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Discussion in 'Archives' started by msmethurst, Jan 5, 2003.
Sorry Wing Chun. My comment was meant to Kung Fu practitioners. I recall you saying that you crosstrain and I also recall saying that was a good thing. All that iron shit is usless IMHO as well.
I took Wing Chun for nearly two years. It was a complete waste of time. We also trained some Mauy Thai and did full contact sparring. I found the Thai stuff more effective than the Wing Chun. I left Wing Chun to train pure Muay Thai after that. Since it was too far to drive to the muay thai school, I took up bjj because it was closer to my house.
The only technique I still use from Wing Chun is the pak sao (slap block). I haden't even seen any MMA events (including the UFC) at the time I quit Wing Chun... so the lack of success of Wing Chun in MMA was not a factor in my decision.
My advice... stick to Muay Thai and Boxing. Boxing will do WAY more for your hands than Wing Chun. Even TKD is better than Wing Chun. At least TKD will help you kick better. IMO Wing Chun is useless.
Nowadays we all have to crosstrain...
I have seen some sweet Wingchun moves and I like some of the drills they use.
Problem with Wingchun is, its hard to find a true "Master" in that style(Its easy to find watered down "Masters", thats the real problem), and it takes years of dedicated practice to get to a level that is good for street combat.
BTW I have a video clip of some Russian Wing Tsun from Imesh. If I knew how to put it on this forum I think alot of ppl would be impressed.
Couldn't have said it better. We have had the exact same expeience, down to the letter. I am not out to "bash" the Wing Chun guys, I just feel that the style is highly over rated and uses the name to promote a uneffective style.
No matter what styles you are going to mix, the ones you are training in are perfect. Honestly, I don't know why you bother with the KF unless you get some type of happiness out of it. That is all I am trying to get across.
I stick with Kung Fu because I enjoy it, mostly. I've progressed significantly fast in it (light brown sash in Wing Chun, blue sash in Sport Kung-Fu.) There's sort of a passion for it, not to mention a natural talent for martial arts in general. Not that I'm trying to blow my own horn or anything.
I started cross-training in Muay Thai because I wanted to fight in some amateur boughts, and I knew (as a fan of boxing, kickboxing, and MMA) that using just Wing Chun would get me no where. Also, perhaps the biggest reason why I decided to cross-train is a strange one. One of the members of a Sport Kung-Fu fighting team called the Fighting Dragons -- "Blast Dragon" -- fought much like a Muay Thai artist, and he proved to be quite successful in the ring. I wanted to fight like him, especially since my instructor often called me "Blast 2" aside from "Fury Dragon."
If you are any good, fuck the KF and hit your training hardcore.
Heheheh, to be honest that's what I've done recently. I feel bad about it, but I've sort of pushed my Wing Chun aside and focused most of my attention and efforts on weight lifting and Muay Thai. Unfortunately I only get to go to class once a week, and then use the Vut tapes for reference. My mother hates driving me out there, which sucks because it slows me down a bit.
Nonetheless, progression in Muay Thai seems to be extremely fast. It actually feels more natural than Wing Chun did. There's something about it that clicks, and just feels right.
It is not really that WC didn't click, its that Muay Thai is the shit for strikers. Get a divers license. I had no idea you were so young. Train hard , quit KF, and kick some ass.
I'm working on it. I already have a car. Paid for it with my own college money (I'm going to the military, don't need the college money much.) When the weather gets a little better, I'll go for it.
But as far as quitting KF is concerned, I doubt I'll do that. I enjoy it too much.
Time waisted. What ever makes you happy though.
Time wasted? I disagree. As I stated before, there are a lot of concepts within Wing Chun that are extremely useful in fighting. For example, the centerline concept, sensitivity training (helps a ton with grappling), chain punching (aka straight blast), awesome in-close fighting tactics (Can be used effectively from the clinch). Also, there is one thing that my lineage teaches that others do not, and that is what are called "eye exercises." We train our eyes to move quicker and be stronger through scientifically proven drills. This helps with timing, because you will see a kick developing as it comes and you can move or defend effectively, or apply stop-hits.
All of these concepts integrate wonderfully into my Muay Thai arsenal. Then on top of the traditional Wing Chun fighting tactics, I also have Sport Kung-Fu, which applies slightly different footwork and principles by simply elaborating off of its Wing Chun roots. There are countless examples of effective Sport Kung-Fu techniques and applications because it's designed for the competition scene and the ring.
I don't see this as a waste of time, but I guess it's all a matter of opinion.
Wing Chun/Tsun is not PROVEN in MMA. However, neither was Muay Thai until 3-4 years ago. So all those jumping on the bandwagon are basically numnuts.
It is a lack of proper full contact sparring in wing chun that has made ineffective fighters thusfar. Logically looking at the style however there are many useful traits it has for standup fighting.
-The best hand skills of any Oriental martial art, and a different approach to striking than the "stand and trade punches" philosophy of boxing. Wing chun is 'hit without being hit' at all costs
-No high kicks or any flashy moves. Only low thrusting kicks.
-Close quarter fighting skills using Knees and Elbows. Wing chun is supposed to not be realiant on strength. Clinching requires strength so Wing chun does not use this approach.
A guy who trains Wing Chun/Tsun for standup WILL have success in MMA at some point, as long as he has trained submission wrestling or another ground style as well. The huge amount of fighters that do ring sports like boxing and muay Thai outnumber them at the moment.
How many top MMA fighters trained pure Judo? Very few. But anyone with a brain cell knew that the style could be effective if applied with other skills, as Yoshida has now proven. Wing Chun/Tsun is the same and will be proven as a standup style in time.
I will believe it when I see proof. Until then: McDojo IMHO.