“Who wants to be a one-hit wonder?"

Quite a few of those 'takedown attempts' were attempts of opportunity after Hollie missed with a kick.
Miesha's success rate with self-initiated and fully committed attacks was higher.

Both of Miesha's successful takedowns were due to catching Holly when she overcommitted on her strikes and was off balance. Miesha's takedown in the first round was when Holly threw a straight left, her take down in the fifth round ducking under a right hook from Holly.

Miesha had a good game plan of forcing the counter striker to lead, and then shooing for carefully timed takedowns when she over committed on her strikes. If Miesha just chased after Holly spamming takedowns she would have ended up like Ronda.
 
I do think being too specialized is Hollie's weakness. She had her 6 minutes of fame against Ronda but I don't think she can repeat that feat. Nobodies going to bullrush her again after the Rousey and Tate fights.
The best she can hope for is eking out decision wins over her competition.
And she is certainly no Machida whose striking game and take down defense comes with a very solid ground game.

And for the record when I say she can't hack it in mma I mean that she won't be champion in the ufc again even though she might be dropping chicks left and right in the bush league.
Apparently this needs to be clarified

Before any kind of clarification I'd say your priority would be explaining why everyone can adapt except for Holly, because your thesis is predicated on that.
 
Before any kind of clarification I'd say your priority would be explaining why everyone can adapt except for Holly, because your thesis is predicated on that.

Because it is comparatively easy to refrain from bull rushing into somebody's striking range without employing feints or head movement.
Becoming competent on the ground to such an extent that you can hang in there with the likes of Rousey, Tate and others will be a lot more difficult and most likely not possible for Holly at this point in her career.
Sure, you can always hope that your takedown defense holds but as soon as that goes wrong your in a world of shit.
I stand by my point: Ronda has a mental problem to overcome against Holly. If she emulates Cupcake's gameplan she will prevail or at worst lose a five round decision.
No amount of training however will help Holly should intact-jaw Ronda succeed and get the clinch with more than 90 seconds remaining on the clock
 
as it stands right now, it was a buster douglas moment.

however there's a very good chance that ronda will beat tate and then holly will beat ronda again, which would make it more impressive.
 
You really need to reach to try and hate on a person like Holly. She'll hold the belt again.
yeah you've got to try pretty hard to do that.

kind of like the people that used to hate on GSP. not in terms of LnP but because he wasn't a bad boy or something.
 
Because it is comparatively easy to refrain from bull rushing into somebody's striking range without employing feints or head movement.
Becoming competent on the ground to such an extent that you can hang in there with the likes of Rousey, Tate and others will be a lot more difficult and most likely not possible for Holly at this point in her career.
Sure, you can always hope that your takedown defense holds but as soon as that goes wrong your in a world of shit.
I stand by my point: Ronda has a mental problem to overcome against Holly. If she emulates Cupcake's gameplan she will prevail or at worst lose a five round decision.
No amount of training however will help Holly should intact-jaw Ronda succeed and get the clinch with more than 90 seconds remaining on the clock
This is excessive nut-hugging, and once again it's all contingent upon something that's demonstrably and easily dismissed. Ronda didn't have a mental problem going into the fight in which she lost. In terms of logic you're plugging a surge protector into itself. Also, you don't have to "hope your takedown defense holds." You could, you know, work on your takedown defense. This goes back to your original fallacy, the idea that while Ronda can work on her game, Holly cannot.

You're the one clinging to hope. The hope that Ronda will maximize herself into the best possible fighter her physcial potential could allot, whilst hoping that Holly will do nothing. It's fucking amazing how you will exaggerate and diminish possibilities on a whim in order to convince yourself. Exactly how bad do you think my bullshit detector is?
 
Lol she got caught in a kamekazi choke attack. She would have won the fight if she had avoided it. What do you think she could do differently to avoid that? It's a dumb question
 
This is excessive nut-hugging, and once again it's all contingent upon something that's demonstrably and easily dismissed.
You sound gotten to.

Ronda didn't have a mental problem going into the fight in which she lost.
Um, obviously I meant to say she has a mental problem now, after the fight. In the Holm fight she was just unprepared and full of hubris.

You could, you know, work on your takedown defense. This goes back to your original fallacy, the idea that while Ronda can work on her game, Holly cannot.
Lol, did you even try to understand what I wrote?

It is my understanding that it is easier to adopt a 'don't rush in with your chin high like an idiot' mentality for Ronda than it is for Hollie to reach the necessary near 100% proficiency at TD defense against a take down artist of Ronda's calibre.
Yes, I have seen Ronda fail to take Holly down and I have seen Miesha succeed at the task.
However, Ronda was shot and broken at this point, her jaw possibly cracked earlier in the fight.
So bottom line: Ronda can learn not to bullrush and play it safe, but Holly cannot become an expert grappler in the same time frame. Not likely for a 34 year old woman.


You're the one clinging to hope. The hope that Ronda will maximize herself into the best possible fighter her physcial potential could allot, whilst hoping that Holly will do nothing. It's fucking amazing how you will exaggerate and diminish possibilities on a whim in order to convince yourself. Exactly how bad do you think my bullshit detector is?

No, it is just a different tactic for Ronda, nothing 'physcial'. Probably could have been fixed 15 minutes before the fight against Hollie.
And I did think that Hollie had excellent take down defense but then I saw her fight against Miesha.
 
You sound gotten to.


Um, obviously I meant to say she has a mental problem now, after the fight. In the Holm fight she was just unprepared and full of hubris.


Lol, did you even try to understand what I wrote?

It is my understanding that it is easier to adopt a 'don't rush in with your chin high like an idiot' mentality for Ronda than it is for Hollie to reach the necessary near 100% proficiency at TD defense against a take down artist of Ronda's calibre.
Yes, I have seen Ronda fail to take Holly down and I have seen Miesha succeed at the task.
However, Ronda was shot and broken at this point, her jaw possibly cracked earlier in the fight.
So bottom line: Ronda can learn not to bullrush and play it safe, but Holly cannot become an expert grappler in the same time frame. Not likely for a 34 year old woman.




No, it is just a different tactic for Ronda, nothing 'physcial'. Probably could have been fixed 15 minutes before the fight against Hollie.
And I did think that Hollie had excellent take down defense but then I saw her fight against Miesha.
Not gotten too, just frank and candid. Not trying to be insulting, if it seems that way I apologize.

These things you're saying are, again, just one of many possibilities. I really think you tend to interpret a lot of things in a very specific way that ends up tipping logical scales in whatever you personally favor. There are numerous different ways to look at your key points.

Your comment about not rushing in like an idiot is sound, but it doesn't address the basic problem that Ronda is so easily exploited. It's not a matter of her keeping her chin up so much as it is a problem of her being relatively easy to anger and manipulate. Her personality is that of an excessively immature person, and it really worked against her in this particular fight. She may be able to pick up a few tips that will make her dot a few I's and cross a few T's, but that overriding factor is still in play. I know this is something you mentioned earlier, but this is something that is wired directly into who she is, and I don't think it's going away anytime soon, even with the generous slice of humble pie she got stuffed down her throat.

Another thing is that Holly does not need to learn to be an expert grappler in order to comprehensively and effectively thwart Ronda's takedowns. Ronda has a very predictable strategy because it's the same one she always uses. Get in, clinch, go for Arm-bar. You can easily pick up basic moves to foil the 1-2 strategies that Ronda frequently employs. In short, she wouldn't need to learn to be an expert grappler or any kind of grappler.

Which leads me to the biggest thing of all- Ronda's camp and coaches are awful. Unless she changes that, she's not going to be bringing many new things to the table.

None of these musings are unreasonable or out of the realm of possibility, they are every bit as valid as the ones you've suggested. As an added addendum, I would have to say I would only give you minor credit on the comment about Miesha's ability to take down Holly. Miesha had 9 attempts, was successful in only two.

It's common to, whenever someone has lost a fight, scrutinize and ostracize that person. Ronda, Holly, Silva, anyone. It's typically a knee-jerk reaction to the obscene amount of praise someone has previously received for besting their predecessor, but it's equally erroneous and unfounded.
 
that's two things she didn't do in the first fight, I'm not sure she can improve that much.
She has three fucking years of being a full time fighter. She was beating Miesha on all the scorecards, and will most likely win the rematch. You are a Rousey fan aren't you?
 
Fifth round was not over, but I can't argue that. Still I'll be more than willing to bet Holly wins a rematch, and I believe she sees UFC gold again. She was destroyed by Anne Mathis, and came back to win the rematch. Holly is mentally the strongest fighter in the UFC (male or female). This is MMA, no one retires undefeated.
 
She was winning on the scorecards, so she actually was doing great.
I feel like she could add conventional leg kicks to her arsenal.
Hell, she could even have gone to some takedowns of her own.
She showed that she's stronger than Tate in the clinch, she shrugged of a lot of TD attempts.
Holm's just not comfortable on her back and it showed.
I agree with Eddie Bravo's opinion, that she just should roll with everyone in the gym, get comfortable with BJJ.

 
Fifth round was not over, but I can't argue that. Still I'll be more than willing to bet Holly wins a rematch, and I believe she sees UFC gold again. She was destroyed by Anne Mathis, and came back to win the rematch. Holly is mentally the strongest fighter in the UFC (male or female). This is MMA, no one retires undefeated.
Completely agree. I think holm takes the rematch.
 
Not gotten too, just frank and candid. Not trying to be insulting, if it seems that way I apologize.

These things you're saying are, again, just one of many possibilities. I really think you tend to interpret a lot of things in a very specific way that ends up tipping logical scales in whatever you personally favor. There are numerous different ways to look at your key points.

Nah, don't apologize. I am the one who has to apologize. Mistook you for one of the Ronda hating louts but you seem to be well-spoken.
Yeah, I'm biased but I'm just giving it back both barrels. All this drivel people have been spouting has made me a tad bit sensitive, I guess


Your comment about not rushing in like an idiot is sound, but it doesn't address the basic problem that Ronda is so easily exploited. It's not a matter of her keeping her chin up so much as it is a problem of her being relatively easy to anger and manipulate. Her personality is that of an excessively immature person, and it really worked against her in this particular fight. She may be able to pick up a few tips that will make her dot a few I's and cross a few T's, but that overriding factor is still in play. I know this is something you mentioned earlier, but this is something that is wired directly into who she is, and I don't think it's going away anytime soon, even with the generous slice of humble pie she got stuffed down her throat.
Another thing is that Holly does not need to learn to be an expert grappler in order to comprehensively and effectively thwart Ronda's takedowns. Ronda has a very predictable strategy because it's the same one she always uses. Get in, clinch, go for Arm-bar. You can easily pick up basic moves to foil the 1-2 strategies that Ronda frequently employs. In short, she wouldn't need to learn to be an expert grappler or any kind of grappler.

Well, I don't know Ronda personally but I have competed in Judo and I have met and trained with olympic medalists (I am not nearly at their level though).
They aren't always mature people. In fact one of my club mates was very similar to Ronda in her behavior.
Mental weakness and being unable to adapt when push comes to shove was not among their flaws though.
By the same rationale I'd wager that Ronda is capable of doing more than just hip toss/ arm bar to get the job done. Olympic medalist Judoka are specialized though and a lot of their stuff is not applicable to MMA but still. They certainly bring more to the table.

Which leads me to the biggest thing of all- Ronda's camp and coaches are awful. Unless she changes that, she's not going to be bringing many new things to the table.

People are quick to say so. Yet that 'awful coaching' managed to produce the most successful WMMA fighter ever. Although I guess you could say she became great in spite of them.

None of these musings are unreasonable or out of the realm of possibility, they are every bit as valid as the ones you've suggested. As an added addendum, I would have to say I would only give you minor credit on the comment about Miesha's ability to take down Holly. Miesha had 9 attempts, was successful in only two.
I honestly dispute that number. Fightmetrics may count 9 attempts but I think it was closer to six serious attempts that were actually initiated by Miesha. But still two successful attempts were enough.

It's common to, whenever someone has lost a fight, scrutinize and ostracize that person. Ronda, Holly, Silva, anyone. It's typically a knee-jerk reaction to the obscene amount of praise someone has previously received for besting their predecessor, but it's equally erroneous and unfounded.

You have a point there. I guess we all can't be riding Holly's **** and shit on Ronda though
 
The judges score cards had it going to a draw. Just an fyi

If she got the takedown and kept it on the ground for the rest of the round then yes.

If Holly focused everything on avoiding the takedown then she would have won.
 
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