MMA and Minowa because he's Minowaman.
 
1 Kazushi Sakuraba
2 Kyoji Horiguchi
3 Shinya Aoki
4 Norifumi "KID" Yamamoto
5 Hayato "Mach" Sakurai

I put Kyoji Horiguchi in second place because apart from his other accomplishments he's the Japanese fighter who had the most success in the UFC, it's disappointing he chose not to resign but it's his choice.

I really wanted to put Genki Sudo as he was one of my favorites but I don't think he was top 5 material. While they're not in the top 5 Masakatsu Funaki and Minoru Suzuki deserve mention for their influence on Japanese MMA, the same thing applies to Yuki Nakai who unfortunately had his career cut short due to an eye injury he suffered after his fight with Gerard Gordeau (who did illegal tactics in the fight) made him permanently blind in his right eye.

Yoshida deserves mention for being one of the best Judo practitioners in MMA and Minowa because he's Minowaman.
ok, but if you consider the Pancrasists, Tamura & TK arguably had equal influences...
 
1 Kazushi Sakuraba
2 Kyoji Horiguchi
3 Shinya Aoki
4 Norifumi "KID" Yamamoto
5 Hayato "Mach" Sakurai

I put Kyoji Horiguchi in second place because apart from his other accomplishments he's the Japanese fighter who had the most success in the UFC, it's disappointing he chose not to resign but it's his choice.

I really wanted to put Genki Sudo as he was one of my favorites but I don't think he was top 5 material. While they're not in the top 5 Masakatsu Funaki and Minoru Suzuki deserve mention for their influence on Japanese MMA, the same thing applies to Yuki Nakai who unfortunately had his career cut short due to an eye injury he suffered after his fight with Gerard Gordeau (who did illegal tactics in the fight) made him permanently blind in his right eye.

Yoshida deserves mention for being one of the best Judo practitioners in MMA and Minowa because he's Minowaman.

If it's by UFC accomplishments Okami is definitely right up there with Horiguchi, although I don't think he is top5 overall
 
when Kanako Murata wins the uFC belt you nerds better be putting her up there
 
ok, but if you consider the Pancrasists, Tamura & TK arguably had equal influences...
I don't know about that. Funaki was an influence on Tamura himself, with the concept of kaitentai, which he basically passed onto Tamura.
 
I don't know about that. Funaki was an influence on Tamura himself, with the concept of kaitentai, which he basically passed onto Tamura.
Naturally talkin´about their influence on JMMA´s evolution [skill sets & Scorin´Systems] through the Rings Experiment.
 
Naturally talkin´about their influence on JMMA´s evolution [skill sets & Scorin´Systems] through the Rings Experiment.
One of the guys with the slickest skills in RINGs was Minoru Tanaka. Beautiful leglock entries but also great incorporation of open-guard and half-guard transitions into leg attacks in his mat-work. His record in RINGs doesn't reflect his skill at all. He appeared to have some trouble with pure pressure wrestlers and the rope-escapes also robbed him of some submission wins.
 
One of the guys with the slickest skills in RINGs was Minoru Tanaka. Beautiful leglock entries but also great incorporation of open-guard and half-guard transitions into leg attacks in his mat-work. His record in RINGs doesn't reflect his skill at all. He appeared to have some trouble with pure pressure wrestlers and the rope-escapes also robbed him of some submission wins.
Sure, was not the only one, tho... Others are underrated & forgotten, the likes of Haseman for instance...

My narrative is more ´bout those who carried the Org., an Org. which was essential to MMA´s evolution in terms of skill sets & Scorin´Systems.
 
Sure, was not the only one, tho...
Definitely not the only one. Lots of talented, forgotten competitors in RINGs. And then there were their amateur competitions and their university competitions. Tons of guys who were highly skilled that we will probably never know about.
 
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