WTF is wrong with Aoki?

[Katsumi Yamada]

Aoki has always been the type of fighter that doesnt make comebacks and quits when the going gets tough ala Crumble, Vitor, BJ, Paul Harris, Corasani, Ellensburger etc.

First sign of adversity/resistance they usually fold and quit

Agree. Aoki is a glass cannon, similar to overeem or manhoef in that way.

He can beat anyone in the right circumstances...but easy to get KOd

 

[MiroHa]

Aoki has always been really bad at taking punches but it has escalated over the years. Now he starts to freeze from the first hard strike onwards.

 

[ThunderL1ps]

Guys you're focusing too much on the strikes. The slam may have stunned him to set up the TKO.

 

[Jay_Winter]

I also think the slam played a big factor. It didn't look as flashy as Rampage slamming down Arona, but the way Aoki's head just bounced off the canvas... I have to believe he was seeing stars.

That would explain his sudden lack of basically anything afterward. Before that, he was going for it, he had something in mind. He was working.

After the slam, he just half heartedly tried to buy some time... until the punches started. He was hurt, he wasn't recovering, he was continuing to be hurt, and that was it.

So yeah, maybe Aoki historically hasn't fared that well in adversity. Maybe his long career spanning nearly fifty professional fights was beginning to wear on him. Maybe he was outmatched physically by Askren (well, more like definitely). But I would say the slam just turned a switch 'OFF' for Aoki, concluding this fight a little sooner than it would have.

 

[skylolow]

I don't know if was a work or not but...................I really didn't expect the fight to go much different. Aoki ate some big shots there. Askren was sitting straight up and Aoki had no answer to getting Askren to put his head down to lock him up and actually try some submissions or work of his back.

Truth was that no matter what Aoki was never going to control where or how that match played out. Askren strengths will always be a nightmare for Aoki.

 

[Xtal]

Flash in the pan lol, he was a top 10 LW for half a decade. On top of Eddie and Kawajiri, he also beat Hansen twice, JZ, Shaolin amongst others.

Against Ben he looked like a dude collecting a paycheck. If Aoki showed up with any sort of motivation, it could have been a great fight.

Yeah maybe I am being a little hard on him, but let's be honest, he wasn't really top 10. Don't get me wrong, I love watching Aoki fight, he's extremely talented and he was definitely a top 10-20 guy during his strong run from like 2007-2010, not a decade, but Hansen, JZ, Shaolin, those are journeymen. He was never able to step up and beat guys like Sakurai who was a true elite fighter that had success against the best of the best. The problem is that the DREAM fighters had little to no crossover with UFC guys in the post-Pride era, so a proper comparison of skill was never made and thus international rankings back then made little sense. At least Pride had some crossover with UFC, with Coleman, Liddell, Dan Henderson, Mark Kerr, etc so you could form some sort of judgment, but DREAM didn't have that and thus the rankings of Aoki were nonsensical.

I mean let's look at top lightweights in 2008-2010; DREAM had Shaolin, JZ, Hansen, Aoki, Alvarez and Kawajiri. Meanwhile, UFC had BJ, Florian, Sherk, Sanchez, Edgar, Maynard, Stevenson, Tyson Griffin, Guida, Diaz, Tibau, Lauzon, Pearson, Dos Anjos, etc. Then you had Melendez, Thomson floating around in Strikeforce. I would confidently say that not a single one of those DREAM guys would ever defeat a single one of those UFC guys, not even a chance. Maybe Alvarez, since he could actually wrestle and could nullify some of the lesser tier guys like, but there's no way those DREAM guys could beat a single top 10 UFC guy. I mean you think someone like Hansen could take on even a Clay Guida, who was a fringe top 10 UFC Lightweight? Or even a Joe Lauzon? Diaz? There's just no chance. Those guys would get absolutely massacred by any of the top 15 UFC guys, and Aoki beating a few of them just isn't as impressive as people pretend.

 

[method115]

yeah i'm not that kinda guy, but that fight looked shady as fuck.


aoki just laid there and let askren hit him, like didn't do anything at ALL.


i know askren is bigger and aoki is near the end of his career but i don't buy that fight being legit.

It might have been a legit fight that Aoki had on his own decided he wont be taking massive amounts of damage to try and win.

 

[smiles mma]

What happened? I missed it.

He was in the "mounted guard" got slammed, didn't do much go tko'ed. You didn't miss much...
Yes, wtf is mounted guard you ask? He pulled guard and Ben just stood there while aoki rode his dick. Commentator called the position mounted guard lol

 

[eseseses681]

Haha mate that fight was in 2008, he got destroyed in the rematch

Doesn't change the fact that you said fighters like Eddie destroy Aoki as though Aoki would never be capable of defeating someone like them. Eddie was also unanimously ranked 2nd or 3rd in the world at the time and had been fighting for 5 years, so it's not like he was nubile.

 

[GIBLERTBAPTISTA]

Yeah maybe I am being a little hard on him, but let's be honest, he wasn't really top 10. Don't get me wrong, I love watching Aoki fight, he's extremely talented and he was definitely a top 10-20 guy during his strong run from like 2007-2010, not a decade, but Hansen, JZ, Shaolin, those are journeymen. He was never able to step up and beat guys like Sakurai who was a true elite fighter that had success against the best of the best. The problem is that the DREAM fighters had little to no crossover with UFC guys in the post-Pride era, so a proper comparison of skill was never made and thus international rankings back then made little sense. At least Pride had some crossover with UFC, with Coleman, Liddell, Dan Henderson, Mark Kerr, etc so you could form some sort of judgment, but DREAM didn't have that and thus the rankings of Aoki were nonsensical.

I mean let's look at top lightweights in 2008-2010; DREAM had Shaolin, JZ, Hansen, Aoki, Alvarez and Kawajiri. Meanwhile, UFC had BJ, Florian, Sherk, Sanchez, Edgar, Maynard, Stevenson, Tyson Griffin, Guida, Diaz, Tibau, Lauzon, Pearson, Dos Anjos, etc. Then you had Melendez, Thomson floating around in Strikeforce. I would confidently say that not a single one of those DREAM guys would ever defeat a single one of those UFC guys, not even a chance. Maybe Alvarez, since he could actually wrestle and could nullify some of the lesser tier guys like, but there's no way those DREAM guys could beat a single top 10 UFC guy. I mean you think someone like Hansen could take on even a Clay Guida, who was a fringe top 10 UFC Lightweight? Or even a Joe Lauzon? Diaz? There's just no chance. Those guys would get absolutely massacred by any of the top 15 UFC guys, and Aoki beating a few of them just isn't as impressive as people pretend.

I don't have time to respond to the entire post so I'll just address a couple of key points.

- Most people will tell you Aoki beat Mach in their first fight.

- Half those UFC guys you mentioned were mediocre at the time. JZ and Hansen would starch someone like Lauzon in 07-09. Maybe some DREAM guys were overranked at the time, but you're really underrating them here.

 

[Fungoose]

First of all, fighter, and very debatable. And Yeah when he wasn't even a fighter. Lmao

You can laugh your narrow ass off all you'd like. It's the truth. Conor was finished by no name can number 4. He was also choked unconscious by Joe Duffy. Dudes a charasmatic overachiever.

 

[NotoriousMillions]

You can laugh your narrow ass off all you'd like. It's the truth. Conor was finished by no name can number 4. He was also choked unconscious by Joe Duffy. Dudes a charasmatic overachiever.

As was Jose Aldo. As was even the undefeated Floyd Mayweather. You're trying to pretend you're smart by acting like Conor losing within a year of him starting MMA is some tell-tale sign of his ability. You're just making yourself look like an even bigger idiot.

 

[samoajoe]

Doesn't change the fact that you said fighters like Eddie destroy Aoki as though Aoki would never be capable of defeating someone like them. Eddie was also unanimously ranked 2nd or 3rd in the world at the time and had been fighting for 5 years, so it's not like he was nubile.

The difference in Eddie between fight 1 and 2 is crazy. If you cant tell that then you are blind doesnt matter how long he had been fighting he was fsr more wild in 2008 then 2012 which is why Aoki was able to do absolutely nothing in the rematch.

Aoki is good for his time which was the very start of LW where it was still in chaos and fighters were all over the place around the world, in retrospect most of Aokis wins never amounted to much and were also overrated based on the chaos of the division at the time, JZ is a perfect example of this.

 

[cookdaddy]

Nothing wrong with that fight to me. Aoki knew his best chance was to pull guard and get an early submission before they started sweating. Ben's striking is average at best but Aoki wasn't going to outstrike him.

Imagine Rani Yahya pulling guard on Yoel Romero. You get the idea.

 

[JacJeanFinger]

Remember Cote vs Lutter? When 2 guys trained at the same facility, they know each other's game so well that it won't be difficult to recreate the situation they had while training, in the cage.

 

[Tweak896]

Thank god Askren is done. My final hope of watching him fight good fighters is now gone. Was a fan when he started, but good riddance that he left. Any fighter that doesn't challenge himself I can't be a fan.

 

[cookdaddy]

Thank god Askren is done. My final hope of watching him fight good fighters is now gone. Was a fan when he started, but good riddance that he left. Any fighter that doesn't challenge himself I can't be a fan.

I don't think he pursued MMA the same way he did wrestling. Wrestling is his true love and he challenged himself many times in that sport.

Sometimes it's not always about the competition. Askren got in, made a lot of cash with OneFC, fought against mediocre competition and retired undefeated, taking almost zero long term damage in the process.

Say what you want but the guy played his cards right, now he has great health leaving a physically demanding sport and will still be extremely successful being involved in MMA.

 

[eseseses681]

The difference in Eddie between fight 1 and 2 is crazy. If you cant tell that then you are blind doesnt matter how long he had been fighting he was fsr more wild in 2008 then 2012 which is why Aoki was able to do absolutely nothing in the rematch.

Aoki is good for his time which was the very start of LW where it was still in chaos and fighters were all over the place around the world, in retrospect most of Aokis wins never amounted to much and were also overrated based on the chaos of the division at the time, JZ is a perfect example of this.

Explain the exact moments where Eddie was wild against Shinya in the first fight and wasn't in the second. It looks way more like Shinya actually tried to grapple in the first fight and in the second he shot for one really bad single-leg from way too far out and didn't try to get a clinch once, and thought that throwing a lead-elbow from too far out (again) against a guy with an extremely good counter-right was a good idea.

Also, didn't JZ have, like, 3 knee surgeries, and didn't a lot of people feel he deserved the decision win against Thomson?

 

[tinobar]

.

I mean let's look at top lightweights in 2008-2010; DREAM had Shaolin, JZ, Hansen, Aoki, Alvarez and Kawajiri. Meanwhile, UFC had BJ, Florian, Sherk, Sanchez, Edgar, Maynard, Stevenson, Tyson Griffin, Guida, Diaz, Tibau, Lauzon, Pearson, Dos Anjos, etc. Then you had Melendez, Thomson floating around in Strikeforce. I would confidently say that not a single one of those DREAM guys would ever defeat a single one of those UFC guys, not even a chance. Maybe Alvarez, since he could actually wrestle and could nullify some of the lesser tier guys like, but there's no way those DREAM guys could beat a single top 10 UFC guy. I mean you think someone like Hansen could take on even a Clay Guida, who was a fringe top 10 UFC Lightweight? Or even a Joe Lauzon? Diaz? There's just no chance. Those guys would get absolutely massacred by any of the top 15 UFC guys, and Aoki beating a few of them just isn't as impressive as people pretend.

 

[Asurah]

Fighters get old, Aoki has been at it a long time and been on the wrong side of some brutal knockouts. Maybe he's not as into it these days, could be many things. It's not like he was invulnerable to absolutely embarrassing losses even in his prime though.

It's a shame to see so many treat him like he's just some journeyman, he was a legit top 5 guy for awhile with a great run in the late 2000s and the start of the 2010s.