“They do the jobs nobody else wants to do” is a BS argument

[panamaican]

I know, just stating a comment.
That said, you don't think morality and legality are interconnected??

Sure they are interconnected. Our laws reflect our collective morality. An individual's personal morality is pretty much irrelevant to legality though.

 

[dormammu]

Sure they are interconnected. Our laws reflect our collective morality. An individual's personal morality is pretty much irrelevant to legality though.

And what up about jury nullification?

 

[panamaican]

And what up about jury nullification?

I knew this was coming. I think it's an abrogation of your responsibilities as a citizen. If you can't apply the law then ask to be removed from the jury.

 

[GOATER]

Quote where I said they ALL get paid under the table. You won’t because you just made that up

And yea, identity theft is a BIG deal. Which is why many do still work in the shadows. So essentially u are admitting a GREAT deal of them commit identity theft

In other words, you are not making a good case here

It’s not just the pay. The actual wage is not all that goes into getting a LEGAL employee

100 under the table bucks is FAR less expensive to an employer than hiring an employee at 10 bucks an hour

You only mentioned getting paid under the table....You didn't mention them getting paid in checks..You made it seem as if all those jobs nobody else wants, only pay under the table...which is bullshit.

But I get your tactic...Now you're gonna claim "I didn't say ALL"......that's going to be ur technicality even though anybody who read your original statements, knows your implying that the reason they hire illegals, is because they pay them under the table and not with checks.

You're full of shit....but im not surprised...have some balls and admit that you meant your original statement.


Again dumbass......Im only speaking facts here...If it wasn't for me, you wouldn't have known about the SSN revelation I just gave you...So you obviously don't know shit about illegal immigration, so STFU.

Now that I gave you the info about black market SSN....You are going to act all outraged, even though you didn't know if I hadn't just told you right now...LMFAO.

 

[Seano]

It's also indoors, is relatively easy work, and you get food discounts. It's a lot easier than picking fruit.

I raked berries as a kid. I'd honestly rather do that than work in fast food.

 

[dormammu]

I knew this was coming. I think it's an abrogation of your responsibilities as a citizen. If you can't apply the law then ask to be removed from the jury.

LoL but you walked right into it..

 

[panamaican]

I raked berries as a kid. I'd honestly rather do that than work in fast food.

I've done both. Fast food is easier and I quit fast food after 1 day.

 

[panamaican]

LoL but you walked right into it..

I knew it was coming but there's never a bad time for me to say I disagree with it.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Didn't read OP, but I cannot remember the last time I saw a non-hispanic/black hotel maid or fast food cashier.

In-n-Out is practically all pasty white people. But I hear they pay well too. Come to think of it though, I dont even think I have seen a black hotel maid. I have seen some black front desk, and security though.

 

[dormammu]

Sure they are interconnected. Our laws reflect our collective morality. An individual's personal morality is pretty much irrelevant to legality though.

This post seems a bit silly after admitting you know what jury nullification is. No offense, just my humble and possibly ignorant opinion.

Correct me if I am wrong the supreme court has recognised jury nullification as well, even if a jury isn't notified.
Why are you against, are you a prosecuter?

 

[I Am Legion]

I wanted a car was I was 16. I washed dishes at a Red Lobster all summer. I was the only white kid there but I made 7.25 an hour in 1988. The difference was I was promoted to busboy, and when I turned 18, waiter. As a waiter I made 200 a night in tips. Those guys were such hard workers but they never learned English. There are plenty of cultures I know that are poor in America that would not do those kitchen jobs.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

I actually don't think that's true. I've seen interviews with farmers who pay $100 a day to pick fruit and they cannot get enough American workers to accept it. $100 a day is actually pretty good money, and more than fair for the level of skill involved. But nobody wants to pick fruit apparently. A lot of people from Honduras, El Salvador, and Mexico will happily accept that $100 a day.

The solution is to incentive that type of work by having an express line for immigrants who are willing to work 5 years in one of those positions. If you want to speed up your legal immigration, and you want to make $100 a day, then you should be able to do so legally. Everybody wins in the situation.

Not sure if related but you reminded me of my childhood. Me, and my family use to go fruit picking for recreation. In central Jersey, they use to have these peach/apple farms. It was pretty popular outing for families to. We actually have to pay the farmers to let us pick their fruits.

I wonder sure why it does not seem to work the other way around though. Maybe its the low lying fruits that people dont want to pick. Peaches, and apples grow on tall trees.

But $100/day 5 days a week is only $500/week is only $2K/month is only $24K annual compensation. I am not sure the cost of living in the fruit producing states though.

 

[vengeful]

Because an employer does not just pay a wage. You understand their are costs and taxes to be paid, right?

Sure, about 7.6% for payroll taxes which is about 30$ on 400 dollars a week to make it 430$ a week vs 500 for the illegal. Let's say another 10$ a week for unemployment insurance which would put that up to 440$. Not to mention that 440$ a week will be deducted from the employer's revenue which will lower their taxable income even further, whereas that 500 a week isn't deducted legally as it is under the table.

Are there some costs I'm missing that must be paid to employers that aren't paid to people working under the table?

 

[*Z*]

LOL at not realizing that Dems are the ones who are supposed to be protecting worker's rights to begin with....




Maybe in the Midwest. And that's a solid maybe.

There's no maybe about it. Even in California the agriculture areas are republican areas.

 

[Mark Hunts FIST]

No one else would do these jobs.

so you're saying you don't mind taking advantage of these people?

no, I don't want to take advantage of them. I'm just saying if we don't let them do it, the price of lettuce is going to go up. Citizens don't want to do it for the current pay.

But don't you want those illegals to become citizens and get equal pay?

Ummmmmmm. You're racist.

 

[SBJJ]

You only mentioned getting paid under the table....You didn't mention them getting paid in checks..You made it seem as if all those jobs nobody else wants, only pay under the table...which is bullshit.

But I get your tactic...Now you're gonna claim "I didn't say ALL"......that's going to be ur technicality even though anybody who read your original statements, knows your implying that the reason they hire illegals, is because they pay them under the table and not with checks.

You're full of shit....but im not surprised...have some balls and admit that you meant your original statement.


Again dumbass......Im only speaking facts here...If it wasn't for me, you wouldn't have known about the SSN revelation I just gave you...So you obviously don't know shit about illegal immigration, so STFU.

Now that I gave you the info about black market SSN....You are going to act all outraged, even though you didn't know if I hadn't just told you right now...LMFAO.

Weird. Many contradictions in this post

You accused me of saying something I did not. My under the table example was a response to others posts. You’d know that if u could track the conversation

Now. You are possibly the most ignorant poster in the WR if you can’t grasp me asking u the valid SSN question was a trap that u fell right into. Thus, why you are now wailing about it

I’d also mind your manners with those double yellows. It’s bad enough you are known as the most unstable posters around here. With the new more unbiased approach the MODS are taking you could find yourself bounced

But if it will stop you from beating your SO, I will gladly concede that I asked that SSN question not to trap your stupid ass. But because I’m not that smart and you enlightened me

 

[panamaican]

This post seems a bit silly after admitting you know what jury nullification is. No offense, just my humble and possibly ignorant opinion.

Correct me if I am wrong the supreme court has recognised jury nullification as well, even if a jury isn't notified.
Why are you against, are you a prosecuter?

There's nothing silly about the post, it's very straightforward. Laws reflect collective morality. Jury nullification is a bunch of individuals deciding in the moment that they want to substitute their personal morality for that of society.

As for why I'm against it - I'll use an example.

12 people get together and decide that laws against bank robbery are unfair so they go in and rob a bunch of banks. Would people say "Well, they decided on their own that the law was wrong so it's fine for them to disregard it."

That's what jury nullification is, except it takes place after the crime instead of before. And if I disagree with that philosophy prior to the crime, I will continue to disagree with it after the crime.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

No shit dumbass.


Fact is that if you want AMERICANS to pick up strawberries, you better prepared to pay people $20-$30 an hour...or else nobody is picking that shit up.


Which will lead to more Famers/Big Agriculture Corporations getting welfare from the government...even more than now.

But if Big Agri under pay the pickers, and pickers come to tax payer for welfare is better?

 

[Nooob]

If what you said is true then we would be seeing Anglo descendents working as taxi drivers, maids, cleaners or working in 7/11 and other menial jobs. But nope, the vast majority are immigrants who would happily put a huge smile on their face at the end of their shift.

 

[dormammu]

There's nothing silly about the post, it's very straightforward. Laws reflect collective morality. Jury nullification is a bunch of individuals deciding in the moment that they want to substitute their personal morality for that of society.

As for why I'm against it - I'll use an example.

12 people get together and decide that laws against bank robbery are unfair so they go in and rob a bunch of banks. Would people say "Well, they decided on their own that the law was wrong so it's fine for them to disregard it."

That's what jury nullification is, except it takes place after the crime instead of before. And if I disagree with that philosophy prior to the crime, I will continue to disagree with it after the crime.

You a prosecuter?