I just get a feeling that fighters like tyrone and hector have limited potential in MMA, due to their freakish muscle mass. Last night I saw two explosive and technical fighters, who couldn't keep up a hectic pace for more than 1 round
"Woodleys and Lombards"
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Woodleys and Lombards = overhyped
Lets watch Woodley cuddle up when he gets overwhelmed by Hendricks, and why not watch lombard gas walking out because he jived a little too much to his entrance music.
We all know who is next for the title shot
Lets watch Woodley cuddle up when he gets overwhelmed by Hendricks, and why not watch lombard gas walking out because he jived a little too much to his entrance music.
We all know who is next for the title shot
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What a strat
In all fairness, I did mention that Aldo's cardio was not brilliant, but that he makes up for it with insane talent and sound tactics
ewauksonian
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To be fair to Aldo, he isn't a hulking mass of muscle.
In any case, I think the problem is what KIND of muscle you have. If you look at Hendricks, who's strong as fuck, he's a got a lot of muscle, but it isn't necessarily the bulging kind, but the kind that gives him power, strength, AND endurance. He's less likely to throw or ragdoll people (though not by much less), but he doesn't need, and can last for much longer.
I bet Hendricks or even a skinny guy like Askren has more "pink" muscle than "red" muscle like Lombard or Woodley.
In any case, I think the problem is what KIND of muscle you have. If you look at Hendricks, who's strong as fuck, he's a got a lot of muscle, but it isn't necessarily the bulging kind, but the kind that gives him power, strength, AND endurance. He's less likely to throw or ragdoll people (though not by much less), but he doesn't need, and can last for much longer.
I bet Hendricks or even a skinny guy like Askren has more "pink" muscle than "red" muscle like Lombard or Woodley.
true, and yet he seems to be very well conditioned
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Weidman already looked a little tired in the first Silva fight...Just sayin
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I don't think it has a lot to do about cardio.
I think it's because of his massive cuts that drain so much of him physically.
Even though he might cut as much weight, or less than other fighters who can still maintain their cardio. I think because he's at a relatively low weight already that it greatly effects him.
I think we'll see Aldo compete in 5 rounders with ease cardio wise once he moves up to LW
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Great thread 10/10.
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Well they are a "type" of fighter: explosive power over endurance.
I sense a racial argument smoldering underneath this relatively benign and civil discussion. Can't wait to read "A-level athlete" after a page or two is written.
I agree with you in principle; especially since traditionally the best and most dominant champions of recent times have been praised for their conditioning, endurance and fortitude. Few power-hitter, ultra-athletic, explosive fighters - whether strikers or grapplers - have been champions lately. Aldo, Barao, Machida, Shogun, BJ and Silva are/were known for their amazing technique, while most other champions have been wrestlers with excellent conditioning (Cain, GSP, Edgar, Bendo, Couture, etc.) I mean fighters don't fit into an easy category, and some blur the lines pretty well, but the trend in MMA does favor endurance over almost everything; especially explosive power. Being explosive just seems so unreliable; especially when your opponent is renowned for being durable.
Honestly only JDS and Hendricks come to mind as the explosive fighters who have gained championships in recent times; and even they aren't on the extreme end of this "explosive" spectrum.
The Lombards and Woodley's are perhaps too polarized in their realm. Still...the way Condit's head was snapping back... Like how did he withstand that? Lol
I sense a racial argument smoldering underneath this relatively benign and civil discussion. Can't wait to read "A-level athlete" after a page or two is written.
I agree with you in principle; especially since traditionally the best and most dominant champions of recent times have been praised for their conditioning, endurance and fortitude. Few power-hitter, ultra-athletic, explosive fighters - whether strikers or grapplers - have been champions lately. Aldo, Barao, Machida, Shogun, BJ and Silva are/were known for their amazing technique, while most other champions have been wrestlers with excellent conditioning (Cain, GSP, Edgar, Bendo, Couture, etc.) I mean fighters don't fit into an easy category, and some blur the lines pretty well, but the trend in MMA does favor endurance over almost everything; especially explosive power. Being explosive just seems so unreliable; especially when your opponent is renowned for being durable.
Honestly only JDS and Hendricks come to mind as the explosive fighters who have gained championships in recent times; and even they aren't on the extreme end of this "explosive" spectrum.
The Lombards and Woodley's are perhaps too polarized in their realm. Still...the way Condit's head was snapping back... Like how did he withstand that? Lol
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This is a great observation, but one that has been brough up many times before and thinly masked as "such and such is a BEAST...until he is overrated when he can't put a top guy away and gasses".
There's a plethora of guys out there with explosive technique who can beat anyone on any night, but don't have championship round conditioning.
Woodley, Lombard, Guillard, Overeem, Carwin (and 99% of other HWs) are ones that come to mind. Powerhouses with (more than likely) poor 4th and 5th round conditioning.
That's the reason GSP gameplanned to wear BJ out in the first two rounds of their second fight. You can always weather a storm, and as the pedigree of champs have shown, it's far more consistently effective to be able to pressure explosive guys and drag them into conditioning wars than trying to put guys away early every time.
There's a plethora of guys out there with explosive technique who can beat anyone on any night, but don't have championship round conditioning.
Woodley, Lombard, Guillard, Overeem, Carwin (and 99% of other HWs) are ones that come to mind. Powerhouses with (more than likely) poor 4th and 5th round conditioning.
That's the reason GSP gameplanned to wear BJ out in the first two rounds of their second fight. You can always weather a storm, and as the pedigree of champs have shown, it's far more consistently effective to be able to pressure explosive guys and drag them into conditioning wars than trying to put guys away early every time.
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Who falls into the category of a "Woodley" or "Lombard"?
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You and Rogan are suffering from confirmation bias when it comes to muscle mass, neither man gassed and didn't really slow down much they just fight at a slower pace than guys like Hendricks and Condit.
Hector has gone to the championship rounds multiple times and has multiple finishes in those rounds.
Woodley still looked pretty fresh in round 4 against Marquardt though he got finished.
We also heard the same thing about Hendricks' cardio before he was scheduled for a 5 round fight.
Hector has gone to the championship rounds multiple times and has multiple finishes in those rounds.
Woodley still looked pretty fresh in round 4 against Marquardt though he got finished.
We also heard the same thing about Hendricks' cardio before he was scheduled for a 5 round fight.
