“They do the jobs nobody else wants to do” is a BS argument

You would think "They do the jobs nobody else wants to do for a price that is acceptable to the market" was so obvious that it didn't need to be said. And yet...
 
panamaican said:
It's not, only entering illegally is a crime. So people who enter legally but don't leave when they're supposed to haven't committed a crime, it's a civil penalty...but don't let facts get in your way.
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That's the equivalent of saying bill clinton was telling the truth when he said he didnt have "sexual relations" with Monica, maybe technically true under the law, everyone knows better
 
panamaican said:
As for the OP, it is implied that "they do the jobs nobody else wants to do..." at the going wage for that work.

And picking fruits and those jobs are hard work. They're tough on the back, the hands, etc. They don't pay anywhere near what a skilled tradesman is paying and tradesmen work is hard on the body too. Of course no one wants to do it, everyone is convinced that they're too good for that type of thing.
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Honestly, if such is the case maybe we ought to be paying more for our food. But how have we even reached this point in the first place?
 
panamaican said:
It's not, only entering illegally is a crime. So people who enter legally but don't leave when they're supposed to haven't committed a crime, it's a civil penalty...but don't let facts get in your way.
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A "civil violation" is a violation of law.
 
SBJJ said:
It’s not just the pay. The actual wage is not all that goes into getting a LEGAL employee

100 under the table bucks is FAR less expensive to an employer than hiring an employee at 10 bucks an hour
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That's a bunch of bullshit...Specially in the jobs Americans don't want to do like Agricultural jobs...The require an SSN, thus they do get paid with a check.

Plenty of undocumented workers get paid with actual checks, thus the government takes away taxes for Social Security, medicare, etc...just like any normal American...Difference is, that the undocumented person, will never get to reap the benefits of his social security.

The IRS estimates that undocumented immigrants pay over $9 billion in withheld payroll taxes annually. Undocumented immigrants also help make the Social Security system more solvent, as they pay into the system but are ineligible to collect benefits upon retiring. In 2010, $12 billion more was collected from Social Security payroll taxes of undocumented workers than were paid out in benefits.
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https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-federal-taxes-an-explainer/
 
zebby23 said:
Lol huh? Facts hurt your widdle feelings? Brown people that come here not criminals so your narrative is wrong?
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No, that's incorrect. What's next, going to tell me the murder or violent crime rate in Mexico is lower than America?
 
panamaican said:
As for the OP, it is implied that "they do the jobs nobody else wants to do..." at the going wage for that work.

And picking fruits and those jobs are hard work. They're tough on the back, the hands, etc. They don't pay anywhere near what a skilled tradesman is paying and tradesmen work is hard on the body too. Of course no one wants to do it, everyone is convinced that they're too good for that type of thing.
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Flipping burgers doesn't pay as much as being a tradesmen either but people do that.
 
panamaican said:
As for the OP, it is implied that "they do the jobs nobody else wants to do..." at the going wage for that work.

And picking fruits and those jobs are hard work. They're tough on the back, the hands, etc. They don't pay anywhere near what a skilled tradesman is paying and tradesmen work is hard on the body too. Of course no one wants to do it, everyone is convinced that they're too good for that type of thing.
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I know plenty of people who worked these jobs...They have fucked up back/shoulders/etc...and with our shitty health insurance...You are sacrificing your health quality for minimum wage.


This is why Americans wouldn't do these jobs unless they got paid something ridiculous like $20+.


and I don't blame them...Why work a shitty hard agricultural job, when you can get the same pay working retail which doesn't destroy your body like field work.
 
panamaican said:
As for the OP, it is implied that "they do the jobs nobody else wants to do..." at the going wage for that work.

And picking fruits and those jobs are hard work. They're tough on the back, the hands, etc. They don't pay anywhere near what a skilled tradesman is paying and tradesmen work is hard on the body too. Of course no one wants to do it, everyone is convinced that they're too good for that type of thing.
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Higus said:
You would think "They do the jobs nobody else wants to do for a price that is acceptable to the market" was so obvious that it didn't need to be said. And yet...
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Don’t mix cause and effect, the pay is low because the supply of illegal immigrant workers are available. The market does not dictate price based only on demand, price is based on a combination of demand with supply. If supply of illegal workers were not available people will still eat raspberries but will have to pay more for them. Just like people now pay more for cotton labor than they did during slavery (factor out technology). Anyone in favour of illegal immigrant workers being paid less than minimum wage will be judged by history no different than slave owners and all your statues will be torn down.
 
panamaican said:
It's not, only entering illegally is a crime. So people who enter legally but don't leave when they're supposed to haven't committed a crime, it's a civil penalty...but don't let facts get in your way.
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A civil penalty, so the US only fines people who came here legaly but don’t leave when they are supposed instead of deporting them?
 
Rockapotomuss said:
Don’t mix cause and effect, the pay is low because the supply of illegal immigrant workers are available. The market does not dictate price based only on demand, price is based on a combination of demand with supply. If supply of illegal workers were not available people will still eat raspberries but will have to pay more for them. Just like people now pay more for cotton labor than they did during slavery (factor out technology). Anyone in favour of illegal immigrant workers being paid less than minimum wage will be judged by history no different than slave owners and all your statues will be torn down.
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Re: bolded - Relax, dude. I'm certainly not in favor of paying anyone, legal or otherwise, less than minimum wage. We're just pointing that the argument isn't bullshit because that the price would have to rise is implied within the statement.
Personally, I'd like to see a credible analysis of what supply and demand for laborers and berries looks like under legal conditions.
 
SBJJ said:
It’s not just the pay. The actual wage is not all that goes into getting a LEGAL employee

100 under the table bucks is FAR less expensive to an employer than hiring an employee at 10 bucks an hour
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Explain, assuming this is based on a 40 hour week. Cause the math in my head does not agree with you
 
vengeful said:
lol @ acting like Republicans aren't benefiting from cheap labor just as much as Democrats.
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LOL at not realizing that Dems are the ones who are supposed to be protecting worker's rights to begin with....

*Z* said:
You know who owns most big agriculture businesses? It's not liberals. You're directing your rant at the wrong people buddy. Republicans are the farmers not the dems.
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Maybe in the Midwest. And that's a solid maybe.
 
Rockapotomuss said:
They do the jobs nobody else wants to do. Biggest line of BS ever. Nobody wants to do any job. I’d you can’t find people to fill a position it means you’re not paying enough. People will risk their lives to catch crab in freezing water for the right money. What elitist liberals are really saying with “They do they job sbobody else wants to do” is “I don’t want to pay” to maintain my gardens pools and toilets. Hiring undocumented workers without rights is borderline slave labor and it’s immoral.
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High schoolers will never be able to work part time/summer jobs in fast food like we used to. Instead it will be career lower class and/or unskilled migrants.
 
MicroBrew said:
Ofcourse it is a bullshit argument. The fault lies with business owners, corporate America and the government. Most business owners and companies are greedy. Which is why Republicans need to quit siding with corporate America while simultaneously blaming illegals.
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This is the most mind-blowing part of it all - republicans who are all for free markets and maximizing profits and "shareholders' value", foaming at the mouth at the tactic which is literally the cornerstone of capitalism - cost reduction. They'd shit a boulder, not a brick, if Apple was made move all of it's production back into the US, and what they're doing is not different qualitatively from what a random contractor is doing when they employ an undocumented immigrant - they're looking for cheaper labor. How the republicans justify one but condemn the other has to be one of the most hilarious and blatant instances of cognitive dissonance (let's be real - you don't give a flying fuck about the legality of it all, it's just not that comfortable to see it happen in your own backyard because it reminds you of what kind of a person you are deep inside).
 
Meh

Most jobs will be automated soon enough. They'll just find a new excuse for mass immigration
 
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