Zercher squats better for recovery?

[krellik]

Sligthly weird question since my own short playing around with them reveals that they are hard as fuck, brutal on the arms and the core, etc...

But I was fucking around reading old shit on testosterone and was re-reading Tate on hyphertrophy and run into this quote:

"T-Nation: Okay, so why squat in cycles?

Tate: One reason is because although the squat is one of the best exercises for mass, it's also one of the main exercises that people stick to way too long.

Let's say you hit an overtraining state. Diagnose that however you want: lack of progress, morning pulse rate, feeling like shit, whatever. If you're in that state and you're continuously putting a bar on your back, which is a load on your spine (and your spine is your central nervous system), then you're inhibiting your ability to recover from other training"

Now my imediate thougth was that in zerchers the load is more infront of the spine instead of straigth on it like in back squats or over it like in front squats. So basicly my question here is how much actuall importance is this? Is my line of thougth correct and does it also mean that back squats and zercher squats are the ultimate combo to cycle?

 

[Zerocrew1984]

uhhh i'm not really sure. sorry. I just know that zercher squats obviously work your core tremendously but as far as the legs, not as much. they are a good assistance exercise.

so if you want to take a lot of stress off teh legs and top of the spine then zerchers are fine but i would think you could get away with doing front squats instead of backsquats for a few weeks if you were having problems and if you were still having problems maybe just resting for a week would solve your problem.

Back squats and zerchers are a fine combo but i wouldnt say the ultimate.

 

[Green Monkey]

Doesn't Tate go on to say that you could use belt squats to overload the legs without continuing to tax the spine and CNS as much?

I'm thinking that might be a better combo, because even Zerchers require some spine strength.

Is it good to deload the back and still work the legs? Yes.

Are Zerchers the ultimate back deloader that still works the legs? Not sure.

It stands to reason that you'll eventually overload in the Zercher Squats as well, so why not just count on mixing it up with some other stuff as well?

Back Squats, Front Squats, Overheads, Zerchers, Belts, even leg presses all can have their place.

 

[finnegan]

AS far as working the legs without too much of the spine getting involved, have you tried Hack squats?

 

[krellik]

AS far as working the legs without too much of the spine getting involved, have you tried Hack squats?

Nah but that stands on the list of cool shit to start to play around with. Wicked old school points to.

Band squats in such a machine that is shown is hardly a tool that is available for me...

 

[oyaji poi]

Interesting that you brought this up today krellik. I was thinking of doing zerchers on the Wed of the M-W-F MadCow 5x5. Rippetoe said something like medium-heavy front squats are the same to recover from as lighter squats. I reckoned zerchers would be aboot the same eh.

 

[Zerocrew1984]

i would consider front squats > zercher squats in relation to leg strength.

edit: maybe.

 

[Green Monkey]

Nah but that stands on the list of cool shit to start to play around with. Wicked old school points to.

Band squats in such a machine that is shown is hardly a tool that is available for me...

Can't you do belt squats with a dip belt standing on two platforms?

 

[Revok]

Can't you do belt squats with a dip belt standing on two platforms?

I'd thought of giving that a try. Could cause serious buttock chafe however.

 

[krellik]

Can't you do belt squats with a dip belt standing on two platforms?

Sounds like more hassle than its worth to me. In that case I think I choose pistol variations or something instead.

 

[krellik]

Interesting that you brought this up today krellik. I was thinking of doing zerchers on the Wed of the M-W-F MadCow 5x5. Rippetoe said something like medium-heavy front squats are the same to recover from as lighter squats. I reckoned zerchers would be aboot the same eh.

Or better since there should be even less preasure pressing down on the spine? Or am I wrong...
To begin with I dont even know how much actual impact something pressing down on the spine have for recovery...?

 

[takeahnase]

How about simply not squatting for a week or two?!

 

[Revok]

How about simply not squatting for a week or two?!

Clearly the news hasn't reached you...

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=605950

 

[takeahnase]

Clearly the news hasn't reached you...

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=605950

Woa, I retract. To the OP:

Belt squats, hack squats, sled dragging, pistols, DB/farmer's implements work...

 

[jk3004]

Holy shit i missed that thread. That is greatness.

 

[krellik]

Ok lets rephrase the question. Will excersices that dont put preasure right on top of the spine like a backsquat as in zerchers, pistols, etc, have much less fatiguing effect on the CSN and thus allow me to work harder on martial arts training / conditioning?

Or is this only relevant for a powerlifter?

 

[takeahnase]

Ok lets rephrase the question. Will excersices that dont put preasure right on top of the spine like a backsquat, zerchers, pistols, etc, have much less fatiguing effect on the CSN and thus allow me to work harder on martial arts training / conditioning?

Or is this only relevant for a powerlifter?

I don't see the relation between spine pressure and CNS fatigue. If you squat a lot, your spine takes a beating, hence it makes sense to take the load off your spine once in a while, some exercises like belt squats, sled dragging etc. work similar muscles to the squat and can thus be substituted instead of squats.

In my opinion it is best to take it easy for a week every 6-8 or maybe 10-12 weeks and that should be sufficient if you are not squatting 600lbs. week in and week out in order to let your CNS recover and worrying about your spine should not be an issue, If your back feels weird take it easy.

Also, I don't think pistols put much pressure on the spine.

 

[Bamaispriceless]

The answer is obviously not overtrain in the first place, and use the zercher as an assistant. Switch out exercises somewhat regularly, take a 1 week rest every 6-8 weeks (as listed above), eat plenty, and have backoff days if you just got done (or have an upcoming) tough MMA class.

 

[Bamaispriceless]

And holy crap, I just preached to Krellik, my bad man. I didn't know it was you.

 

[krellik]

Also, I don't think pistols put much pressure on the spine.

Edited my post for clarity...

And it definitively is cool Bama... I just read that quote by Tate and it got my mind to start to play around with different factors for training.