(WMMA) The myth that 115lbs is a deeper/better division than 135lbs. (JJs poor competition) | Page 8

Discussion in 'The Wasteland' started by Co-Co Zola, May 14, 2017.

  1. BigMuffler Pride of Ashlianna

    BigMuffler
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    No, you "know" that's not true. The same way people "knew" Holm would destroy Tate or Wonderboy would destroy Woodley aka biased EYES.
     
    #141
  2. Tachy Administrator

    Tachy
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    If you don't think she's the fighter to beat at 145, or her and Anderson is the fight to have, then I assume you just dislike her.
     
    #142
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  3. Tachy Administrator

    Tachy
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    Cyborg is the better fighter, but don't discount size and youth, of which Anderson has both
    The current 145 champ has nothing for either of them
     
    #143
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  4. xhaydenx Green Belt

    xhaydenx
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    I do agree that there are no SWs with stand out credentials out side of MMA except for JJ, Gadelha and a few others. Hill has had a few kickboxing fights and Felice was a kickboxing champ - not that you'd think it.

    One thing to remember with the 135ers is that there is going to be less of a talent pool the higher the weight class you go for the women. That's not just for MMA either. I mean, yeah, congrats on Mcman for being an olympic wrestler, but wasn't she like one of 4 or 5 competing in that? She certainly hasn't looked like some incredible wrestler in the UFC. Tate handled her and she was struggling hard to do anything against Murphy of all people.

    Holly's another one. Yeah, great boxing record but then she looked average against Pennington and Tate for the most part. I can forgive her for how Val schooled her, but other than Ronda, she hasn't really impressed.

    I like Zingano, but she got mauled by Pena, and I'm pretty sure Pena doesn't have any amazing credentials.

    All that aside though, I think your argument doesn't hold that much weight because at the end of the day this is MMA, not wrestling or kickboxing or BJJ. None of those outside sport achievements really matter once you enter the cage.

    Look at someone like Noons. Great boxer, but couldn't put it all together in MMA against these jack of the trade fighters. Holly's another one.

    And I think with WMMA just being a jack of all trades barely works at SW. Joanna might be a great striker, but she's got the counter wrestling and the clinch. Look at Tiffany Van Soest. Almost only a striker, had a lot of hype coming into Invicta. Got mauled by a 1-1 and fighter and didn't impress.
     
    #144
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  5. BigMuffler Pride of Ashlianna

    BigMuffler
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    Did you actually research this or is it based on "common sense"?

    Protip: common sense (or what many people regard as such) is shit. Especially when you're brainwashed by media to think 145-150 lbs is an "abnormal" weight for women who train grappling and might actually have muscles.
     
    #145
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  6. xhaydenx Green Belt

    xhaydenx
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    I totally misread that somehow. Whoops.
     
    #146
  7. Thuckey My love for you is diarrhea, I can't hold it in

    Thuckey
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    Sometimes you can tell just how fantastic a person is at something just by watching them do it regardless of the opponent.
     
    #147
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  8. Co-Co Zola Purple Belt

    Co-Co Zola
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    It's not so much having 'credentials' that's the benefit. It's having had a life time of training and then vast experience competing professionally.

    Valentina has been doing Muay Thai all her life, she has so much experience competing against the best female Muay Thai practitioners in the world. Competing in stand up fights where you can not 'panic wrestle' (or for grapplers, grappling where you can't strike your way out or to help you win, just pure grappling to get the job done). It really helps hone your skills.

    Their is a reason why the best strikers in WMMA such as Valentina, Joanna, Holly, Germaine all have such storied backgrounds.

    The other good strikers often are very powerful and aggressive rather than having the elite technique that comes with a life time of honing their craft. (I'm thinking of Cris Cyborg and Amanda Nunes here).

    This is the difference to me, at 115lbs. None of the fighters who Joanna has fought yet have that elite experience, that life time of dedication to have mastered striking. Joanna has such good TDD that the other ladies have to stand with her, and they can't hope to compete with her.

    Many 115lb fighters started training in less efficient striking arts, they often didn't compete professionally and many started training later in life.

    To be fair to Zingano, she had a long lay off and has had a hard time in recent years, she was undefeated in MMA until the Rousey fight where she messed up and she seems to have took it quite badly. Pena is a big strong girl who is a grinder, not a squash match for anyone, that's for sure. Even the best fighters can have poor fights or have their skills deteriorate.
     
    #148
  9. 58miles Purple Belt

    58miles
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    Unfortunately people are blinded by the Megan hype and won't see until she gets easily beat like she stole something by Cyborg, GDR or some other fighter.
     
    #149
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  10. ColombianFist "Es mejor ser rico que ser pobre"

    ColombianFist
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    I agree with you TS.

    But i doubt Joanna will got to 135, Shevchenko is there and she beat her in MT also, Holm and Nunes. While Joanna has top striking, she hasn't faced a similar striker with the same amount of training she has, most of her opponents does not have striking accolades or pro experience. Right now i don't see her getting beat since 115 is very thin.
     
    #150
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  11. Co-Co Zola Purple Belt

    Co-Co Zola
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    Cheers.

    She won't go to 135, but she may go to 125. The UFC are opening the 125lb division. Dana announced it a few weeks back.

    Valentina will likely (hopefully) make the cut, Joanna may go up. Hopefully they meet for the inargual title, if Valentina wins the 135lb belt, they could do a champion vs champion for the 2 division champion thing. A man can dream.

    (The likes of Holm & Nunes have no chance at making 125 that's for sure).
     
    #151
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  12. orangecuse Gold Belt

    orangecuse
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    It was always obvious why many here said that. Ronda is annoying, JJ more likable. They were embarrassingly even saying that back when the likes of Jessica Penne and Valerie were getting title shots. That's why they had/have no credibility or are just clueless and bias. When they had girls with not even ten pro fights in the top ten. Wasn't PVZ in top ten at one point or that terrible girl she beat Bec? 105lber Waterson was getting close to a title shot. Carla Esparza is the worst least skilled champ ever. It's hilarious that some people still think Jojo is some great fighter.
     
    #152
  13. Eater of Souls Guardian of the Gate

    Eater of Souls
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    Yeah, but Anderson does not have anything resembling head movement, striking defense or footwork. Only grappling we have seen did not look good either.
     
    #153
  14. Mark Zima Yaya Rincon avatar this time

    Mark Zima
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    Consider also Jorina Baars. Such a dominant world champion that she has sometimes had diffficulty for long stretches finding people willing to fight her. Nearly KO'd Cyborg more than once in their Muay Thai match with each other. How has she done in pro MMA? A record of 1-3, including a loss to Cindy Dandois (whose striking elicits boisterous mockery from Sherdoggers).
     
    #154
  15. carelessandheem Yellow Belt

    carelessandheem
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    135 seemed shallower then it was, because zigano and bethe fights gave ronda a huge buffer in the visibility of the competitiveness of the division. claudia and joanna were way ahead of everyone else, and it took till late last year to really figure that out

    cliffs and misinterpretations always exist in all weight-classes to this regard. but yeah, in prime rondowg era right after penne it seemed close at 115 and shallow at 135, and ronda lost and val gave a good fight so we assumed it was deep. then claudia made her way abck to the title, joanna won, then rose, tecia and waterson have all gone up and down trying to look like top 3 but never doing so, and karolina is the only other possible top 3 WSW and the fight with claudia will determine where these things tier off.

    i also blame WBW fighter performance for this. with bethe and pennington improving, davis semi-retiring, zigano's physical decline etc. it was hard to give credit to new WBW fighter with the belief that it is bums, good bums and ronda. holly, and val were a tough sell as prospects and pena still is.
     
    #155
  16. Blond Purple Belt

    Blond
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    Your argument has some merit, but from my experience 135 has a larger proportion of garbage fights.
     
    #156
  17. curryjunkie mixed marital arts...

    curryjunkie
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    she has made a career out of fighting much smaller, less experienced opponents, missing weight, juicing, suspect excuses for pulling out of weight targets and generally whining and bitching, in a division thinner than a runway model,so no i dont think she deserves to be up there with the likes of joanna, and megumi fuji
     
    #157
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  18. kirsky Blue Belt

    kirsky
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    I meant more women walks around 115- 125lbs weight ( 135lbs thats a lot for females my friend)... Division got like 2 years, 135 is older, in ufc 4 years ( before in strikeforce also).
    Saying 135lbs is most established div, meant youstopped following it like a year ago or so :)... Holm cyborg, germaine in 145 lbs now... so who stayed in 135lbs... retired ronda, kaufman + soccer moms... who zingano ? heh.
     
    #158
  19. dimspace Gold Belt

    dimspace
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    Germaine would comfortably beat Megan as well.

    Size and youth?

    Shes the same size.

    What benefit is youth exactly? What martial art is youth?
     
    #159
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  20. BigMuffler Pride of Ashlianna

    BigMuffler
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    No, this is the erroneous "common sense" that I'm referring to. You've been brainwashed by media to think that 140-150 lbs is an abnormal weight for women (especially women who train grappling who tend to build up muscle), foolish. The average American woman is 160+ lbs, yeah that's out of shape but if they train seriously they're not going to only lose fat, they'll also gain muscle so 145 walking around is a more realistic weight than 115 (tiny).
     
    #160
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
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