Wing chun is a bad martial art.

I don't know anything about WC, but here's what I've gathered:

- WC focuses on fighting in 'trapping range' which would be between 'long striking' range and clinching range.

- Like pretty much any other MA, it would give you a huge advantage vs. an untrained combatant in a fight.

- It has been suggested that it is a bad 'system' for a fighter. If I might try to interpret that, the problem is as follows: It is extremely difficult to force your opponent to fight at 'trapping range'. Vs a boxer, it will be difficult to avoid fighting at 'striking range'. Vs a grappler, it will be difficult to avoid clinching.

- It was suggested that WC developed as a response to other forms of kung fu. So perhaps where it was developed, most other trained combatants _preferred_ trapping range. WC then specialized in fighting in that range even further. When it originated, it might have then seemed 'invincible' - the only likely opponents either were untrained or would choose to fight at trapping range.

- The hand traps and some other techniques appear to be situationally effective.

- (not just from this thread) street effectiveness is somewhat different from ring effectiveness. On the street, you might be fighting a group, you might be fighting an armed opponent. That said, introduction of a knife to your opponent would - to me - make 'trapping range' even more undesireable. A karate style approach - keeping distance, jumping in to land one strike and jumping out - would likely be the best bet. Of course we can imagine scenarios where you would be in trapping range, but that doesn't mean it should be the _basis_ of your fighting set.

So ... would most people agree:
- WC could have some useful techniques for any fighter to use.
- WC as a primary basis, if intended to be used against other trained fighters, MUST address how to get and maintain the desired range.

Another question ... would 'trapping range' striking and parrying practice be useful in defending (or launching) GnP? The video of the two masters rolling around made me consider that the distance between heads/shoulders during GnP might be similar to 'trapping range'.


I agree with everything you said except the knife scenario. We saw how easy it was to get into "stab," range in one of the earlier videos. At that point, I'd much rather know a trapping based art with a heavy focus on blocking/parrying/deflecting than anything else. I'd say the answer to all your questions at the end was yes. Some of the guys I grapple/cross train with have experimented with trapping from guard positions and it works well to clear the head for strikes.


I agree with most of this. It appears that WC is only effective at this "trapping" range. How would you maintain this desired range against another experienced non-WC fighter?

I'm curious as to how this could be applied to GnP. Any WC practitioners here that have also experimented with trapping range with GnP?
 
look im a realist... i believe in "i dont believe it until i see it"

when the fuck have you ever seen anyone be effective with wing chun? i have a friend that does wing chun and ive seen him fight.... that shit wasnt wing chun at all.
 
and anyone who brings up bruce lee... come on man.... bruce himself stopped doing that wing chun shit and moved on to other more realistic arts.
 
Since its so easy to adapt punches to become eye gouges, why not just train boxing? Its punching is vastly superior.

Since Wing Chun wimps would get their asses kicked under MMA ruleset, they would surely get killed if their opponent can use whatever he wants to use on them.


I love this guy! Always good for a chuckle or two. Keep the TMA hate coming bro!
 
it's easier to block a traditional boxing punch or eyegouge when you have free hands. It's not easy to block an eyegouge when the WC guy traps your arms. no arms=no blocking.
 
and anyone who brings up bruce lee... come on man.... bruce himself stopped doing that wing chun shit and moved on to other more realistic arts.

Nope. The basis of JKD was always wing chun. He just added fancy kicks and stuff. The trapping aspect of jkd was called "hand imobilization".
 
90% of WC is grappling. They controll your body by uplifting you, similar to in sumo, and "pin" your arms.



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Trapping range is a grappling range. Most in this thread fail to realize this, and think that all the techniques are bs because they are not for striking,(and "wc is supposed to be a striking art") but in fact they are grapping techniques. Trapping=grappling. WC=Distance clinch fighting. You are in the clinch without the danger of your opponent grabbing a hold of you and throwing you to the ground.

The footwork in wc is similar to clinch footwork, and posters beleive it's bs because it does not look like strikers footwork, but that is because WC is a variant of clinch fighting. When you stand with strikers footwork in clinch range or in trapping range you are easy to TD. WC has clinch footwork.

Chi Sau, like in the vid, is the equivalent to wrestlers practicing "pummeling" in the clinch, at trapping range.


When you pin your opponent in wrestling it means that you win because your opponent is helpless on his back(at least that was the idea). When you pin your opponent's arms, in chi sao, he is helpless because you can hit him and he is defenseless. The same concept.

Lao sau is an armdrag, similar to wrestling, but from trapping range

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WC is primarily a grappling art(they are in the clinch without actually "clinching"), I know some have a very hard time with this concept. It's more accurate to call WC a grappling art, that incorporates striking, and that is why I suspect Carlson Gracie thinks it would be effective in MMA.
 
Yes I do both Wing Chun & BJJ at seperate schools and find a lot of similatities both being more so tactile arts......
 
90% of WC is grappling. They controll your body by uplifting you, similar to in sumo, and "pin" your arms.

Yeah, that is why it pwns all the top grapplers at the ADCC



Excuse me sir could you please back up FOOM FOOM FOOM

FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM
 
Can you show me footage of BJJ fighters intentionally breaking limbs in training?
I asked for clips of WC guys sparring or fighting but anyhow,
There's loads of clips on the Net of guys getting limbs broken, strangled unconscious etc by BJJ techniques.

you can join a bjj gym and refuse to tap..
Exactly mate.
There's some vicious BJJ players with a "tap or fucking lose it" mentality.
 
I asked for clips of WC guys sparring or fighting but anyhow,
There's loads of clips on the Net of guys getting limbs broken, strangled unconscious etc by BJJ techniques.


Exactly mate.
There's some vicious BJJ players with a "tap or fucking lose it" mentality.

There are loads of limbs being broken on video because breaking limbs is sanctioned by athletic commissions, and is also on TV.

Eyepokes are only used in self defense situations, and those are not usually on video. (Muggers don't usually like to be videotaped) . Add to the fact that WC is primarily in china, it becomes almost impossible to find a real mugging that someone who used eyepokes and also used WC, as there are many martial arts that use eyepokes. But there are tons of unintentional eyepokes on video, so that you can see the effects. Kos vs johnson

If I studied the art I would have a parner wear goggles and let me poke him in the eyes. Problem solved

Anyway I'm sure you have seen a women's self defense class where they bring a guy dressed in armor and let them kick him in the balls. there is your nut shot training. easily done.

[YT]JlZZsRCbQYs[/YT]

Here's how to develop your power without actually killing someone.

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Suffice it to say that if he didn't pull his strikes just before impact his opponent would be on the floor gasping for breath or dead. And if you don't beleive me have somone take their index and middle finger and jam it in that hole in your neck, you'll notice that you can't breathe. Plenty of time to eather continue hitting him or to run away.



You don't have to jab throats to be proficient at jabbing throats for the same reason that you don't have to break arms to be proficient at breaking arms.
 
I agree with most of this. It appears that WC is only effective at this "trapping" range. How would you maintain this desired range against another experienced non-WC fighter?

I'm curious as to how this could be applied to GnP. Any WC practitioners here that have also experimented with trapping range with GnP?

Think of the many times you've seen fights where one guy is stuck in the others guard trying to hit the guy on the bottom on the face, but the guy is blocking. Trapping immobilizes the arms, so the person on the bottom can't block. The moves also work in reverse, if you're the guy on the bottom to clear the top guys arm. Works well, especially if you happen to be sub minded and use the shots to set them up. I'm sure someone will tell me soon how there are plenty of other arts that teach the same, and Wing Chun is gay, but I say the more weapons at your disposal the better. Keeping someone at trapping range is difficult unles you either have really good footwork, or you just hold on to them. There's advantages and disadvantages to either strategy, and no attack can ever be made without leaving yourself open, but like any other technique it works with enough practice. For the record, Wing Chun and BJJ are secondary arts I've only added in to my training in the last 5 years or so, so I'm by no means an expert.
 
411 BTW Wing Chun isn't very well know in mainland China but rather Hong Kong
 
Yeah, that is why it pwns all the top grapplers at the ADCC



Excuse me sir could you please back up FOOM FOOM FOOM

FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM FOOM


I don't know however from a law enforcement background the verbal directives are a way to cover your ass for the most part legally at least with my use of force directives though yeah in a parking lot there most likely won't be cameras with audio but who knows......
 
Isn't the problem with Wing Chun....the fact that all that trapping and lop sau chi sau stuff all depends on the opponent punching, but leaving his arm sticking out? I mean...usually a guy punching you will not leave his arm sticking out for you to trap or parry or block.
 
There are loads of limbs being broken on video because breaking limbs is sanctioned by athletic commissions, and is also on TV.

Eyepokes are only used in self defense situations, and those are not usually on video. (Muggers don't usually like to be videotaped) . Add to the fact that WC is primarily in china, it becomes almost impossible to find a real mugging that someone who used eyepokes and also used WC, as there are many martial arts that use eyepokes. But there are tons of unintentional eyepokes on video, so that you can see the effects. Kos vs johnson

If I studied the art I would have a parner wear goggles and let me poke him in the eyes. Problem solved

Anyway I'm sure you have seen a women's self defense class where they bring a guy dressed in armor and let them kick him in the balls. there is your nut shot training. easily done.

[YT]JlZZsRCbQYs[/YT]

Here's how to develop your power without actually killing someone.

[YT]0xxHGCSjejE[/YT]

Suffice it to say that if he didn't pull his strikes just before impact his opponent would be on the floor gasping for breath or dead. And if you don't beleive me have somone take their index and middle finger and jam it in that hole in your neck, you'll notice that you can't breathe. Plenty of time to eather continue hitting him or to run away.



You don't have to jab throats to be proficient at jabbing throats for the same reason that you don't have to break arms to be proficient at breaking arms.

dummy dont hit back

my boxing instructor knows the "dim mak" but he told me he wouldnt teach me it because he's showing me the sport of "boxing".... not the sport of "in real life"
 
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