Work out or sleep?

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Fedorgasm, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. Fedorgasm Red Belt

    Fedorgasm
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    8,664
    Likes Received:
    5,223
    I work really long hours, so i find that I'm faced with this decision quite often.

    I don't get enough sleep and I'm also trying to get in shape. But if i have 7 hours until i have to wake up, should i spend an hour working out even though it means I'm only going to get 5 hours sleep? (1 hour workout + 1 hour shower and relax time, since you can't fall asleep immediately after exercise)

    I know your muscles need proper rest or they don't grow, so the correct answer is to do both, exercise and get 8 hours sleep, but for those occasions where both is not possible, which one should i choose?

    And is the answer different for lifting than for cardio?
     
    #1
  2. ThunderL1ps Black Belt

    ThunderL1ps
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    5,620
    Likes Received:
    1,913
    Your workout doesn't have to be an hour. You can get a good workout in with 15-30 minutes that will work both strength and cardio.

    There is always working out in the morning then going to bed later on is a non-issue. It just all depends on how dedicated you are to waking up earlier and making it happen.
     
    #2
  3. ericaz White Belt

    ericaz
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    88
    What i would do since idk your goals, is two major muscle groups a day doing the major lifts for those muscle groups.

    lifting 3x a week separate your days so you always have a rest day between so your catching up on your sleep after each workout.

    cardio can be 2x a week.

    like i said idk your goals and what i just wrote is very basic its what i do when i get really busy with life
     
    #3
    powerBJJ likes this.
  4. PUO3 You are a can.

    PUO3
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    49,285
    Likes Received:
    25,830
    Location:
    Sippin lean
    Workout. You will be fine without another hour.

    I work 12 hour shifts and go between nights and days so I definitely know the feelings. It can be hard, but if you have a goal you want to reach youll manage.
     
    #4
    powerBJJ likes this.
  5. Midnighter Red Belt

    Midnighter
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    7,918
    Likes Received:
    1,556
    I haven't slept since 1978.

    You don't need sleep, don't believe the hype.
     
    #5
    KotovSyndrome, powerBJJ and Fahcough like this.
  6. Fahcough Brown Belt

    Fahcough
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    4,429
    Likes Received:
    7,235
    Location:
    South, the deep south
    The workout vs sleep is like the do I workout if I haven't eaten in 8 hours and feel body dragon ass and slowing down
     
    #6
    powerBJJ likes this.
  7. deadshot138 Brown Belt

    deadshot138
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2014
    Messages:
    4,793
    Likes Received:
    1,923
    12 hour shifts? You mean the 'dog doesn't pay mods enough to live without secondary income?
     
    #7
  8. LatFlare EADC

    LatFlare
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Messages:
    6,813
    Likes Received:
    2,549
    Location:
    Ya mum
    Do you have a link to those studies about doing a 45 min workout in 15 mins?
     
    #8
  9. Bloodhy Blue Belt

    Bloodhy
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    855
    Likes Received:
    279
    You have to find the balance between training and recovery. If you go balls out for an hour everyday and sleep 5 hrs, it might be too much and you will not recover. On the other hand, if you go to the gym and perform the minimum amount of work needed to see gains despite the 5-6 hours of sleep, then you will improve. I would figure out what is the amount of work you can perform and recover from, and then progressively increase from there.

    I'd be interested to know how HIIT works for you. On the positive side, it's less time consuming and you get more hours of sleep, but on the negative side, it induces more fatigue than LSD...
     
    #9
  10. Fahcough Brown Belt

    Fahcough
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    4,429
    Likes Received:
    7,235
    Location:
    South, the deep south
    This monster issue here.

    How do you know what's adequate sleep? I saw a note somewhere the other day that said "Don't set your alarm on your off (work) day; when you wake up is how much sleep you need.
     
    #10
  11. Sano Brown Belt

    Sano
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2011
    Messages:
    4,820
    Likes Received:
    7,474
    Location:
    Denmark
    Solid study the PLOS one. Also, I think it's the longest duration wise I've seen of HIT protocol training. There is definitely no doubt that HIT, at least to some degree, works very well for many things with less time investments. However I think it's important to acknowledge that they are not the same, and do have different adaptions. There are some caveats with the HIT studies out there which a lot of people neglect. First of all are the parameters. Yes, HIT increases Vo2max equally with less investment AND is even better for transporting glucose away from the bloodstream. It's also an excellent way to generally combat metabolic syndrome, and excellent, in accordance with strength training, for most diabetics. However when it comes to the amount of oxidative enzymes and ability to transfer FFAs away from the bloodstream it is debateable. The creation of additional myoglobin in muscles and the capillary network is not going to be as great with HIT, compared to LISS, and the fibertype characteristics go towards either ST or FT depending on the modality.

    The arterial adaptions are also different between the two, highlighted in this study with obese adults: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27255523
    This study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27500951 showed that myocardial vascular hyperaemic reactivity was impaired after HIT training, meaning that the bloodflow back to the coronary arteries after HIT was impaired, which is not optimal for someone in poor shape or with heart problems.

    Most importantly is the central adaptions of the heart. The majority of these HIT studies are simply too short to gauge the proper cardiac hypertrophy effects with HIT training. That or they do not measure them. There is preliminary evidence showing that HIT is certainly not a good training modality when it comes to subjects who are already hypertensive. This study, also from PLOS, highlights some of that: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4372563/ Disclaimer, it was done in rats, but it did manage to test for some of the markers that other studies have not. Hypertensive rats showed a marked reduction in the fibrous tissue of the left ventricle (fibrous tissue is scar tissue which can form in the heart muscle over time with high bloodpressure) with LISS training. It also improved the capillary/fibre ratio markedly. HIT did not improve these factors, actually, it worsened some of them. Here is another simular one in hypertensive rats: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25855305

    Obviously in healthy subjects the story is different, but what it really comes down to is eccentric vs concentric cardiac hypertrophy. The differences has been somewhat well established in endurance trained athletes vs power or strenght athletes: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2300466/
    http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?scr...0100-879X2011007500112&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

    Eccentric cardiac hypertrophy primarily increases stroke volume and creates a larger and more flexible ventricle (heart chamber), while concentric cardiac hypertrophy increases left ventricle thickness and rigidity. Both have their uses and obviously it's roughly sketched because they overlap somewhat. Still, what drives concentric cardiac hypertrophy is the increase in blood pressure and less diastolic filling (when the heart fills with blood). During HIT some of the same principles are in play, like high blood pressure. The heart also pumps so fast that the diastolic filling is cut short, leading to a more concentric oriented hypertrophy adaption. It is not pathological, like it is when you have chronic high blood pressure, but long term you simply do not reap the same endurance benefits as you do with LISS. The adaptions are different.

    There are more, but I wont keep harping on. Like different energy systems, endothel oxidation, plasma levels in the blood and blood thickness (hematocrit value) and more. I wrote about som in a more reader friendly way some time ago here:
    http://forums.sherdog.com/posts/128248557/

    Last thing I want to mention is parasympathetic vs sympathetic nervous activity and recovery. HIT training is predominantly sympathetic. It's high fueled, adrenaline and action. That will eat into your recovery time and can lead to overworking if not done at the right. That is just keeping it brief, because recovery very much benefits from LISS training.

    So while it cuts training time, sympathetic activity can impact sleep negatively, especially if done before bedtime. It also mean you might need more sleep to recover, than you would doing LISS.

    Both modalities are great, both are needed for an athlete, but they are not the same. IMO, you build capacity and base first (LISS) and then work towards HIT, so it depends on the person.

    Anyway, sorry for the long winded article, but I feel like it's important to contextualise the HIT craze.
     
    #11
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
    corpse and TheBookofSpeed like this.
  12. JimRussel Purple Belt

    JimRussel
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,204
    Likes Received:
    1,060
    No, you can't.

    But that's fine.
     
    #12
    Fahcough and corpse like this.
  13. JonJonesLines Orange Belt

    JonJonesLines
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2017
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    288
    Squat/Bench/Deadlift/Press 3x5
    An accessory lift depending on the main exercise for the day
    Then a 10min TABATA.
     
    #13
  14. ThunderL1ps Black Belt

    ThunderL1ps
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    5,620
    Likes Received:
    1,913
    Yes you can.
     
    #14
  15. Grrrr BE NICE

    Grrrr
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Messages:
    6,398
    Likes Received:
    4,800
    Location:
    MD
    I am in the same boat....12 hr shifts/rotating shift work/nights and days. Make it work. What else can you do.
     
    #15
  16. Clippy RESORT CLIPPY IS HERE!! I'm on a BOAT!!!!!

    Clippy
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    19,519
    Likes Received:
    44,394
    Location:
    An office
    Sleep with as many blankets as you can find on, you'll sweat to death and get your heart rate up while shedding pounds and catching Zzzzzz
     
    #16
    Roca likes this.
  17. spin_ Silver Belt

    spin_
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    12,359
    Likes Received:
    5,783
    you dont have to workout everyday.

    some schedules just can't accommodate that.

    so pick 1 or 2 workdays a get more sleep the others.
     
    #17
    Sano likes this.
  18. Sano Brown Belt

    Sano
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2011
    Messages:
    4,820
    Likes Received:
    7,474
    Location:
    Denmark
    I mean it's about balance. HIT training, or better explosive and fast work, is always beneficial to an athlete. It's just not a replacement for LISS, but again, it depends on what your sport requires. I wouldn't go as far as to say that HIT is inherently dangerous or anything, just use smart programming. The whole fitness wave of "you can sit on your couch all day and then kill yourself for 10 minutes 3 times a week and be totally healthy!" is misleading as hell though.

    In regards to HIT training for speed? Are you talking work more of a plyometric nature, or power endurance, or actual HIT?

    I definitely think high intensive training is a must for fighting, but being in control of the output during a fight is what really lets you carry energy through the rounds. If we're talking something like wrestling it's a bit different.

    I get what you're saying about mimicking time and intensity of a round in your S&C work. I would probably think about the periodization they are in and what purpose the training has. I think it's a good idea to have blocks of less sport specific workouts when it makes sense. Like for ironing out weaknesses, injury prevention, rehabbing, working on aerobic capacity, working on max strength or whichever.
     
    #18
  19. PUO3 You are a can.

    PUO3
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    49,285
    Likes Received:
    25,830
    Location:
    Sippin lean
    Its an outrage isnt it?
     
    #19
  20. PUO3 You are a can.

    PUO3
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    49,285
    Likes Received:
    25,830
    Location:
    Sippin lean
    Be a fat lazy can. But I already did that and didnt like it lol.
     
    #20
    Grrrr likes this.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"