“You Cannot Hire American Here”

Then we bring them in. LEGALLY.

And we go back to my other post that you laughed at. You know? The one where we encourage AMERICANS to not being selfish solitary non binary fuck ups who can't hold down relationships other then with pet cats?

So you're going to spend money to remove them then just bring them back in?

<Dany07>
 
But there is a clear market need for more workers.. The American economy has been operating at or very near to full employment for your entire life.

The demand for labor is econ 101.

NOT TRUE

After the huge ice raid in Mississippi the trying to get the jobs WERE AMERICANS!!!!! And they came because better pay.

https://www.apnews.com/a2f7d00232bd408285f2f7e9c041cf1e


https://www.clarionledger.com/story...-fair-forest-who-how-many-applied/1976033001/

Get rid of illegals, build that f’ing wall, and pay the American worker.

I've worked in a handful of restaurants over the years and that doesn't sound like hyperbole at all. A lot of people really do show up, work a single shift, ask for an advance and bail. With or without the advance. It's common for dishwasher/busboy positions, but I've seen it with cooks and even people hired as head cooks/kitchen managers.

Had one guy come in after a week, drunk and sneaking out the door to do blow. He was fired as soon as the owner showed up and demanded his week's pay in cash. Damn shame. He was a talented chef with a good resume, but it explains why all of his high end jobs were only a few months long and up and down the coast.

So cheap labor.

Got it.

I hear ya buddy, I can say all the places I've worked with illegals, I never worked at a place that underpaid them. Especially considering a lot of illegals are in the system using dead peoples social security cards.

The system is clearly broken though, but throughout history the poor immigrant takes the blame instead of the rich man filling his coffers.

This is the crux of the issue, at least with respect to the labor market dynamics when discussed with immigration. Unfortunately, I don't have a solution. If the illegal labor market were removed, how much would wages rise to compensate and how much would prices rise in response to said wage increase?





You can just type the words shitty and ass. I don't think anyone is going to be offended.

Honest question....How much do you think it would take for a Young American to do this job for around 10 hours a day?

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BTW as of now, all Agricultural workers(legal/illegal) only get paid over time after 9.5 hours in a day or after 55 hours in a week......Unlike the regular workers who get overtime after 8 hours/40 hours.

https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Overtime-for-Agricultural-Workers-FAQ.html

(Such bullshit that they don't get paid overtime like everybody else...and this is california, the pay/overtime bullshit is much worse in other places)

Every end of summer in Ontario Canada as a young person you always had an option to go grab a job picking grapes in the farmers fields as the end of the season came for the local wine producer.

Jobs typically paid between $12-25/hr depending, and that was 30 years ago, today I just googled they pay $15-40/hr depending. But they need you minimum 40 hrs per week and often 50-60. And you get time and half for over time.

Despite the Niagara, St Catherines corridor of Ontario being one of the highest in the province for unemployment level and payouts, the farmers could not entice these people to work the farms. to get in at ground level and maybe work their way up. If they did there was constant complaint about local labour reliability and 'quitting' as many here do not like physical labour work.

So every summer the farmers would then bring in loads of migrant workers from Jamaica and Mexico to pick the grapes. You would see the fields full of them. Before you can do that under Canadian law you must prove you have posted the legal job (with appropriate pay) and that there is a genuine shortage of Canadians to take those jobs.

For the Jamaican and Mexican laborers this was an easy job. Cooler climate and they were used to manual labour, farm type jobs.

So what do you do when you cannot entice, even unemployed people to take the jobs?

Some will ignorantly say just keep raising the wages and eventually they will be willing to do that type of work. But the Canadian wine exists within a very tight price band and has very little room to move up. Its not considered a premium wine and as such if it goes above a certain price, it simply will not sell. We will not have this industry that allows farmers to keep their farms and make a living and contribute to the countries GDP.

it is ignorant to say those farmers and farm job should simply go away just because locals don't want to do that at a price that is economic. Fine if they don't want to do them, but then don't hate then on those who are not only willing but happy to do them, if brought in.
 
In general, it's not a great idea to bring in massive swaths of unskilled labor when your economy is a Service Based one that is experiencing a rise in automation…..
 
They arent being treated equally, and the whole thing creates a false economy.

If you are making just enough to barely eat and live in a hovel, you might as well be a slave. They were given food and lodging, too. The only difference is choice, but, as youve pointed out, their choice in staying home is not much of a choice.

This is not something to be celebrated - that Americans have gotten fat and lazy off of .... well, not slaves, like you say... ummm, ‘SubAmericanly Paid’ wage slaves, while Capitalists get rich exploiting people with no other options, selling a product that obviously wouldnt stand on its own without having desperate people to exploit.

This is a bandaid. There are problems that actually need to be fixed in their home countries, and teaching Americans how not to fish is a huge problem, too.

The only potential solution i see, that is fair to the poor people of Central America, is America wiping out their cartels and government. As people, perhaps we can figure out what products to boycott, although i think that may bring short term Hell down there for the people, without money coming in.

It is definitely exploitative, even if they arent slaves.
Is this thread advocating illegals being paid less than others and not having benefits? All so real Americans can have cheaper products and food?

The leftist mind is truly fascinating when they drop the mask.
I don’t see any celebrating or cheerleading, just trying to understand why things are the way they are and what would really happen if they changed significantly.

Right wingers (and some independents) seem to have this notion that if we just got rid of all undocumented people, life would be great and things would tick on as normal except everyone’s wages would go up 15% or something.

I just don’t think that is the case.
 
Their businesses should not be open if they can't run them legally

Still doesn't answer why most Americans are lazy. Same thing happened in AZ when they offered decent pay to work the fields. Americans lasted no more than a week lol
 
he one where we encourage AMERICANS to not being selfish solitary non binary fuck ups who can't hold down relationships other then with pet cats?
<Dany07>good luck Americans dont even like each other
 
I don’t see any celebrating or cheerleading, just trying to understand why things are the way they are and what would really happen if they changed significantly.

Right wingers (and some independents) seem to have this notion that if we got rid of all undocumented workers life would be great and things would tick on as normal except everyone’s wages would go up 15% or something.

I just don’t think that is the case.

Its not. Alot of Americans act like they would do the job if it payed what they want. In reality they are just saving face.
 
So you're very against the $15 minimum wage then?

Democrats being both for lax border laws and for a $15 minimum wage is just such a mutually destructive pair of policy positions to hold. It just increases incentive to hire undocumented workers instead of Americans even more so.
.
And this statement is completely irrelevant to whether the immigrants are legal or illegal. I don't think any one says these jobs aren't in high demand to low end workers especially immigrants.

Liberals really need to learn the difference between legal and illegal. They are not synonymous with each other.

I don't care if they are legal or not if they actually working compared to citizens who are lazy.
 
Absolutely. There's a reason that "the party of business" has spent the last decades demonizing Hispanics but not doing a goddamn thing to change the status of millions of undocumented workers. It's doubly beneficial.
Triply beneficial as one of the problems was that increasingly undocumented workers, so heavily relied upon in the US by so many industries, were getting rights. Those that faced harassment (Sexual or other) and those who faced improperly reduced or denied pay or other work place problems were accessing the levers of gov't to get a hearing and to get fair treatment. This is a group who has historically been very vulnerable to abuse and taken advantage of by employers but that was changing.

Now under Trumps new cooperation orders amongst gov't agencies, if a group of migrant workers complain at one factory about X, that claim may be looked in to by the appropriate labour board, but the fact there is a collection of migrants there will be shared with ICE and they will likely be targeted for removal.

This means migrants are quickly learning to STFU and never complain about even the worst abuses which has never been a good power balance to give those in charge. I mean, those corporations who will continue to hire love it but...
 
No one should have to look for ways to get illegal immigrants legal. Either come here legally, like many others have done, or don’t do it. Pretty simple. I’m sure the ones who sneak in understand the risk they are taking.

Trump's admin has sharply limited legal immigration, seeking to halt it entirely. Your "Either come here legally, like many others have done, or don’t do it." is obviously not feasible for so many people, and is rather akin to telling a drug addict "Well, don't light up that joint 10 years ago." It's not helpful or applicable with the actual situation, it's just boilerplate to make whoever said it feel better about themselves.
 
The true humiliation here is that our economy runs on slave labor.

Americans want to make enough money at work to be able to support their families? Spoiled motherfuckers!

Being against slave labor being practiced and encouraged is not wrong. I want people here legally. I don't want them taken advantage of because they have no other choice.

Don't call illegals "hard-working" and your fellow countryfolk lazy, to absolve yourself of your guilty conscience. They're slaves.

Same shit, different century.
 
Plus everyone on the 'blame the undocumented band wagon' should know that this problem could be ended within a year if the gov't simply first, punitively fined, then took away the Charter of companies that were multiple offenders who were not doing enough to ensure they were hiring locals.

You are a dupe as a citizen if you think the gov't really wants these "problems" ended as they do not. Just as Trumps construction companies and Hotels and resorts will go back to hiring undocumented a day after someone stops shining a light directly on them, so to does gov't realize other businesses will. And the gov't creates the path for them to do so by saying there is no punishment for you the business, do not worry, make those extra profits. We will pin all the blame on the worker.

Honestly the citizens who act as dupes for the govt by blaming the workers instead of demanding the gov't punish the employers, are just that, dupes or useful idiots. If companies faced fines or dissolution they would have to price that into their wage risk cost and pay more to avoid that risk. Simple as that, if you really want to put a massive dent in it. Don't believe their lies.
 
My dads friend has his own small business making liposuction needles here in oc. hardcore republican . Let’s just say most of his machinists are illegals but really cool guys . I volunteered there for a few months . The guys were riding their bikes there from other cities at like 4 -5 am. Hard workers .
Without illegal Mexicans his business wouldn’t exist and he wouldn’t have money to buy one of his daughters a Land Rover like it’s nothing .

I have a neighbor who owns a brewery across the street and he says the same fucking thing. Nobody will take a job as a cook for $17 an hour except illegals. So he just wants to make it easier for them to come in and be legal.

And I keep telling him, what happens when they establish themseleves and realize they deserve more? They will move on. So he says bring more in.

We need to realize that people like my neighbor doesn't deserve to run a business if he can't meet the labor demands of legal citizens.

This is crooked capitalism at its finest. We want to make money from a free market but fuck playing by the rules because I can't win that way. So instead let's have an endless cycle.
 
Their businesses should not be open if they can't run them legally
Of course no one wants to work crazy hours for little money. Those industries need to pay more in order to attract workers
 
I don’t see any celebrating or cheerleading, just trying to understand why things are the way they are and what would really happen if they changed significantly.

Right wingers (and some independents) seem to have this notion that if we just got rid of all undocumented people, life would be great and things would tick on as normal except everyone’s wages would go up 15% or something.

I just don’t think that is the case.

I don’t think life would magically be better if anything it would be temporarily worse as prices go up etc. But we would at least have done what is right and upheld justice and the rules. It is simply unfair to those who go trough the process legally and wait their turn.
 
I don’t see any celebrating or cheerleading, just trying to understand why things are the way they are and what would really happen if they changed significantly.

Right wingers (and some independents) seem to have this notion that if we just got rid of all undocumented people, life would be great and things would tick on as normal except everyone’s wages would go up 15% or something.

I just don’t think that is the case.
Well it always does
In healthcare they adjust the wages for staff every couple years just to keep up with other hospitals. If they don’t they can’t hire someone below market value. So unskilled labor would go the same way.
 
Plus everyone on the 'blame the undocumented band wagon' should know that this problem could be ended within a year if the gov't simply first, punitively fined, then took away the Charter of companies that were multiple offenders who were not doing enough to ensure they were hiring locals.

You are a dupe as a citizen if you think the gov't really wants these "problems" ended as they do not. Just as Trumps construction companies and Hotels and resorts will go back to hiring undocumented a day after someone stops shining a light directly on them, so to does gov't realize other businesses will. And the gov't creates the path for them to do so by saying there is no punishment for you the business, do not worry, make those extra profits. We will pin all the blame on the worker.

Honestly the citizens who act as dupes for the govt by blaming the workers instead of demanding the gov't punish the employers, are just that, dupes or useful idiots. If companies faced fines or dissolution they would have to price that into their wage risk cost and pay more to avoid that risk. Simple as that, if you really want to put a massive dent in it. Don't believe their lies.

The reality is that this is as old as America and it was never a "problem" until recently when politicians started looking for people to blame for the failure of wages to increase. They couldn't blame the constant handouts to corporations or the gutting of unions so someone else needed to be responsible. And the reliable hundreds of years of cross border labor is easiest to blame because those people aren't Americans.
 
This is just like Trump at Mar-a-Lago only wanting to hire illegal immigrants because they can stay on site 24-7 in slave quarters. Murcan workers have the freedom to come and go as they please which is why they dont get hired.

And guarantee these business owners are all right-wing and support immigration so they can run their zhitty businesses, then their party makes up a fantasy that the left wants all these immigrants for 'votes'. Then the right-wing rubes eat this up and cant see the business owners are the ones replacing them.
This. It's like that lady in Kuwait who was complaining that her maid wanted a day off a month. Industrial countries have people that have and expect rights. Illegal immigration undermines those rights.
 
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