Wrestler with worst TDD

Phisher said:
Stick to it. Your argument is absurd.

It seems that you don't actually know what bad TD defense looks like.

A guy who can't competently defend TDs is going to get put on his back by a wrestler of Bader's caliber in that position no matter how sloppy the initial shot was.

I've seen it literally hundreds of times.
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Hundreds of times against Lil Nog, Perosh, and Saint pruex haha
 
ImNotSurpisedDonks! said:
Yah, Hendo is a weird one: KO's Fedor then gets wrestle fucked by Jake Fucking Shields. It does not get any weirder than that. Also, what is funny is that he used to be Jon Fitch 1.0 at the beginning of his career and then he turned in to a head hunter who was getting out wrestled by strikers.
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I still think shields is the greatest mma grappler ever. He outgrappled the best of the best. Watch his training footage with askren, he outgrapples askren.
 
ImNotSurpisedDonks! said:
Yah, Hendo is a weird one: KO's Fedor then gets wrestle fucked by Jake Fucking Shields. It does not get any weirder than that. Also, what is funny is that he used to be Jon Fitch 1.0 at the beginning of his career and then he turned in to a head hunter who was getting out wrestled by strikers.
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I've mentioned that on threads here before. Hendo's wrestling got awful in the last 10years. The last time Hendo really looked to use his wrestling and was good at it was way back in 2007 against Rampage and he still lost that fight. A year later against Silva he looked good for a single round then gassed, got hurt and stopped. After that, like you aid, he became a headhunter and often got out-wrestled even by strikers.
 
Romero does not care about wrestling at all until he feels like standing back up.


karateisundratd said:
Which wrestler has the worst take down defence? IMO it is Chael, he was taken down easily by Rashad, Jones and Maia, on the other Tyron and Colby were easily able to keep it on the feet against Maia, despite being much smaller.
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Maia is bigger than Woodley?
 
Probably Chael or Hendo. Romero has bad TDD by choice. He knows you're not doing shit to him if you take him down.
 
Don Frye was strong as hell and a very good wrestler. If the thread is strictly referring to skill then maybe he doesn't fit but he's always been stiff as a board which made it easier than it should've been for competent grapplers to throw him off balance. An exhausted Gary Goodridge got him down at UFC 8 and he wasn't even a great wrestler. Amaury Bitetti was a bjj guy that Frye had a good 30 lbs on and if fence grabbing weren't legal back then he would've taken him down too.
 
Airdack said:
I still think shields is the greatest mma grappler ever. He outgrappled the best of the best. Watch his training footage with askren, he outgrapples askren.
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Hmmmm....that is a really interesting stance to take and something I have never heard anyone say. For sure, he was a pioneer for combining American wrestling with BJJ, but the reason I'd have to disagree with you that he is 'the best MMA grappler in history' is because he lacked the TD threat that guys like GSP, Jones, Cormier and even Khabib have. He had a great mixture of wrestling and BJJ, it was very effective, but when paired against other great wrestlers (GSP/Fitch/Ellenberger) or other great grapplers (Paul Harris/Lombard), he ended up not being so successful. Someone like GSP or Jones was able to impose their hi-level grappling on other high level grapplers and beat them where they were best. Shields is definitely one of the more under rated fighters in history, owing to his not gaining a UFC strap and what many considered to be a boring style.
 
lepsahekim said:
John Jones, Randy Couture?
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Taking about Hendos fighting style.

Yes im well aware of couture. But couture could usually use his experience and secure a clinch before getting put on his back.
 
ImNotSurpisedDonks! said:
Romero developed Hendonitis: an Olympic wrestler who falls in love with taking people's heads off and then ends up getting out wrestled by BJJ guys and strikers.
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Romero never gets held down or controlled though. He just doesn't worry about getting taken down because he can get right back up.
 
How about Frank Mir?

As I recall he was a high school state champion wrestler, but can't hit a TD in MMA to save his life (literally he has been beaten half to death in fights where he would have been much better off taking the fight to the ground).
 
Recently, how about Cummins?

I think he was a D1 wrestler.

Dude got annihilated grappling with Beastin' 25/8 which I think set records at LHW for amount of times taken down.
 
I don't think I have ever seen anyone not successfully get Werdum to his back, I don't think Werdum even trains sprawling.
 
Phisher said:
Romero doesn't seem to care about getting taken down if he's not focused on wrestling.


Look at the Weidman fight. Weidman took him down multiple times. However, when Romero started actively engaging the grapping exchanges at the end of the second round, it was clear that he was levels above Weidman in skill and athleticism.


It might be an energy management thing.
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I don't think it has to do with energy management. Stopping a takedown is a lot less taxing than getting back up from one imo.

I think it's just a mindset thing. Sometimes during grapple-boxing sessions I get taken down by guys who I'm a significantly better wrestler than. It's not because I intentionally let them. I'm just focused on striking and don't change my mindset quickly enough when someone times an attempt well. When I buckle down and give a shit about wrestling, they can't take me down anymore but I am usually less fluid with my striking at that point. I think it's the same with Romero.

Guys who can always transition seamlessly are special.
 
I guess Werdum isn't a wrestler, Brock was pretty easily taken down by Cain Velasquez that led to a finish.
 
Phisher said:
Hendo was a weird case.

Plenty of fights where he didn't even look like he had a wrestling background, but he seemed to be able to turn in on when he wanted to do.

He did an excellent job of stalemating Rashad in their fight even though he was clearly past it and off TRT at the time.
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People have this weird idea that just because you wrestled in one form that you magically become good at the two other widely accepted forms and the plethora or others that are not widely considered wrestling, such as catch. Dan wrestled Greco, doesn't mean he will be able to deal with folkstyle or freestyle when he encounters it.

I would have to say that Sara McMann is someone who had a style of wrestling I consider to be much better for translating to MMA that has poor TDD and TD set up in general.
 
ImNotSurpisedDonks! said:
Damn straight there was nothing funny about the Shields fight, seeing as I love Hendo and dislike Shields. It was the most frustrating thing seeing him getting ragdolled, knowing full well he is an Olympic caliber wrestler and Shields is a high school level wrestler who trains with the Diaz bros. props to Shields for weathering the storm, but it is still does not make the pill easier to swallow.
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I know Dan is “Olympic” level wrestler, but, I would take Shields over him in a grappling contest anyday of the week. People seem to sleep on how good of a grappler/fighter Jake Shields was.
 
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