Would it be morally wrong? Immigration question

[JamesRussler]

JFC, you're a fucking dip shit. Do you realize how ludicrously few US citizens are descendants of the Founding Fathers? Hell, all of English Americans make up only 7% of the entire US population. Yet you are arbitrarily imputing some moronic patriotism and quasi-traditionalism to millions of German, Irish, French, and Italian American communities because....well, because you're a dip shit.

The level of simultaneous historical ignorance, delusions of philosophical grandeur, and revisionist white anxiety in this post is staggering. You have absolutely no concept of the illusory historical artifact of government in this country and how generations of Americans viewed and revered (or failed to revere) it.

Also, LOL @ thinking the US government arbitrarily or philanthropically opened itself to immigrants: the entirety of US immigration law has bee historically based in economic utility. And it worked: the United States became the most productive economy in world history during the 20th century.


For real, this is probably the most pathetic, vitriolic, and discernibly Hitler-esque post I have seen here. And I do not believe I have ever compared a poster to Hitler before.

Bruh, let's be honest: you compare everyone you disagree with to Hitler.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

On the contrary, it would be more moral than burdening yourself with an illegal underclass who's non-skills could more efficiently be automated, or bringing in people with skills that could better serve fixing the problems of their home countries.

 

[El anciano]

It absolutely would.

 

[7437]

I consider willful stupidity to be immoral, so yes.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Based on....?

Let me guess, you read that as me saying that allowing immigration was neither smart nor warranted.

 

[Brazilian HKD]

Its not a moral issue per se. Korea and Japan are tough on immigration. As an immigrant who became American and served as social worker, I can say that ilegall immigration has to stop, specially from central american countries. The amount of crime, prostitution , sex rings and abuse of welfare it's just unbeliavable. It is just baffling that they come without any sense of respecting the locals and think that they need to change the country just like their countries of origin. It's just unbeliavable that you see child rapists getting free passes because the police can't or won't do anything so they wont be called racists. And yeah, I witnessed such thing happening.The authorities didnt do crap

 

[Trotsky]

Let me guess, you read that as me saying that allowing immigration was neither smart nor warranted.

Goddammit, yes, sorry. I was pissy from that one idiot's post and forgot the posture of the question. That's my bad.

 

[Trotsky]

Bruh, let's be honest: you compare everyone you disagree with to Hitler.

Care to provide some evidence? As I said, I don't think I've ever posed that any particular poster or even post was Hitler-esque. The only poster resembling Hitler's ideology that I can think of was RIPWarrior, and he was banned long ago.

On top of that, you freely generalize and disparage white people in ways that you would never wish upon members of your own race.

Nope. There are many thoughtful, compassionate, and intelligent white persons on this board and elsewhere. I will criticize white electoral manifestations in this country, as should anyone.

That's because you don't hate racism – you hate white people. You resent the fact that you have benefitted so much from white American enterprise, because you hate the idea that you should actually thank white people for something. Above all, you hate the fact that this great American experiment had nothing to do with you or your ancestors. If that bothers you so much, maybe you should find something be proud of other than the achievements (or lack thereof) of your ancestors. As you pointed out, not all of us descended from Thomas Jefferson, and that is okay.

FWIW, you may be interested to know that I'm not 100% white. That probably bothers you too, because in your mind it's okay to disparage white people. It makes it harder for you to dismiss my opinion.

So you can't defend your post against my criticism, nor reconcile your silly imputation of what you mistake as Founder ideals.

Okay, I'll take that white flag. Thank you very much.

 

[Trotsky]

I consider willful stupidity to be immoral, so yes.

This is the moral quandary of our time, pretty clearly.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Goddammit, yes, sorry. I was pissy from that one idiot's post and forgot the posture of the question. That's my bad.

I get things wrong all the time. No worries.

 

[Scheme]

No, it is not morally wrong. In fact, it is morally wrong not to suspend all immigration.

Our forefathers fought for their independence from the rest of the world so that they and their children could live in peace, in a nation which reflected their own values and traditions. They anticipated that their great, great, great, great, great, great grandchildren, and their descendants in perpetuity, would inherit this country, and that they would be guaranteed rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of private property so long as they found themselves within its borders. They anticipated that population growth would derive predominantly from their own families, and the families of their civic-minded countrymen, and not from foreign journeymen seeking wealth. They designed the government so that it would reflect the will of citizens, and so that power could not be easily usurped by opportunistic outsiders. Indeed, this may be said of almost every nation on Earth. Loyalty to one's own, to the exclusion of others, is the essence of nationhood.

Nevertheless, our government (speaking specifically of the USA) had one fatal flaw: it did not clearly outlaw birthright citizenship for immigrants merely present on our soil. Over time, it allowed populations with zero appreciation for this country's freedoms, and zero affinity for its founders, to propagate and congregate in large masses. These groups now wield political power, though they have little historical connection to the country itself. Naturally, as minorities, they are aggrieved. Because their ancestors did not build this country, they perceive this country's history as that of "dead white men." Thus, our history, customs, traditions, holidays, etc. – all of it is easily discarded, as it is utterly meaningless to them. Because their ancestors fled, rather than fought for their homelands, they perceive firearms and offensive speech as inherently evil, rather than as deterrents against evil. Because their ancestors came here expecting personal wealth, they value their citizenship only so far as it guarantees them personal wealth. For many, their concept of government is purely transactional: "what can the government give me?" In this regard, their relationship to government is akin to that of a child seeking an allowance. If they receive no allowance, they will throw a tantrum. They will never feel at home in this country, no matter how many time-honored institutions they destroy. They will always perceive persecution from the majority, even as their own numbers grow, and as the majority shrinks to a mere plurality.

In short, we will never be united. By leaving open the floodgates of the third-world, we have doomed our descendants to fight yet another bloody war for independence. There is definitely something "morally wrong" with that.

I agree that with each generation of wealth-seeking immigrants looking to escape their hellholes, America loses a piece of itself. The pride of the nation has quickly been drained, partly because of immigration, but also due to the reality of how America has operated in the past and the constant bombardment of mainstream sources of anti-American rhetoric. I agree that third world immigration will slowly degrade a country's identity until it has none and simply becomes another globalist landmass. It is why I think countries like Japan are trying so hard to preserve it's culture by limiting immigration. And I definitely have an issue philosophically with a person who stepped foot in America on their first day having the same voting power as a person who has been living there for decades.

However, legal immigration was a key factor to America's rise to the top. Poaching the best of the best gave them a technological advantage in many key areas. Although nowadays I'm not so sure that is valid anymore.

 

[JamesRussler]

Care to provide some evidence? As I said, I don't think I've ever posed that any particular poster or even post was Hitler-esque. The only poster resembling Hitler's ideology that I can think of was RIPWarrior, and he was banned long ago.



Nope. There are many thoughtful, compassionate, and intelligent white persons on this board and elsewhere. I will criticize white electoral manifestations in this country, as should anyone.



So you can't defend your post against my criticism, nor reconcile your silly imputation of what you mistake as Founder ideals.

Okay, I'll take that white flag. Thank you very much.

Why don't you explain how I'm "Hitler-esque?" You made the claim, so you have that burden of proof. I'd be very surprised if that was the first time you made such an accusation.

You have avowed to "criticize white electoral manifestations in this country." Isn't that racism per se? Isn't racism bad?

Your prior post didn't really contain any substantive criticism. You opened up with an insult. You misinterpreted my argument as suggesting that all Caucasian Americans were in fact descended from the county's Founders. You followed that up with another string of ad hominem attacks, in typical Trotsky fashion. You are clearly fond of meaningless abstractions and unnecessary adjectives, which results in literary travesties like your reference to "the illusory historical artifact of government." You probably thought that language made you sound educated, but you ended up sounding like a community college dropout with a thesaurus. Talk about "delusions of philosophical grandeur!" Your post was just too cringey to take seriously. You could have saved yourself time by typing "You're wrong." Don't quit your day job, Farrakhan. Your writing sucks.

 

[JamesRussler]

k

 

[jeffk]

Say you are an American and want to retire and buy a beach house in Panama and they will give you residency rights for a fee.

An interesting question to me, should Americans be able to sell their citizenship to a friend or the highest bidder?

 

[MicroBrew]

My gf is an immigrant between statuses at the moment.

Fun fact, all the illegal immigrants she knows(she works in the restaurant industry) commit social security fraud. She doesn't cause she's super close to getting her papers and it's not worth the risk.

Also the ticket on marrying an illegal immigrant so they can become a citizen is 20k. Who wudda guessed?

How do they commit SS fraud? Genuinely curious .

 

[forum poster]

Hi all,

Would you guys consider it morally wrong to suspend all immigration? It seems that we have plenty of people from all walks of life. Wouldn't it be sensible to close the borders and focus our resources on fixing the multitude of problems we face?

Thanks!

Morally, no. But it would be pretty damn stupid.
Seeing as though we're on an MMA forum, it would be pretty stupid to stop all international fighters from living and training in the US just because they have some anti-immigrant crusaders in the country.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

JFC, you're a fucking dip shit. Do you realize how ludicrously few US citizens are descendants of the Founding Fathers? Hell, all of English Americans make up only 7% of the entire US population. Yet you are arbitrarily imputing some moronic patriotism and quasi-traditionalism to millions of German, Irish, French, and Italian American communities because....well, because you're a dip shit.

The level of simultaneous historical ignorance, delusions of philosophical grandeur, and revisionist white anxiety in this post is staggering. You have absolutely no concept of the illusory historical artifact of government in this country and how generations of Americans viewed and revered (or failed to revere) it.

Also, LOL @ thinking the US government arbitrarily or philanthropically opened itself to immigrants: the entirety of US immigration law has bee historically based in economic utility. And it worked: the United States became the most productive economy in world history during the 20th century.


For real, this is probably the most pathetic, vitriolic, and discernibly Hitler-esque post I have seen here. And I do not believe I have ever compared a poster to Hitler before.

Lol cmon... Throwing the Hitler word at someone? Cringy overly defensive minorities and white limpwrists who do this are the worst snd should just be laughed at while pointed at.

The ilk that does this are at the bottom of the food chain in America, right there with the fake ass Nazis, West Boro Baptist church and school shooters.

 

[Prokofievian]

No, not morally wrong. Just stupid. Pants on head stupid.

What made America what it is, is the fact that you can become American. If you end that, you end the American project, IMO.

 

[HIMBOB]

No, it is not morally wrong. In fact, it is morally wrong not to suspend all immigration.

Our forefathers fought for their independence from the rest of the world so that they and their children could live in peace, in a nation which reflected their own values and traditions. They anticipated that their great, great, great, great, great, great grandchildren, and their descendants in perpetuity, would inherit this country, and that they would be guaranteed rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of private property so long as they found themselves within its borders. They anticipated that population growth would derive predominantly from their own families, and the families of their civic-minded countrymen, and not from foreign journeymen seeking wealth. They designed the government so that it would reflect the will of citizens, and so that power could not be easily usurped by opportunistic outsiders. Indeed, this may be said of almost every nation on Earth. Loyalty to one's own, to the exclusion of others, is the essence of nationhood.

Nevertheless, our government (speaking specifically of the USA) had one fatal flaw: it did not clearly outlaw birthright citizenship for immigrants merely present on our soil. Over time, it allowed populations with zero appreciation for this country's freedoms, and zero affinity for its founders, to propagate and congregate in large masses. These groups now wield political power, though they have little historical connection to the country itself. Naturally, as minorities, they are aggrieved. Because their ancestors did not build this country, they perceive this country's history as that of "dead white men." Thus, our history, customs, traditions, holidays, etc. – all of it is easily discarded, as it is utterly meaningless to them. Because their ancestors fled, rather than fought for their homelands, they perceive firearms and offensive speech as inherently evil, rather than as deterrents against evil. Because their ancestors came here expecting personal wealth, they value their citizenship only so far as it guarantees them personal wealth. For many, their concept of government is purely transactional: "what can the government give me?" In this regard, their relationship to government is akin to that of a child seeking an allowance. If they receive no allowance, they will throw a tantrum. They will never feel at home in this country, no matter how many time-honored institutions they destroy. They will always perceive persecution from the majority, even as their own numbers grow, and as the majority shrinks to a mere plurality.

In short, we will never be united. By leaving open the floodgates of the third-world, we have doomed our descendants to fight yet another bloody war for independence. There is definitely something "morally wrong" with that.

Maybe they thought a country built by immigrants had something to gain from immigration.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I support a ban on legal immigration until wage growth outpaces inflation.