wtf happened to ben Henderson?

cheesus said:
Yeah sure and speed is the first thing to go, generally athletes start slowing down around 32-35.

Todays mma ? You mean the same era that has seen the worst LHW/HW division we've ever had ? Or the fact that we have Michael Bisping, a competent yet a guy who has long time been considered a gatekeeper ?
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I said MMA as a whole, and if you think otherwise, please don't ever reply to me again because you're a complete dipshit that doesn't know what they are talking about. I never said those divisions had improved either, but the guys at the top certainly have. Problem is you have Cain getting injured, guys popping for PEDs, Rumble retiring, etc and there's so little talent to replace him because nobody that size does MMA.

Michael Bisping the guy that shredded through the LHW division you thought probably was the best ever and arguably beat Rashad? Then went up against a bunch of other guys on PEDs and lost?

He's improved. I know it's hard to believe...that people can actually improve their craft, especially when there is so much to learn in a sport in MMA. It happens get over it.
 
NotoriousMillions said:
I said MMA as a whole, and if you think otherwise, please don't ever reply to me again because you're a complete dipshit that doesn't know what they are talking about. I never said those divisions had improved either, but the guys at the top certainly have. Problem is you have Cain getting injured, guys popping for PEDs, Rumble retiring, etc and there's so little talent to replace him because nobody that size does MMA.

Michael Bisping the guy that shredded through the LHW division you thought probably was the best ever and arguably beat Rashad? Then went up against a bunch of other guys on PEDs and lost?

He's improved. I know it's hard to believe...that people can actually improve their craft, especially when there is so much to learn in a sport in MMA. It happens get over it.
Click to expand...

In terms of skill, I disagree. I think guys like Sudo, Sakuraba, Hughes, BJ Penn, Fedor, GSP and so on are just as equally skilled as todays greats. I think high level athleticism and fight IQ is becoming more apparent abroad but many of todays greats like Maia, Conor, Khabib, Wonderboy etc still have obvious flaws in their game.

Off topic but how on earth has Bisping shredded through the MW division ? He usually got a decent streak going before losing to an elite contender.. I do too think Bisping has improved, he seems to be more durable than ever for whatever reason, but is your memory really that short that you can't even remember that he got flat lined multiple times in his last fight by the same punch that landed nearly 10 years ago ? His commitment and circumstances more than ever are what landed him a title, possibly usada if you want to go down that path.
 
cheesus said:
In terms of skill, I disagree. I think guys like Sudo, Sakuraba, Hughes, BJ Penn, Fedor, GSP and so on are just as equally skilled as todays greats. I think high level athleticism and fight IQ is becoming more apparent abroad but many of todays greats like Maia, Conor, Khabib, Wonderboy etc still have obvious flaws in their game.

Off topic but how on earth has Bisping shredded through the MW division ? He usually got a decent streak going before losing to an elite contender.. I do too think Bisping has improved, he seems to be more durable than ever for whatever reason, but is your memory really that short that you can't even remember that he got flat lined multiple times in his last fight by the same punch that landed nearly 10 years ago ? His commitment and circumstances more than ever are what landed him a title, possibly usada if you want to go down that path.
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I never said guys today didn't still have flaws in their game. It's just they have significantly less. Part of that is athleticism. Part of that is the fact that these guys are training martial arts, more specifically MMA for longer periods than previous generations. Part of it is MMA as a sport is evolving and has evolved to look very different, especially when you look at the fine details of it.

And jesus christ is that a bad list of names. None of those guys you mentioned hold a candle to the guys of today with the exception of maybe GSP. That's not to say they still wouldn't be good fighters i.e. BJ Penn or Fedor since the HW division still sucks. However, they wouldn't nearly have the success they did during their time if you plucked them out of a time machine and placed them against the guys of today.

Now if they were just born later and competing now, that might be a different story. It's still hard to speculate how people adapt to certain things in martial arts. It's why when someone for example says a boxer just has to train some takedown defense and checks for a year and they'll become unstoppable doesn't know what they are talking about. Some guys will train their whole life and never even be decent at something, but could be masterful at something else. GSP will have a big spotlight on him these coming months. He himself knew MMA was passing him by and got out and focused on bettering himself and has said as much. A test to truly prove GSP can adapt to these situations and prove he's not just the GOAT in accomplishments but the GOAT in skill as well is on the line.

I also never said Bisping shredded through the MW division. He has quality wins though. He looked much better against Hendo. Bisping is very exposed to an overhand right, and he covered that up much better this time. Same thing with the Rockhold fight. This is an improved fighter. I'm not saying he is the best MW in the division, because I don't think he is although I don't think he's the bum now people thinks he is either. I'm just saying Bisping, like a lot of other fighters have gotten better with age because they are continuously learning unlike other people that mentally peak sooner in this game.

Look at Luke Rockhold who still looks like the same fighter for the past four years as an example to that.
 
NotoriousMillions said:
I never said guys today didn't still have flaws in their game. It's just they have significantly less. Part of that is athleticism. Part of that is the fact that these guys are training martial arts, more specifically MMA for longer periods than previous generations. Part of it is MMA as a sport is evolving and has evolved to look very different, especially when you look at the fine details of it.

And jesus christ is that a bad list of names. None of those guys you mentioned hold a candle to the guys of today with the exception of maybe GSP. That's not to say they still wouldn't be good fighters i.e. BJ Penn or Fedor since the HW division still sucks. However, they wouldn't nearly have the success they did during their time if you plucked them out of a time machine and placed them against the guys of today.

Now if they were just born later and competing now, that might be a different story. It's still hard to speculate how people adapt to certain things in martial arts. It's why when someone for example says a boxer just has to train some takedown defense and checks for a year and they'll become unstoppable doesn't know what they are talking about. Some guys will train their whole life and never even be decent at something, but could be masterful at something else. GSP will have a big spotlight on him these coming months. He himself knew MMA was passing him by and got out and focused on bettering himself and has said as much. A test to truly prove GSP can adapt to these situations and prove he's not just the GOAT in accomplishments but the GOAT in skill as well is on the line.

I also never said Bisping shredded through the MW division. He has quality wins though. He looked much better against Hendo. Bisping is very exposed to an overhand right, and he covered that up much better this time. Same thing with the Rockhold fight. This is an improved fighter. I'm not saying he is the best MW in the division, because I don't think he is although I don't think he's the bum now people thinks he is either. I'm just saying Bisping, like a lot of other fighters have gotten better with age because they are continuously learning unlike other people that mentally peak sooner in this game.

Look at Luke Rockhold who still looks like the same fighter for the past four years as an example to that.
Click to expand...

Don't know how you can say that...could you see someone like Tyron Woodley doing a Saku and competing at HW ? Because I sure fucking don't. Can you name me any other fighters in todays generation who obtained a black belt in less than 4 years like BJ ? Genki's unorthodox style even today would be effective, we've seen it time and time again with guys like Conor, Machida and so on. There are no current heavyweights like moved like Fedor aside from maybe Cain but he never had the scrambles or submission ability Fedor displayed, no one would dispute that.

Sorry but fucked up on my behalf there you did say LHW, which I still disagree with. Common opinion is he lost against Hamill, you might be right about the Shad fight it's been forever since I've seen it but aside from those two....he never really fought anyone....fuck I even remember Elvis Sinosic rocking him in their fight. There's a reason he moved down to MW, he didn't clear LHW because he didn't really fight anyone.
 
How many garbage decisions did he win? I’m thinking there were three fights he got lucky and won splits in that should have been L’s
 
NotoriousMillions said:
I never said guys today didn't still have flaws in their game. It's just they have significantly less. Part of that is athleticism. Part of that is the fact that these guys are training martial arts, more specifically MMA for longer periods than previous generations. Part of it is MMA as a sport is evolving and has evolved to look very different, especially when you look at the fine details of it.

And jesus christ is that a bad list of names. None of those guys you mentioned hold a candle to the guys of today with the exception of maybe GSP. That's not to say they still wouldn't be good fighters i.e. BJ Penn or Fedor since the HW division still sucks. However, they wouldn't nearly have the success they did during their time if you plucked them out of a time machine and placed them against the guys of today.

Now if they were just born later and competing now, that might be a different story. It's still hard to speculate how people adapt to certain things in martial arts. It's why when someone for example says a boxer just has to train some takedown defense and checks for a year and they'll become unstoppable doesn't know what they are talking about. Some guys will train their whole life and never even be decent at something, but could be masterful at something else. GSP will have a big spotlight on him these coming months. He himself knew MMA was passing him by and got out and focused on bettering himself and has said as much. A test to truly prove GSP can adapt to these situations and prove he's not just the GOAT in accomplishments but the GOAT in skill as well is on the line.

I also never said Bisping shredded through the MW division. He has quality wins though. He looked much better against Hendo. Bisping is very exposed to an overhand right, and he covered that up much better this time. Same thing with the Rockhold fight. This is an improved fighter. I'm not saying he is the best MW in the division, because I don't think he is although I don't think he's the bum now people thinks he is either. I'm just saying Bisping, like a lot of other fighters have gotten better with age because they are continuously learning unlike other people that mentally peak sooner in this game.

Look at Luke Rockhold who still looks like the same fighter for the past four years as an example to that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, bisping looked great being hurt several times and almost finished by 2016 hendo.
It was incredible how he managed to squeak a decision over a 50 year old man who hadn't looked good in years. Hall of fame material, that.

Bisping has one good win his entire career, against rockhold.
I think logic dictates it was a fluke instead of him somehow getting better in between almost getting finished and barely getting by geriatrics.
 
Guy had the biggest fucking legs at LW and couldn't hurt a god damn fairy. Shame he never trained his striking skills...
 
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