‘Comfort Women’ Agreement FINALLY Reached Between Japan and South Korea

What this guy says:
They wanted a formal apology for taking and enslaving Korean women to be used as whores. The women wanted the government to acknowledge what they, the govt, had done to them, and apologize for it. They didn't want another "sorry, not sorry" response.
Okay, again these are the same talking points that's been stated on internet sites. This was a republicized and repackaged story that was highly, highly, highly politicized by the Koreans for Political reasons rather than compassion for the comfort women.

And the so called "SINCERE" apology, whatever that means. The Japanese still doesn't accept the narrative klimt says despite what everyone may think. Which is excellent.

This is the quote from Kishida who made the apology.
"The comfort women issue is an issue whereby many women under the then military's involvement bore deep scars to their honor and dignity, and from this perspective, the Japanese government acutely feels responsible,"
 
That's because after Pearl Harbor, my boys from the good ole USMC took the war to them and kicked the shit out of them island after island. They didn't have the resources to attack us again like that because our Navy and Marines crippled those fucks.

So?
 
What a joke. Where do you people find these talking points about a self-criticism and start parroting all over the Western speaking forums as something that was necessary for the Japanese to have gone through.

The whole logic behind the Nazi's being self-reflection is the whole Holocaust narrative where they attacked and massacred people based upon their ethnicity, race, sexual orientation etc. And the West has sold the world that this was the causes for the War against Nazi Germany.

The Japanese weren't doing this. They were trying to build an Empire in Asia just as the West did. The Russians had be breathing down their necks since the mid-19th century. The Americans forced Japan's country to open under the threat of violence. The British, Germans, French, Spanish had conquered and colonized the ENTIRETY OF ASIA except China (Korea was part of China), Siam, Japan.

Japan's war was not about taking down a people. It was elevating Asia to the standards of the West.

The Japanese have been self-critical of themselves since they joined with the Western Powers.

So the japanese were actually helping the chinese when they were massacring them?
 
So the japanese were actually helping the chinese when they were massacring them?

Personally, I find the "Rape of Nanking" to be an extremely suspect story and is likely Chinese/American Anti-Japanese Propaganda.

Based on the statistics of population increases
http://www.history.gr.jp/nanking/chapter02_01.html
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/unko/tamezou/nankin/whatreally/chapter0107.html
http://www.chinajapan.org/articles/13.2/13.2askew2-20.pdf

fake photographic evidence presented by the KMT
photographs of Nanking that showed a quite genuinely happy population
http://www2.biglobe.ne.jp/remnant/nankingm.htm

business interests
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rabe

the involvement of American/European missionaries,

the timing the so-called massacred occured (Literally, one of the earliest conflicts of WW2 in the Pacific with long-term veterans in one of the most disciplined militaries in the world and they lost their shit? That's hard to believe)

Were the Japanese helping the Chinese?
Everyone lacks perspective on the issues here. The Chinese were at War with themselves for nearly a quarter of a century. The people who vied for the spot of ruler of China were mostly a bunch of scumbag, looting bandits who raped and pillaged their own peoples. The only advanced non-white Nation in the universe at this point is Japan (correct me if I'm wrong here) and they've successfully raised Taiwan from nothing and Korea from it's decadent, slave filled, despotic rule. Why not take China and fix the situation? It was a different period and the Russians were doing this every day.

When Japan launched it's war against America, it removed every European colonial power from South East Asia and tried to liberate Asia from European control.

When the Americans won the war. The Asia today is divided against itself.
 
King Shisa said:
The Japanese weren't doing this. They were trying to build an Empire in Asia just as the West did. The Russians had be breathing down their necks since the mid-19th century. The Americans forced Japan's country to open under the threat of violence. The British, Germans, French, Spanish had conquered and colonized the ENTIRETY OF ASIA except China (Korea was part of China), Siam, Japan.

Japan's war was not about taking down a people. It was elevating Asia to the standards of the West.

The Japanese have been self-critical of themselves since they joined with the Western Powers.

One man's 'elevating Asia to the standards of the West' is another man's "30 million Chinese killed, enslaved, and raped" I suppose.

You are right that Japanese imperialism was in many ways a *copy* of Western imperialism, although in many respects (like the bonkers Emperor cult) it was its own crazeball totalitarian weirdness. Almost all forms of imperialism inevitably characterized themselves as helping the poor peoples of the world advance and achieve civilization against The Evil Darkness. Those supposed aims are, in sordid reality, hopelessly compromised by material and political interests.

"Elevating Asia" rapidly proved to involve elevating *Japan* by raping the shit out of Asia. Partly this is because the Japanese were unable to generate profits by capitalist imperialism and investment, and thus turned to increasingly desperate and militaristic plundering in order to try to keep the whole wretched imperial project afloat. It is remarkably interesting to read analysis of Japan's imperial misadventures back in the days before WWII. Fantastic article about Manchukuo from the 1937 Foreign Affairs.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/japan/1937-10-01/price-japanese-imperialism

"And there is no way out. The new cabinet that took office at the end of June has appointed a national planning board to coordinate economic activities on the basis of a three-point policy: expansion of productive power, balancing of international accounts, adjustment of demand and supply of commodities. This is baying at the moon. Productive power of a sort can be expanded and is being expanded, dangerously so. For much of the expansion is for the production of armament. A good deal of Japan's recent appearance of prosperity is unhealthy precisely because it is based on the production of arms and munitions. Once that lets up, there will be a dangerous deflation; and sooner or later it must let up, because it cannot be paid for. The balancing of international accounts is a physical impossibility so long as the country runs deeper into debt and must strip herself in order to pay for imported raw materials needed for munitions and for manufactures to be exported to pay for raw materials. For the same reason the demand and supply of commodities cannot be adjusted, because there is an uneconomic factor in the equation. No programs or policies, no techniques or devices of organization, are of avail so long as Japan is defying a simple law of mathematics. Whatever permutations of the figures there may be, the resultant will always come nearer the minus sign.

If Japan possessed the assets and resources of Great Britain and the United States, she might have made a success of Manchukuo. She did not, so she has not. A hundred years ago, when conquest was technically simpler, she might have been successful. Had she waited until a hundred years from now, when her resources were more intensively developed, she might have been successful. Now she has not been successful and she cannot be successful. All the conditions of her physical and social being were against success. She has overreached herself. She will fail."

It is tragic that Japan's failure would take almost a decade more of inconceivably hideous warfare, in which so many millions of its neighbors and own people were thrown into the maw of the insane machine, trying to keep it alive.
 
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Personally, I find the "Rape of Nanking" to be an extremely suspect story and is likely Chinese/American Anti-Japanese Propaganda.

Based on the statistics of population increases
http://www.history.gr.jp/nanking/chapter02_01.html
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/unko/tamezou/nankin/whatreally/chapter0107.html
http://www.chinajapan.org/articles/13.2/13.2askew2-20.pdf

fake photographic evidence presented by the KMT
photographs of Nanking that showed a quite genuinely happy population
http://www2.biglobe.ne.jp/remnant/nankingm.htm

business interests
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rabe

the involvement of American/European missionaries,

the timing the so-called massacred occured (Literally, one of the earliest conflicts of WW2 in the Pacific with long-term veterans in one of the most disciplined militaries in the world and they lost their shit? That's hard to believe)

Were the Japanese helping the Chinese?
Everyone lacks perspective on the issues here. The Chinese were at War with themselves for nearly a quarter of a century. The people who vied for the spot of ruler of China were mostly a bunch of scumbag, looting bandits who raped and pillaged their own peoples. The only advanced non-white Nation in the universe at this point is Japan (correct me if I'm wrong here) and they've successfully raised Taiwan from nothing and Korea from it's decadent, slave filled, despotic rule. Why not take China and fix the situation? It was a different period and the Russians were doing this every day.

When Japan launched it's war against America, it removed every European colonial power from South East Asia and tried to liberate Asia from European control.

When the Americans won the war. The Asia today is divided against itself.

Japanese imperialism Apologist. Certainly something new around here.
 
One man's 'elevating Asia to the standards of the West' is another man's "30 million Chinese killed, enslaved, and raped" I suppose.

You are right that Japanese imperialism was in many ways a *copy* of Western imperialism, although in many respects (like the bonkers Emperor cult) it was its own crazeball totalitarian weirdness. Almost all forms of imperialism inevitably characterized themselves as helping the poor peoples of the world advance and achieve civilization against The Evil Darkness. Those supposed aims are, in sordid reality, hopelessly compromised by material and political interests.

"Elevating Asia" rapidly proved to involve elevating *Japan* by raping the shit out of Asia. Partly this is because the Japanese were unable to generate profits by capitalist imperialism and investment, and thus turned to increasingly desperate and militaristic plundering in order to try to keep the whole wretched imperial project afloat. It is remarkably interesting to read analysis of Japan's imperial misadventures back in the days before WWII. Fantastic article about Manchukuo from the 1937 Foreign Affairs.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/japan/1937-10-01/price-japanese-imperialism

"And there is no way out. The new cabinet that took office at the end of June has appointed a national planning board to coordinate economic activities on the basis of a three-point policy: expansion of productive power, balancing of international accounts, adjustment of demand and supply of commodities. This is baying at the moon. Productive power of a sort can be expanded and is being expanded, dangerously so. For much of the expansion is for the production of armament. A good deal of Japan's recent appearance of prosperity is unhealthy precisely because it is based on the production of arms and munitions. Once that lets up, there will be a dangerous deflation; and sooner or later it must let up, because it cannot be paid for. The balancing of international accounts is a physical impossibility so long as the country runs deeper into debt and must strip herself in order to pay for imported raw materials needed for munitions and for manufactures to be exported to pay for raw materials. For the same reason the demand and supply of commodities cannot be adjusted, because there is an uneconomic factor in the equation. No programs or policies, no techniques or devices of organization, are of avail so long as Japan is defying a simple law of mathematics. Whatever permutations of the figures there may be, the resultant will always come nearer the minus sign.

If Japan possessed the assets and resources of Great Britain and the United States, she might have made a success of Manchukuo. She did not, so she has not. A hundred years ago, when conquest was technically simpler, she might have been successful. Had she waited until a hundred years from now, when her resources were more intensively developed, she might have been successful. Now she has not been successful and she cannot be successful. All the conditions of her physical and social being were against success. She has overreached herself. She will fail."

It is tragic that Japan's failure would take almost a decade more of inconceivably hideous warfare, in which so many millions of its neighbors and own people were thrown into the maw of the insane machine, trying to keep it alive.

you are quoting the wrong person
 
Honestly I think we should keep him. New perspectives are always interesting.

There is interesting and suppressed truth to some of what he says about Japanese imperialism, particularly that in its early phases it was much more benevolent, and much more supported by locals, than the post-war narratives recognize -- in the post-war narratives, it was always an external process imposed upon a resisting national group. Those who supported it were traitors, selling out their nation.

You see this in the 'comfort women' narratives. The complicity of the Koreans in much of the tragic situation of the comfort women is completely unspeakable. And I get it, not only were they colonized, they were then stigmatized for doing what they had to in order to survive. It was incredibly dark times, and people want to blame an external evil for everything.

But the Japanese narrative rarely acknowledges how fucking terrible the Japanese were as imperialists. Terrible in all senses. They were unable to generate sufficient profits by building up imperial colonies -- they were pretty shit at that -- and so they increasingly shifted to outright plundering and robbing to support the empire instead of trying to build productive capital markets. By the 1930s, they had gone bat-shit crazy, with the military running around like rabid dogs, and Japan collapsing into a military cult state. The imperial project had become a murderous farce -- Japan desperately needed to rake in Chinese resources, and nobody in China was uncertain about the hideous fate that their would-be imperial masters had planned for them. At that point, the imperial Japanese had degenerated into straight-up nazis, and no amount of revisionism is going to be able to erase the fact.
 
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you are quoting the wrong person

Well fuck, I can't work this new website well at all. It's like watching Grandpa try to play Pokemon, just sad.

Post edited, hope that fixes it.
 
I find these apologies for past atrocities usually get criticized for not being genuine enough and the victim group will be demanding another apology next year. I understand there is criticism because Japan has not fully acknowledged the atrocities committed by their country in the past, but I wonder how useful apologies really are.
 
I find these apologies for past atrocities usually get criticized for not being genuine enough and the victim group will be demanding another apology next year. I understand there is criticism because Japan has not fully acknowledged the atrocities committed by their country in the past, but I wonder how useful apologies really are.

Thats up to the victims, but Poland,Israel or France are certainly more satisfied with Germany's apologies,reflections and reparations than China/Korea/SE Asia is with Japan's
 
I think the ROK was really just looking for a formal, unambiguous apology. That is something they have been seeking for quite some time and the Japanese often gave lip-service that seemed rather insincere. I haven't read the details of this yet, but yes it would be great if they can try putting this behind them so that they can cooperate and focus on more contemporary issues. This has been a very sticky issue, understandably.
I'm still trying to learn a great deal, so, not to suggest that one could actually "like" such a horrific moment in history but I am thankful for your wisdom; I wasn't aware of the full scope of ROK/Japan affairs was like.
Chonan?Takase?
If memory serves I'm pretty sure it was Ryo Chonan. GSP was getting some flack for coming out with the rising sun emblem and Ryo Chonan didn't have anything nice to say about the subject on Twitter, but Korean Zombie provided some sensitive input.
 
I forgot that reading is beyond your skills, im sorry for your time, carry on.

I'm sorry you want to believe those with an agenda and have to resort to a childish deflection
 
I'm sorry you want to believe those with an agenda and have to resort to a childish deflection

The NYTs is only reporting what others said, they are not the ones making the statement. The Smithsonian institute also believed that the whole millions would had died to be not an actual figure.

Im not saying that A-bombs were wrong and being captain hindsight is a joke, but we know more things nowadays, we know the japanese were looking at favorable surrender and we know what they were looking for.

All in all, Japan got what they wanted in the end.
 
The NYTs is only reporting what others said, they are not the ones making the statement. The Smithsonian institute also believed that the whole millions would had died to be not an actual figure.

Im not saying that A-bombs were wrong and being captain hindsight is a joke, but we know more things nowadays, we know the japanese were looking at favorable surrender and we know what they were looking for.

All in all, Japan got what they wanted in the end.
See this is a good post

Anyhow I am saying that some "historian" using his info he has to make claims of what they should do is at best being intellectually dishonest at worst pushing an agenda
 
Sad how overdue this was. But Japan has not really distanced itself from WW2 Japan.

I love Japan, but they're really shitty in regards to coming to terms with World War II. I'm not sure if modern-day Japanese will ever look at their Imperialist ancestors with disdain the way modern-day Germans look at the Nazis.

Every time a Japanese Prime Minister drops by that temple and worship the war criminals enshrined there, Japanese relations with other Asian countries take a step back, including their allied nations.
 
See this is a good post

Anyhow I am saying that some "historian" using his info he has to make claims of what they should do is at best being intellectually dishonest at worst pushing an agenda

What agenda is that again? isnt that the job of historians?
 
I love Japan, but they're really shitty in regards to coming to terms with World War II. I'm not sure if modern-day Japanese will ever look at their Imperialist ancestors with disdain the way modern-day Germans look at the Nazis.

Every time a Japanese Prime Minister drops by that temple and worship the war criminals enshrined there, Japanese relations with other Asian countries take a step back, including their allied nations.

With that mentality they may end up getting a reality check with China in the next 50 years or so.
 
What agenda is that again? isnt that the job of historians?

Imposing your views is not supposed to be their job. Whether or not that is what you have grown used to is something else.
 
Japanese imperialism Apologist. Certainly something new around here.

I'm still in awe over here.

It's so new and refreshing in the WR, I'm willing to overlook the lunacy of it all, for now.
 
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