Why would you be against conservatism???

Seems from definitions that conservatism is about small government and being rewarded or punished based on your values and choices that you make individually. Oh, and also traditional values.

While liberalism seems to be about worshiping the government and having the government be large and powerful and very much in your life.


I have been looking to see exactly what each side believes, and now that I have researched I honestly do not understand how anyone who is not a lazy sack of worthless shit would pick anything besides conservatism.

If you disagree with below, feel free to point out what is wrong.
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Conservative vs. Liberal Beliefs - Student News Daily
https://www.studentnewsdaily.com/conservative-vs-liberal-beliefs/
Liberal policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve problems. Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense

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C- Families know best how to raise their children. They need to be strengthened and have the right to raise their children the way they want.
L- It takes a “village” not a family to raise a child. Families need government help and oversight. Cradle to grave involvement is optimal.

C-Society is composed of individuals to be judged on their individual merit. Values individualism, self-reliance, and independence.
L-Sees society as composed of groups: black vs. white, old vs. young, rich vs. poor, male vs. female. These groups are pitted against each other. Stirs up racial and class envy and division.

C-Individuals are responsible for themselves and their actions. Crime should be punished. Evil exists and good should fight against it.
L-Society is responsible for individuals. Man is inherently good and something causes him to do wrong.
They talk about how we need to change society when someone does wrong. Even terrorists need to be understood.


C-Limit to how much can be taken from people to give to others. Welfare should help people to become independent (not dependent) and given to those truly incapable of taking care of themselves.
L- Supports welfare state. Government is morally justified taking from those that have and giving it to others because people are entitled to basic needs including housing, food, healthcare, income, etc. even if they are able to work.

C- Promotes equal justice.
L- Promotes social justice.

C-Competition is good.
L- Competition is unfair.

C-Supports lower taxes for all because people have a right to what they earn.
L-Supports progressive taxation with high taxes for the rich in an attempt to equalize incomes through redistribution of earnings.

C-Less government is better. Wants only necessary regulation of business, economy, and individual lives, resulting in more freedom.
L-More government is better. Many regulations are necessary to achieve a more fair & just society which is government’s primary role, resulting in less freedom.

C-Limited federal government with more power given to state and local governments.
L-Powerful centralized federal government with limited state and local control.

C-People and property rights are more important than environment. Supports conservation and development and use of our natural resources along with the development of green technology by private enterprise and when it is economically feasible and self-sustaining. Opposes cap and trade due to its high cost and negative impact on our businesses and way of life.
L-Environment more important than people and property rights. Supports rationing and limiting access to natural resources. Focuses on green technology subsidized by the government. Supports cap and trade to redistribute and control energy usage.

C-Wealth is good. All have an opportunity to be wealthy (The American dream). Creates a better life for all through entrepreneurship.
L-Wealth is bad and unfair. Promotes class warfare.

C-Equal opportunity without discrimination. Recognizes people make different choices with what they have and that it isn't government's role to make things fair. Doesn’t seek equal outcomes.
L-Equal results through such things as quotas, free college, and equal pay for unequal work. Government has to level the playing field in order to have equal opportunity. Seeks equal outcomes.

C- Supports healthcare reform that gives consumers choices.
L - Supports government takecover of healthcare and limiting of consumers' choices.

C-Judicial restraint with strict interpretation of laws according to the Constitution and original intent.
L-Judicial activism: enacting social policy changes via court rulings. Constitution is seen as outdated and in need of change.

C-Free market economy.
L-Government regulation of economy.

C -Free market creates jobs.
L -Government creates jobs.

C-Business is good: creates jobs & improves lives. Let free market supply and demand adjust practices and employers and employees determine wages/benefits.
L-Business is evil: out to exploit employees, environment, and consumers. Needs to be regulated to protect consumers, employees, and the environment. Government regulates employee benefits.

C-Traditional morality including traditional family and values. Absolute standards of right and wrong. Absolute truth. Sees standing against wrong as a moral duty.
L-Tolerance of all lifestyles & beliefs except those that hold views they consider to be intolerant. No absolute standards of right and wrong. Moral relativism.

C-Right to free speech must be supported even if it offends.
L-Right to free speech is limited to speech that does not offend. (Political correctness)

C-Peace through strength via a strong military.
L - Peace through appeasement, cooperation, and understanding others' views. Dislikes showing and exercising strength.

C-Supports a missile defense system.
L-Opposes a missile defense system.

C-American sovereignty comes before globalism.
L-Globalism comes before American sovereignty.

C-Sees America as good: the best hope for the world. Believes in American exceptionalism.
L-Sees America as flawed: racist, homophobic, imperialistic, sexist, ageist and no better than other countries.

C-Western cultures are superior to others without rights, freedom, and respect for life.
L-All cultures are equal. Can’t pass judgment on any even if they don’t value freedom, rights, and life.

C-God is a necessary part of a moral society. Religion makes people good when they know they have to answer to God.
L-State is secular (without God and hostile to Christianity). Seeks to eliminate references of God through separation of church and state.

C-Rights emphasized: Freedom, Parental, Property, Religious, Guns, Life.
L-Rights emphasized: Civil, Privacy, Secularism, Reproductive.


Liberalism (progressivism) wants to pull us further towards a welfare state with an ever-expanding web of social entitlements and more federal power and control over every aspect of our lives. Liberalism sees a nation of people incapable of solving their problems without the government’s help.

Conservatism believes a powerful federal government limits personal freedom. It seeks to stop the growing entitlement programs, encourage individual responsibility, and return Constitutionally mandated power to the states. Conservatism sees a nation of people capable of solving their own problems with minimal government help, as long as the people are free.
http://www.conservatismvsliberalism.net/


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10) Conservatives believe that individual Americans have a right to defend themselves and their families with guns and that right cannot be taken away by any method short of a Constitutional Amendment, which conservatives would oppose. Liberals believe by taking arms away from law abiding citizens, they can prevent criminals, who aren't going to abide by gun control laws, from using guns in the commission of crimes.

9) Conservatives believe that we should live in a color blind society where every individual is judged on the content of his character and the merits of his actions. On the other hand, liberals believe that it's ok to discriminate based on race as long as it primarily benefits minority groups.

8) Conservatives are capitalists and believe that entrepreneurs who amass great wealth through their own efforts are good for the country and shouldn't be punished for being successful. Liberals are socialists who view successful business owners as people who cheated the system somehow or got lucky. That's why they don't respect high achievers and see them as little more than piggy banks for their programs.

7) Conservatives believe that abortion ends the life of an innocent child and since we believe that infanticide is wrong, we oppose abortion. Most liberals, despite what they'll tell you, believe that abortion ends the life of an innocent child, but they prefer killing the baby to inconveniencing the mother.

6) Conservatives believe in confronting and defeating enemies of the United States before they can harm American citizens. Liberals believe in using law enforcement measures to deal with terrorism, which means that they feel we should allow terrorists to train, plan, and actually attempt to kill Americans before we try to arrest them -- as if you can just send the police around to pick up a terrorist mastermind hiding in Iran or the wilds of Pakistan.

5) Conservatives, but not necessarily Republicans (which is unfortunate), believe it's vitally important to the future of the country to reduce the size of government, keep taxes low, balance the budget, and get this country out of debt. Liberals, and Democrats for that matter, believe in big government, high taxes, and they have never met a new spending program they didn't like, whether we will have to go into debt to pay for it or not.


4) Conservatives believe that government, by its very nature, tends to be inefficient, incompetent, wasteful, and power hungry. That's why we believe that the government that governs least, governs best. Liberals think that the solution to every problem is another government program. Even when those new programs create new problems, often worse than the ones that were being fixed in the first place, the solution is always....you guessed it, another government program.

3) Conservatives are patriotic, believe that America is a great nation, and are primarily interested in looking out for the good of the country. That's why we believe in "American exceptionalism" and "America first." Liberals are internationalists who are more concerned about what Europeans think of us and staying in the good graces of the corrupt bureaucrats who control the UN than looking out for the best interests of this nation.

2) Conservatives, most of them anyway, believe in God and think that the Constitution has been twisted by liberal judges to illegitimately try to purge Christianity from the public square. We also believe, most of us anyway, that this country has been successful in large part because it is a good, Christian nation and if our country ever turns away from the Lord, it will cease to prosper. Liberals, most of them anyway, are hostile to Christianity. That's why, whether you're talking about a school play at Christmas time, a judge putting the Ten Commandments on the wall of his court, or a store employee saying "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays," liberals are dedicated to driving reminders of Christianity from polite society.


1) Conservatives believe in pursuing policies because they're pragmatic and because they work. Liberals believe in pursuing policies because they're "nice" and make them feel good. Whether the policies they're advocating actually work or not is of secondary importance to them.
http://townhall.com/columnists/john...ifferences_between_conservatives_and_liberals
Because there aren't any. The Republican party has been taken over. Their priorities now revolve around gay marriage, abortion, war and religion. Actual conservatives like Ron Paul are shunned.
 
First off only the first little part was something I wrote, the rest were definitions and basic difference from different websites. It sees like you do not disagree with these. That being said, not sure how people can be against conservatism when it wants a small gov, the gov out of your life, and to be rewarded based on your actions.

Well, unless you are a worthless lazy piece of shit that cannot handle this and needs big gov to make all your decisions for you.

Yeah, I realize that you're a cut and paste bot without any real thoughts of your own.

Terrible thread. Enjoy your retard medal.
 
Limited government this, limited government that.

Yet in all the discussions about police brutality (aka, the government flagrantly violating, harming and outright killing citizens) conservatives are nowhere to be found.

Ok, I see pan in there sometimes. Maybe one other dude. The rest are a bunch of government hating geniuses loudly cheering the government's coercive arm beating the shit out of people.
 
I would say I'm conservative in the sense that I want our institutions and system to remain relatively the same and am hesitant to big changes. For this reason, it doesn't mean small government to me but more the norm that is historically sustainable. The problem is I think we haven't been using a stable system for the last 30 years now and there needs to be some self correction. Revenues and spending need to return back to historic norms now that we have come out of a recession. We should be able to balance the budget either through increased tax revenue or cuts to spending.
 
I'm for conservatism. I'm against people who pick and choose in it's application.

Limited government would mean not telling people who they can marry or preventing women from aborting pregnancies up to the 9th month...if they wanted to. .

ANARCHY !

to libertarian for my tastes. I could say a lot as to why im personally conservative but I can sum it up with one quote -" Behavior is not determined by race, by gender or socioeconomic status-it is most determined by a persons value system"

And I do resent morality by federal government fiat as well
I feel like the founders wanted most to avoid a large powerful federal government partly for this reason. People are going to disagree with what is moral surprise surprise. I think gay marriage is insane. That being said the Christian faith was not made by my Lord to be compulsory or by force. The founders in there genius added this little part Called THE 10TH AMENDMENT. A state gathers in people of like mind and they make agreeable laws and they live in there state and I live in mine.It seems like one party likes to overstep this part of the bill of rights more than others. I know,the GOP of the last 20 years isn't shrinking crap. Politicians in general don't have stones to cut Anything. Why not it's not their money. SSI is cool. If we didn't have welfare I'd be cool with legal everything- dope, prostitution. But we shouldn't have it both ways
 
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Revenues and spending need to return back to historic norms now that we have come out of a recession. We should be able to balance the budget either through increased tax revenue or cuts to spending.

We're pretty close:

fredgraph.png


fredgraph.png


Revenue has recovered to normal levels, while spending is where it was for most of the 1980s, and above where it was in the '90s (and that's understandable as part of the '90s saw a legit debt problem and part of it saw a booming economy that naturally put less stress on a lot of spending categories). When you consider demographic changes (older population), I don't think it's realistic or desirable to see us go to 1950-1980 levels of spending.
 
We're pretty close:

fredgraph.png


fredgraph.png


Revenue has recovered to normal levels, while spending is where it was for most of the 1980s, and above where it was in the '90s (and that's understandable as part of the '90s saw a legit debt problem and part of it saw a booming economy that naturally put less stress on a lot of spending categories). When you consider demographic changes (older population), I don't think it's realistic or desirable to see us go to 1950-1980 levels of spending.

Problem is 80's spending is high. If you want to address the older population and acknowledge those programs will expand in the next decade, I would do specific things to address it. I've always been for eliminating the ceiling on Social Security. It doesn't close the gap completely but I think it's a bare minimum start to the problem.
 
I'll never be a conservative but the ideology has a few decent things to say. Don't go hogwild on spending. Don't make changes too fast. Don't give the government too much power.

Modern American conservatism, as practiced by the Republican party, is irredeemable garbage designed for the sole purpose of stacking the deck for the weatlhy.

I wouldn't necessarily say they stack the deck for the wealthy. The public does a good job of that themselves by supporting massive chain stores and restaurants rather than local businesses. I personally just don't feel I'm owed a portion of their money just because they have it to give and I exist. That's often called "voting against my interest", but in reality my interest is being responsible for my own success or failure and I don't concern myself with how much anybody else has.

I'm for conservatism. I'm against people who pick and choose in it's application.

Limited government would mean not telling people who they can marry or preventing women from aborting pregnancies up to the 9th month...if they wanted to. Rewarding hard work and so forth would mean not creating protectionist strategies for failing industries. Defending the Constitution would include not targeting Islam the religion for the malfeasance of some of its worshippers. It means accepting that the public can silence speech even when the government can't.

Generally, I support conservatism when it's practiced consistently. I don't support hypocrisy that dresses itself in the robes of conservatism when it's convenient.

Limited gov't isn't the same as no government. It's hard to call a 9th month abortion anything other than murder, considering the kid is fully formed and perfectly viable, and the only difference in considering it murder is whether you kill it inside the womb or outside. I wouldn't mind the gov't getting out of marriage entirely, especially now since whatever "tax benefits" that existed to incentivize people who make children to stay together is mostly gone, since both often work and now they get taxed on combined income.

The biggest problem with what is supposed to be the "conservative" party is that it's been hijacked by religious people. That isn't a problem most of the time, but it does affect policy every now and then and pandering to any group makes for dishonest candidates.
 
How could it be hard to understand why people would be fine with having things run by the government? By putting much in the hands of the government is exactly how the Scandinavian people managed to get a lot of personal freedom away from churches and family. The view was that you'll never be free of all those three in a shared society, so you need to embrace one to loosen the grip of the others. It's fine if that's not something you want, unlike the TS I don't think it's hard to see the drawbacks of any political view (they all have them), but even on that very superficial description about personal freedom it should be easy to see why some people want to be less conservative.

As for traditional values, I think that everything should always be subject to new evaluation. If something isn't working anymore, throw it out and replace it with something that does. Just like we did with abolishing slavery, allowing women to vote, etc. Those were traditional values that were seen obsolete, so I just don't see the inherent value in that something has existed before. It's about what the value is, not when it was created. So closer to the scientific method than religious belief in how you treat your values.
 
Problem is 80's spending is high. If you want to address the older population and acknowledge those programs will expand in the next decade, I would do specific things to address it. I've always been for eliminating the ceiling on Social Security. It doesn't close the gap completely but I think it's a bare minimum start to the problem.

Just saying that revenue has climbed back up to normal after being extraordinarily low for a while, and the spending spike is also over.

You're off on that last part. Eliminating the payroll cap would way more than close the gap completely. Funding issues for SS are *greatly* overstated by the media. But that's beside the point--I'm just saying that maintaining the same level of services in the face of an aging population means a higher baseline for spending.
 
Has everyone forgotten about the 3 wars we're still involved in that is syphoning trillions of dollars out this country?

People keep talking about making national cuts to spending, but seem to be blind about where the real spending amounts are going.
 
This hysterical myth that conservatives reduce the size of government is one of Americas greatest myths.

Decades worth of saying utter bullshit that is completely false


I know, its like saying Liberals reduce the amount of poor people in this country.
 
Conservationism and Liberalism are philosophies who's cores have little to do with the size of government.

Government is a tool which is used by both. The amount of government control that conservatives or liberals want to impose depends on what issue we are talking about
 
Because Conservatism has outdated values that oppresses.

They also are heavily into Religion and Pro-Life. More outdated traditions that divide the people.

As another poster said, Conservatism opposes change. We are in a world that is changing at a fast pace, we do not need outdated traditional values stopping that.

Secondarily. Majority of historic US events that progressed the country, have been democratic decisions. Democratic and Liberal decisions have built the U.S not Conservatism.
 
ANARCHY !

to libertarian for my tastes. I could say a lot as to why im personally conservative but I can sum it up with one quote -" Behavior is not determined by race, by gender or socioeconomic status-it is most determined by a persons value system"

And I do resent morality by federal government fiat as well
I feel like the founders wanted most to avoid a large powerful federal government partly for this reason. People are going to disagree with what is moral surprise surprise. I think gay marriage is insane. That being said the Christian faith was not made by my Lord to be compulsory or by force. The founders in there genius added this little part Called THE 10TH AMENDMENT. A state gathers in people of like mind and they make agreeable laws and they live in there state and I live in mine.It seems like one party likes to overstep this part of the bill of rights more than others. I know,the GOP of the last 20 years isn't shrinking crap. Politicians in general don't have stones to cut Anything. Why not it's not their money. SSI is cool. If we didn't have welfare I'd be cool with legal everything- dope, prostitution. But we shouldn't have it both ways

Dude.

Behavior is based off sourrounding factors. You can't base someones behaviour off a persons value system.

That's like blaming a young poor black kid in Compton because he doesn't have personal value. When in reality the place they come from has zero value.


So if the young black kid from Compton has no personal value, never been taught, never shown because he is in a neighborhood that is comparable to a Third-World neighborhood is he still to blame for the lack of personal value system that he was never taught?

Personal value is taught just like everything else in the human mind.
If the human mind cannot have those teachings because he/she is in a place where those ideas are not taught. How can you be blamed for not posessing those teachings?
 
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