Social ♕Rules of Engagement for the Wall♕

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Lord Commander Palis, Dec 12, 2016.

?

Would you approve of Trump using emergency powers to build his wall?

Poll closed Jan 18, 2019.
  1. I'm a Trump supporter and I would support using emergency powers

    25.9%
  2. I'm a Trump supporter and I would not support use of emergency powers

    5.2%
  3. I'm not really a Trump supporter, but I would support him using emergency powers

    5.2%
  4. I'm not a Trump supporter. I don't support him using emergency powers to build a wall.

    63.8%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. helltoupee

    helltoupee Black Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    7,010
    Likes Received:
    7,620
    Location:
    on one wheel
    So you recognize that the MIC has a direct monetary interest in promoting conflict in the ME, but completely overlook the fact that ICE and CBP also have an interest in sensationalizing a problem that their livelihoods depend on?

    I hate to break it to you, but the fear mongering and bloodlust that sold so many people on wars in the ME, is the exact same thing that is happening with the so-called 'immigration crisis'.

    I'm sure you, like many conservatives, will deny being big proponents of Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom now, but the truth of the matter is that we heard all these same arguments from people like you at the time - all you have to do is replace the word 'terrorists' with 'immigrants'. The wall is an idiotic idea. As has been mentioned to you several times over - most illegal immigrants are Visa overstays, and the majority of drugs get into this country through the southern border at ports of entry.
     
    Sohei and SIRGAY HARITONOB! like this.
  2. zebby23

    zebby23 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2017
    Messages:
    12,662
    Likes Received:
    18,251
    No, his intent was he thought he could bully Mexico into paying for the wall. When he had his first meeting with the Mexican president he cowardly didn’t even bring it up. If Mexico pays for the wall I’m 100% on board. I personally would rather see my tax dollars go towards starving children, homelessness, veterans and clean drinking water for Flint, Michigan. Trump never thought this through and this is the result
     
    Sohei likes this.
  3. hillelslovak87

    hillelslovak87 Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Messages:
    25,982
    Likes Received:
    38,340
    Location:
    ..............
    Normal people look in the mirror all along. That's how we assess ourselves, learn and grow. This is something your boy Donald has never done, and it attracts likewise buffoons.

    You've got a president proposing a wall built with tariff steel along our border, which will be a gigantic financial boondoggle for Trump's vanity.
     
  4. Philo-Publius

    Philo-Publius Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2014
    Messages:
    12,192
    Likes Received:
    10,942
    Naah.

    Too bad Obama didn't fix any of those social issues for you.
     
  5. zebby23

    zebby23 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2017
    Messages:
    12,662
    Likes Received:
    18,251
    Hahahaha no argument. But but but Obama. Face it, you got conned lol

    It will be fun watching all the investigations over the next 2 years though. Trump Jr about to get indicted
     
    Sohei likes this.
  6. Philo-Publius

    Philo-Publius Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2014
    Messages:
    12,192
    Likes Received:
    10,942
    We all got conned...by Obama.
     
    grizzard2bid likes this.
  7. grizzard2bid

    grizzard2bid Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2018
    Messages:
    5,773
    Likes Received:
    4,726
    Location:
    Returning some video tapes
    You bundled a lot of incorrect analogies and assumptions into one post. ICE and MIC only share tthe same number of letters in their name abbreviation. Immigration Custom Enforcement is a government agency. MIC is a conglomerate of equipment manufacturing and services that are independent government and private contractors. MIC doesn't get their salaries from US government, but contracts and can vary greatly. More wars = more weapon orders/service orders= more profit. For ICE wall would mean easier and safer border work and actually lower workload which wouldn't increase their budget. The example of ICE and MIC is as retarded as you could choose. Perhaps a better, but still poor analogy would be DEA and weed criminalization. Their budget would increase if they would bust more pot dealers, so it would help, whereas wall would simply reduce ICE's workload and make it safer for Broder Patrol to patrol the border. You see how dumb that analogy now sounds?

    I'm not a conservative, but always considered myself liberal leaning and libertarian. The democratic party drifted so far into progressivism, but that doesn't make me any less liberal. I was a lifelong democrat until about 2013-2014 when the crap with Syria/Libia unraveled. I saw DNC is just another RNC warmongering piece of trash with same disgusting political hookers.
     
  8. grizzard2bid

    grizzard2bid Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2018
    Messages:
    5,773
    Likes Received:
    4,726
    Location:
    Returning some video tapes
    We have to acknowledge Obama conned voters, otherwise we will be running in circles. Trump was a backlash against Obama's failure to deliver on his promises of social-economic equality and stirring more crap up in the ME then when he took office(and that wasn't an easy task given Dubya's massive fckups).
     
  9. K1levelgrappler

    K1levelgrappler Black Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2015
    Messages:
    5,023
    Likes Received:
    14,094
    I want at least some of the wall to get built so the next president can demolish it as part of erasing Trump’s legacy.
     
    zebby23, woodguyatl and MicroBrew like this.
  10. louiscyphere

    louiscyphere Green Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2018
    Messages:
    1,092
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    If it doesn’t happen they get their money back.
     
  11. louiscyphere

    louiscyphere Green Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2018
    Messages:
    1,092
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Great post
     
  12. MicroBrew

    MicroBrew Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    32,763
    Likes Received:
    23,759
    Obama was anti MidEast intervention. He didn't want to get involved in Libya or Syria, he was pressured into it by Neoconservatives, Hillary, the Brits, French, Israel, UAE, Saudi , Turkey. He still managed to keep the US out of direct conflict with Assad and didn't depose him like soo many domestic, Western and MidEast powers wanted.

    Plus Obama passed that nuclear deal with Iran, which led to a slight thawing of relations. Trump then comes along and voids it. While Trump hasn't intervened to depose Assad, he did pick Bolton as his Nat Sec. Adviser. If ever there is a more rabid interventionist than Bolton I don't know.
     
  13. grizzard2bid

    grizzard2bid Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2018
    Messages:
    5,773
    Likes Received:
    4,726
    Location:
    Returning some video tapes
    What kind of excuse is that for a president? Buck stops at his desk. If someone in your administration is pushing an agenda you're not happy with, you fire them- which is why Trump's turnover ratio is sky high. They started the mess with Libia followed by Hillary's patented line "we came, we saw, he died". Nice work! Then Obama admin kept propping up "Freedom fighters" in Syria to topple Assad. Then ISIS spread like cancer so much so that they actually established "caliphate" and started to sell oil, slave trade,making entertainment videos of cutting off heads on the internet etc... It was spiraling into a complete chaos. All because of Obama's cancerous neo-con driven foreign policy combined with his "hands off approach". So they'd arm and fund terrorists, and let them flourish.
    The Iran Deal was much ado about nothing, but it was a nice FU to Israel, but that's about it.
     
  14. MicroBrew

    MicroBrew Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    32,763
    Likes Received:
    23,759
    Obama was never as aggressive or forcefull as Trump in putting his foot down and demanding things be done his way. No recent President has been; Trump is unique in this.

    But even Trump is limited in what he can do. Obama still had to work with Congress, with other members of his party, try and maintain strategic relationships with Israel, UK, France, Saudi, UAE , Turkey . Considering all these pressure and limitations on him, it's to his credit he did not bend to their will and depose Assad.

    You are very wrong if you think Obama pushed a Neocon agenda. Trump is more Neocon than Obama. The Neocons and their GOP lackeys were very critical of Obama's stance on Ghaddafi, i.e. they wanted him to bomb Ghaddafi sooner. You may recall the GOP / Neocons derided Obama as "leading from behind" be cause he would not go into Libya forcefully and sooner. Obama also pushed through the Iran deal. So how do all these things make him a Neocon enabler? The Obama administration was a break from Neocon MidEast warmongering. And now they have managed to come back and insert themselves into the Trump admin.
     
  15. grizzard2bid

    grizzard2bid Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2018
    Messages:
    5,773
    Likes Received:
    4,726
    Location:
    Returning some video tapes
    You contradicted your earlier post. Obama let neo-cons have his way with him, just like he let Wall Street have his way with him and taxpayers in midst of financial panic. Look at end results- Obama came to office and Obama left office- what happened in the Middle East between that time frame. Trump has been plenty urged to bomb Assad and he never caved and they stopped funding "freedom fighters". ISIS is in ruins vs. when Trump was sworn in.

    Just because Obama was a weak president who didn't firmly stand up to neo-cons desire for nation-building, it isn't an excuse.
     
  16. The Polish Pounder

    The Polish Pounder Excellence of execution belt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2007
    Messages:
    23,559
    Likes Received:
    55,274
    Stop saying you've gotten death threats, or I'll kill you!
     
    7437 likes this.
  17. MicroBrew

    MicroBrew Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    32,763
    Likes Received:
    23,759
    You don't recall Trump lobbing cruise missiles at Assad?

    Obama did resist Neocon pressure. If Romney, McCain or Hillary were president, they would have bombed Assad directly, replacing him with those 'rebels' . Obama resisted the establishment on the major issue, but he had to give in a bit also. As president he can't just do anything he wants, he has limitations and before Trump no president could just thumb their nose at everyone in both parties. Trump moved the US embassy to Jerusalem , voided the Iran deal and picked Bolton; how are any of these things not Neoconservative wants?

    ISIS is in ruins not because of Trump. They were on the way out before he became President. It was a coalition effort by the Kurds, the Iranians, the Iraqis, the US , Russians and Syrians that uprooted ISIS. Trump simply came in after things were effectively wrapped up.
     
  18. zebby23

    zebby23 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2017
    Messages:
    12,662
    Likes Received:
    18,251
    Nah, the whole leave your door unlocked analogy is stupid. We have border security which is the lock and people can still get across just like they can break into your house.

    Sounds like a cute analogy but it’s stupid and makes no sense. Btw if someone came to my door bleeding, or if it was a child who was starving I would open it just like we should open our borders for these people
     
  19. helltoupee

    helltoupee Black Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    7,010
    Likes Received:
    7,620
    Location:
    on one wheel
    The analogy is only "retarded" if you didn't understand it.

    My point was that people have a tendency to aggrandize problems that their livelihoods depend upon. Simply using ICE and CPB's opinion as the sole metric for the necessity of the wall is like asking the DEA if they think drugs should be legalized. Of course ICE is going to say that they think a wall is necessary, because it lends legitimacy to their jobs.

    Further, you skipped over the part of my analogy that is more cogent to my overall point - there is no "immigration crisis", just as there was no WMD crisis in Iraq. It's pandering to people's fears, and represents a solution that is half-baked and costly. Unless you have reliable data that points to such, then I'm not buying it. All of the hyperbole will eventually appear just as short-sighted and stupid as "Iraq was the direct cause of 9/11" or "Iraq has WMDs". Pointing to outliers (such as "illegal immigrant kills cop") and expecting a wall to completely eradicate that problem, or attempting to argue that we have an "immigration crisis" based on aberrations, is for simpletons. Illegal immigrants by and large follow the law, as a demographic, more than the general population, because they don't want to get caught and deported. This might be news to you, but the vast majority of illegals come here out of economic desperation. They just want to work and live quietly, like the majority of regular people.

    The bad guys will always find a way in. No wall is going to stop that, and fuck me if I'm going to get stuck with the bill, especially after a tax act that directs even more of the revenue burden from the rich onto the middle class.

    The funny part about all of this is the people who are large proponents of the wall don't even live in cities that have large populations of illegals.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  20. grizzard2bid

    grizzard2bid Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2018
    Messages:
    5,773
    Likes Received:
    4,726
    Location:
    Returning some video tapes
    You're struggling to make a coherent argument for your point. I get your point, but you've made a terrible argument for it and tried to fall back on my own example of another bad analogy of DEA and drugs. DEA job demand and arrests will increase with tougher laws on weed. ICE's job would actually decrease with stopping some
    16,658 family member in September, breaking a record set in June 2014.https://www.motherjones.com/politic...of-families-are-crossing-the-southern-border/

    That's over 100k/year. If the wall is built that number should decrease and so would ICE's job demand.

    The amount of money spent apprehending 100k/people/year, housing, processing and prosecuting them puts a huge financial burden on "taxpayers" since you're so concerned about taxes going to wrong things. We are spending according to very modest estimates $200/day on adult detainee(and more on kids) and currently housing 50k detainees. That's 3.5 BILLION/year. I want to hear you rage and scream about that because that's an absurd bill for US citizens to pay for people who shouldn't be here.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/20/cost-us-immigrant-detention-trump-zero-tolerance-tents-cages.html

    Now, if you want a good analogy, here is one to counter your illogical approach of "illegals are going to come in anyway, so why bother". If your car is losing power and fuel economy because of low oil level, but also has a minor exhaust leak, which also depletes the power and you currently have only enough money for exhaust leak, but because you feel you will lose more power due to low oil levels, you won't even bother to fix an exhaust leak. That kind of thinking is in the realm of insanity.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.