Why would you be against conservatism???

This hysterical myth that conservatives reduce the size of government is one of Americas greatest myths.

Decades worth of saying utter bullshit that is completely false

Yeah, I'm not quite sure why that belief still exists. Most of the more recent increases in government power came directly as a result of the Bush government's reaction to 9/11. Obama's government continued the trend, but they weren't the ones that set up things like mass surveillance on civilians, the TSA and the militarization of police forces.
 
Seems from definitions that conservatism is about small government and being rewarded or punished based on your values and choices that you make individually. Oh, and also traditional values.

While liberalism seems to be about worshiping the government and having the government be large and powerful and very much in your life.

Are you interested in an honest discussion? If so realize that liberalism is not about worship of government, or a want for it to be large. The general idea is that government should serve as a safety net and help people get ahead. A helping hand up, instead of simply being on ones own.
 
Yeah, I'm not quite sure why that belief still exists. Most of the more recent increases in government power came directly as a result of the Bush government's reaction to 9/11. Obama's government continued the trend, but they weren't the ones that set up things like mass surveillance on civilians, the TSA and the militarization of police forces.

hi Jimbob27,

...or medicare part D.

- IGIT
 
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This hysterical myth that conservatives reduce the size of government is one of Americas greatest myths.

Decades worth of saying utter bullshit that is completely false

It's spouted so much recently because a bunch of libertardians jumped onto the Trump Train, and reconciling diametrically opposed views hurts thier heads.

Amazingly, in the alt right bullshit of Trump and Co they managed to find an even more juvenile political home than even libertarianism could offer.
 
Are you interested in an honest discussion?
Of course not.

As for why would someone be against conservatism, one reason is because of obnoxious people like OP who give conservatives a bad name.
 
The professional victims would be out of a job thats why
 
Seems from definitions that conservatism is about small government and being rewarded or punished based on your values and choices that you make individually. Oh, and also traditional values.

While liberalism seems to be about worshiping the government and having the government be large and powerful and very much in your life.


I have been looking to see exactly what each side believes, and now that I have researched I honestly do not understand how anyone who is not a lazy sack of worthless shit would pick anything besides conservatism.

If you disagree with below, feel free to point out what is wrong.
------------------------

Conservative vs. Liberal Beliefs - Student News Daily
https://www.studentnewsdaily.com/conservative-vs-liberal-beliefs/
Liberal policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve problems. Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense

------------


C- Families know best how to raise their children. They need to be strengthened and have the right to raise their children the way they want.
L- It takes a “village” not a family to raise a child. Families need government help and oversight. Cradle to grave involvement is optimal.

C-Society is composed of individuals to be judged on their individual merit. Values individualism, self-reliance, and independence.
L-Sees society as composed of groups: black vs. white, old vs. young, rich vs. poor, male vs. female. These groups are pitted against each other. Stirs up racial and class envy and division.

C-Individuals are responsible for themselves and their actions. Crime should be punished. Evil exists and good should fight against it.
L-Society is responsible for individuals. Man is inherently good and something causes him to do wrong.
They talk about how we need to change society when someone does wrong. Even terrorists need to be understood.


C-Limit to how much can be taken from people to give to others. Welfare should help people to become independent (not dependent) and given to those truly incapable of taking care of themselves.
L- Supports welfare state. Government is morally justified taking from those that have and giving it to others because people are entitled to basic needs including housing, food, healthcare, income, etc. even if they are able to work.

C- Promotes equal justice.
L- Promotes social justice.

C-Competition is good.
L- Competition is unfair.

C-Supports lower taxes for all because people have a right to what they earn.
L-Supports progressive taxation with high taxes for the rich in an attempt to equalize incomes through redistribution of earnings.

C-Less government is better. Wants only necessary regulation of business, economy, and individual lives, resulting in more freedom.
L-More government is better. Many regulations are necessary to achieve a more fair & just society which is government’s primary role, resulting in less freedom.

C-Limited federal government with more power given to state and local governments.
L-Powerful centralized federal government with limited state and local control.

C-People and property rights are more important than environment. Supports conservation and development and use of our natural resources along with the development of green technology by private enterprise and when it is economically feasible and self-sustaining. Opposes cap and trade due to its high cost and negative impact on our businesses and way of life.
L-Environment more important than people and property rights. Supports rationing and limiting access to natural resources. Focuses on green technology subsidized by the government. Supports cap and trade to redistribute and control energy usage.

C-Wealth is good. All have an opportunity to be wealthy (The American dream). Creates a better life for all through entrepreneurship.
L-Wealth is bad and unfair. Promotes class warfare.

C-Equal opportunity without discrimination. Recognizes people make different choices with what they have and that it isn't government's role to make things fair. Doesn’t seek equal outcomes.
L-Equal results through such things as quotas, free college, and equal pay for unequal work. Government has to level the playing field in order to have equal opportunity. Seeks equal outcomes.

C- Supports healthcare reform that gives consumers choices.
L - Supports government takecover of healthcare and limiting of consumers' choices.

C-Judicial restraint with strict interpretation of laws according to the Constitution and original intent.
L-Judicial activism: enacting social policy changes via court rulings. Constitution is seen as outdated and in need of change.

C-Free market economy.
L-Government regulation of economy.

C -Free market creates jobs.
L -Government creates jobs.

C-Business is good: creates jobs & improves lives. Let free market supply and demand adjust practices and employers and employees determine wages/benefits.
L-Business is evil: out to exploit employees, environment, and consumers. Needs to be regulated to protect consumers, employees, and the environment. Government regulates employee benefits.

C-Traditional morality including traditional family and values. Absolute standards of right and wrong. Absolute truth. Sees standing against wrong as a moral duty.
L-Tolerance of all lifestyles & beliefs except those that hold views they consider to be intolerant. No absolute standards of right and wrong. Moral relativism.

C-Right to free speech must be supported even if it offends.
L-Right to free speech is limited to speech that does not offend. (Political correctness)

C-Peace through strength via a strong military.
L - Peace through appeasement, cooperation, and understanding others' views. Dislikes showing and exercising strength.

C-Supports a missile defense system.
L-Opposes a missile defense system.

C-American sovereignty comes before globalism.
L-Globalism comes before American sovereignty.

C-Sees America as good: the best hope for the world. Believes in American exceptionalism.
L-Sees America as flawed: racist, homophobic, imperialistic, sexist, ageist and no better than other countries.

C-Western cultures are superior to others without rights, freedom, and respect for life.
L-All cultures are equal. Can’t pass judgment on any even if they don’t value freedom, rights, and life.

C-God is a necessary part of a moral society. Religion makes people good when they know they have to answer to God.
L-State is secular (without God and hostile to Christianity). Seeks to eliminate references of God through separation of church and state.

C-Rights emphasized: Freedom, Parental, Property, Religious, Guns, Life.
L-Rights emphasized: Civil, Privacy, Secularism, Reproductive.


Liberalism (progressivism) wants to pull us further towards a welfare state with an ever-expanding web of social entitlements and more federal power and control over every aspect of our lives. Liberalism sees a nation of people incapable of solving their problems without the government’s help.

Conservatism believes a powerful federal government limits personal freedom. It seeks to stop the growing entitlement programs, encourage individual responsibility, and return Constitutionally mandated power to the states. Conservatism sees a nation of people capable of solving their own problems with minimal government help, as long as the people are free.
http://www.conservatismvsliberalism.net/


----------------

10) Conservatives believe that individual Americans have a right to defend themselves and their families with guns and that right cannot be taken away by any method short of a Constitutional Amendment, which conservatives would oppose. Liberals believe by taking arms away from law abiding citizens, they can prevent criminals, who aren't going to abide by gun control laws, from using guns in the commission of crimes.

9) Conservatives believe that we should live in a color blind society where every individual is judged on the content of his character and the merits of his actions. On the other hand, liberals believe that it's ok to discriminate based on race as long as it primarily benefits minority groups.

8) Conservatives are capitalists and believe that entrepreneurs who amass great wealth through their own efforts are good for the country and shouldn't be punished for being successful. Liberals are socialists who view successful business owners as people who cheated the system somehow or got lucky. That's why they don't respect high achievers and see them as little more than piggy banks for their programs.

7) Conservatives believe that abortion ends the life of an innocent child and since we believe that infanticide is wrong, we oppose abortion. Most liberals, despite what they'll tell you, believe that abortion ends the life of an innocent child, but they prefer killing the baby to inconveniencing the mother.

6) Conservatives believe in confronting and defeating enemies of the United States before they can harm American citizens. Liberals believe in using law enforcement measures to deal with terrorism, which means that they feel we should allow terrorists to train, plan, and actually attempt to kill Americans before we try to arrest them -- as if you can just send the police around to pick up a terrorist mastermind hiding in Iran or the wilds of Pakistan.

5) Conservatives, but not necessarily Republicans (which is unfortunate), believe it's vitally important to the future of the country to reduce the size of government, keep taxes low, balance the budget, and get this country out of debt. Liberals, and Democrats for that matter, believe in big government, high taxes, and they have never met a new spending program they didn't like, whether we will have to go into debt to pay for it or not.


4) Conservatives believe that government, by its very nature, tends to be inefficient, incompetent, wasteful, and power hungry. That's why we believe that the government that governs least, governs best. Liberals think that the solution to every problem is another government program. Even when those new programs create new problems, often worse than the ones that were being fixed in the first place, the solution is always....you guessed it, another government program.

3) Conservatives are patriotic, believe that America is a great nation, and are primarily interested in looking out for the good of the country. That's why we believe in "American exceptionalism" and "America first." Liberals are internationalists who are more concerned about what Europeans think of us and staying in the good graces of the corrupt bureaucrats who control the UN than looking out for the best interests of this nation.

2) Conservatives, most of them anyway, believe in God and think that the Constitution has been twisted by liberal judges to illegitimately try to purge Christianity from the public square. We also believe, most of us anyway, that this country has been successful in large part because it is a good, Christian nation and if our country ever turns away from the Lord, it will cease to prosper. Liberals, most of them anyway, are hostile to Christianity. That's why, whether you're talking about a school play at Christmas time, a judge putting the Ten Commandments on the wall of his court, or a store employee saying "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays," liberals are dedicated to driving reminders of Christianity from polite society.


1) Conservatives believe in pursuing policies because they're pragmatic and because they work. Liberals believe in pursuing policies because they're "nice" and make them feel good. Whether the policies they're advocating actually work or not is of secondary importance to them.
http://townhall.com/columnists/john...ifferences_between_conservatives_and_liberals
If conservatives actually did what they claim they are about they wouldn't be so bad.

The thing that the original post didn't address that is the deal breaker for me is all the bible thumping bullshit and denying/ignoring science.
 
Seems from definitions that conservatism is about small government and being rewarded or punished based on your values and choices that you make individually. Oh, and also traditional values.

While liberalism seems to be about worshiping the government and having the government be large and powerful and very much in your life.


I have been looking to see exactly what each side believes, and now that I have researched I honestly do not understand how anyone who is not a lazy sack of worthless shit would pick anything besides conservatism.

If you disagree with below, feel free to point out what is wrong.
------------------------

Conservative vs. Liberal Beliefs - Student News Daily
https://www.studentnewsdaily.com/conservative-vs-liberal-beliefs/
Liberal policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve problems. Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense

------------


C- Families know best how to raise their children. They need to be strengthened and have the right to raise their children the way they want.
L- It takes a “village” not a family to raise a child. Families need government help and oversight. Cradle to grave involvement is optimal.

C-Society is composed of individuals to be judged on their individual merit. Values individualism, self-reliance, and independence.
L-Sees society as composed of groups: black vs. white, old vs. young, rich vs. poor, male vs. female. These groups are pitted against each other. Stirs up racial and class envy and division.

C-Individuals are responsible for themselves and their actions. Crime should be punished. Evil exists and good should fight against it.
L-Society is responsible for individuals. Man is inherently good and something causes him to do wrong.
They talk about how we need to change society when someone does wrong. Even terrorists need to be understood.


C-Limit to how much can be taken from people to give to others. Welfare should help people to become independent (not dependent) and given to those truly incapable of taking care of themselves.
L- Supports welfare state. Government is morally justified taking from those that have and giving it to others because people are entitled to basic needs including housing, food, healthcare, income, etc. even if they are able to work.

C- Promotes equal justice.
L- Promotes social justice.

C-Competition is good.
L- Competition is unfair.

C-Supports lower taxes for all because people have a right to what they earn.
L-Supports progressive taxation with high taxes for the rich in an attempt to equalize incomes through redistribution of earnings.

C-Less government is better. Wants only necessary regulation of business, economy, and individual lives, resulting in more freedom.
L-More government is better. Many regulations are necessary to achieve a more fair & just society which is government’s primary role, resulting in less freedom.

C-Limited federal government with more power given to state and local governments.
L-Powerful centralized federal government with limited state and local control.

C-People and property rights are more important than environment. Supports conservation and development and use of our natural resources along with the development of green technology by private enterprise and when it is economically feasible and self-sustaining. Opposes cap and trade due to its high cost and negative impact on our businesses and way of life.
L-Environment more important than people and property rights. Supports rationing and limiting access to natural resources. Focuses on green technology subsidized by the government. Supports cap and trade to redistribute and control energy usage.

C-Wealth is good. All have an opportunity to be wealthy (The American dream). Creates a better life for all through entrepreneurship.
L-Wealth is bad and unfair. Promotes class warfare.

C-Equal opportunity without discrimination. Recognizes people make different choices with what they have and that it isn't government's role to make things fair. Doesn’t seek equal outcomes.
L-Equal results through such things as quotas, free college, and equal pay for unequal work. Government has to level the playing field in order to have equal opportunity. Seeks equal outcomes.

C- Supports healthcare reform that gives consumers choices.
L - Supports government takecover of healthcare and limiting of consumers' choices.

C-Judicial restraint with strict interpretation of laws according to the Constitution and original intent.
L-Judicial activism: enacting social policy changes via court rulings. Constitution is seen as outdated and in need of change.

C-Free market economy.
L-Government regulation of economy.

C -Free market creates jobs.
L -Government creates jobs.

C-Business is good: creates jobs & improves lives. Let free market supply and demand adjust practices and employers and employees determine wages/benefits.
L-Business is evil: out to exploit employees, environment, and consumers. Needs to be regulated to protect consumers, employees, and the environment. Government regulates employee benefits.

C-Traditional morality including traditional family and values. Absolute standards of right and wrong. Absolute truth. Sees standing against wrong as a moral duty.
L-Tolerance of all lifestyles & beliefs except those that hold views they consider to be intolerant. No absolute standards of right and wrong. Moral relativism.

C-Right to free speech must be supported even if it offends.
L-Right to free speech is limited to speech that does not offend. (Political correctness)

C-Peace through strength via a strong military.
L - Peace through appeasement, cooperation, and understanding others' views. Dislikes showing and exercising strength.

C-Supports a missile defense system.
L-Opposes a missile defense system.

C-American sovereignty comes before globalism.
L-Globalism comes before American sovereignty.

C-Sees America as good: the best hope for the world. Believes in American exceptionalism.
L-Sees America as flawed: racist, homophobic, imperialistic, sexist, ageist and no better than other countries.

C-Western cultures are superior to others without rights, freedom, and respect for life.
L-All cultures are equal. Can’t pass judgment on any even if they don’t value freedom, rights, and life.

C-God is a necessary part of a moral society. Religion makes people good when they know they have to answer to God.
L-State is secular (without God and hostile to Christianity). Seeks to eliminate references of God through separation of church and state.

C-Rights emphasized: Freedom, Parental, Property, Religious, Guns, Life.
L-Rights emphasized: Civil, Privacy, Secularism, Reproductive.


Liberalism (progressivism) wants to pull us further towards a welfare state with an ever-expanding web of social entitlements and more federal power and control over every aspect of our lives. Liberalism sees a nation of people incapable of solving their problems without the government’s help.

Conservatism believes a powerful federal government limits personal freedom. It seeks to stop the growing entitlement programs, encourage individual responsibility, and return Constitutionally mandated power to the states. Conservatism sees a nation of people capable of solving their own problems with minimal government help, as long as the people are free.
http://www.conservatismvsliberalism.net/


----------------

10) Conservatives believe that individual Americans have a right to defend themselves and their families with guns and that right cannot be taken away by any method short of a Constitutional Amendment, which conservatives would oppose. Liberals believe by taking arms away from law abiding citizens, they can prevent criminals, who aren't going to abide by gun control laws, from using guns in the commission of crimes.

9) Conservatives believe that we should live in a color blind society where every individual is judged on the content of his character and the merits of his actions. On the other hand, liberals believe that it's ok to discriminate based on race as long as it primarily benefits minority groups.

8) Conservatives are capitalists and believe that entrepreneurs who amass great wealth through their own efforts are good for the country and shouldn't be punished for being successful. Liberals are socialists who view successful business owners as people who cheated the system somehow or got lucky. That's why they don't respect high achievers and see them as little more than piggy banks for their programs.

7) Conservatives believe that abortion ends the life of an innocent child and since we believe that infanticide is wrong, we oppose abortion. Most liberals, despite what they'll tell you, believe that abortion ends the life of an innocent child, but they prefer killing the baby to inconveniencing the mother.

6) Conservatives believe in confronting and defeating enemies of the United States before they can harm American citizens. Liberals believe in using law enforcement measures to deal with terrorism, which means that they feel we should allow terrorists to train, plan, and actually attempt to kill Americans before we try to arrest them -- as if you can just send the police around to pick up a terrorist mastermind hiding in Iran or the wilds of Pakistan.

5) Conservatives, but not necessarily Republicans (which is unfortunate), believe it's vitally important to the future of the country to reduce the size of government, keep taxes low, balance the budget, and get this country out of debt. Liberals, and Democrats for that matter, believe in big government, high taxes, and they have never met a new spending program they didn't like, whether we will have to go into debt to pay for it or not.


4) Conservatives believe that government, by its very nature, tends to be inefficient, incompetent, wasteful, and power hungry. That's why we believe that the government that governs least, governs best. Liberals think that the solution to every problem is another government program. Even when those new programs create new problems, often worse than the ones that were being fixed in the first place, the solution is always....you guessed it, another government program.

3) Conservatives are patriotic, believe that America is a great nation, and are primarily interested in looking out for the good of the country. That's why we believe in "American exceptionalism" and "America first." Liberals are internationalists who are more concerned about what Europeans think of us and staying in the good graces of the corrupt bureaucrats who control the UN than looking out for the best interests of this nation.

2) Conservatives, most of them anyway, believe in God and think that the Constitution has been twisted by liberal judges to illegitimately try to purge Christianity from the public square. We also believe, most of us anyway, that this country has been successful in large part because it is a good, Christian nation and if our country ever turns away from the Lord, it will cease to prosper. Liberals, most of them anyway, are hostile to Christianity. That's why, whether you're talking about a school play at Christmas time, a judge putting the Ten Commandments on the wall of his court, or a store employee saying "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays," liberals are dedicated to driving reminders of Christianity from polite society.


1) Conservatives believe in pursuing policies because they're pragmatic and because they work. Liberals believe in pursuing policies because they're "nice" and make them feel good. Whether the policies they're advocating actually work or not is of secondary importance to them.
http://townhall.com/columnists/john...ifferences_between_conservatives_and_liberals
After reading all that..

The answer lies directly in the middle,too much of one over the other is why are country is a monumental cluster fuck right now..

Anyone who subscribes to only one side of this table is ignorant,uninformed and the problem
 
@Pixelated Porn

Honestly man, you're just a mouthpice for the right at this point. You keep making aggressive threads/posts which all boil down to 'left bad/right good'. Here's your decision making process as far as I can tell:

1) Presented with new idea
2) Decide whether idea is left or right
3) if left = cuck, if right = sound concept

You're exactly where they want you. Don't question anything beyond simple black and white policy divisions. Must be nice to live in a world where everything is that simple, where you can just reject ideas based on where they fall on the currently defined political spectrum.

<{anton}>

Run out of his own thread.
 
I'm for conservatism. I'm against people who pick and choose in it's application.

Limited government would mean not telling people who they can marry or preventing women from aborting pregnancies up to the 9th month...if they wanted to. Rewarding hard work and so forth would mean not creating protectionist strategies for failing industries. Defending the Constitution would include not targeting Islam the religion for the malfeasance of some of its worshippers. It means accepting that the public can silence speech even when the government can't.

Generally, I support conservatism when it's practiced consistently. I don't support hypocrisy that dresses itself in the robes of conservatism when it's convenient.
Excellent post
 
Please can another crank post a thread about liberals. They are so well thought out and have been shocking my belief structure to the core.
 
I'll never be a conservative but the ideology has a few decent things to say. Don't go hogwild on spending. Don't make changes too fast. Don't give the government too much power.

Modern American conservatism, as practiced by the Republican party, is irredeemable garbage designed for the sole purpose of stacking the deck for the weatlhy.
 
honestly, its because of social policies like same sex marriage and abortions

notice when people say they hate conservatives, over 90% of the time its racist/homophobic/misogynist etc. and not about how they want to control the economy and the size of the government?

i feel like most people identify with libertarian ideals but the libertarian party has sucked ass at getting their message out
 
A lot of people are trying to avoid real work or getting their hands dirty. They will take pointless educational jobs that pay beans and complain they're whole life that greedy selfish conservatives are unwilling to double their pay. They don't like to compete.
Its really selfish and mean when someone they believe is dumber than they are starts with nothing and earns more than they do by simply working hard. Liberals with chunky plastic framed glasses could be truckers. They lack only toughness. It becomes a terrible envy with libs. They are accustomed to examining "how things should be". When they realize that knowledge doesn't pay bills and some meathead next door with a frozen foods truck earns twice what they do, it creates cognitive dissonance. Its like watching an unathletic person that's skilled at martial arts if you are a football dude.
 
In terms of ideology I've got no beef with conservatism, but I do have a problem with a lot of those who refer to themselves as conservative. Panamaican nailed it when he said many conservatives are more than happy to bail on their principles when convenient. Grenz made a good point also and I will take his one step further. Conservatives seem to see everything that is not conservative not simply being bad or stupid, but an actual sign of something evil. Any difference in opinion is part of the "plan." OP pretty much optimizes that, but there are so many that are just like him.
 
The idea of conserving what is good in society is a good one.
 
Good grief when you put it that way and if youre being honest and unbiased the answer is clear. The only ones I agree for the idiot side are seperation of church and state and pro choice.
 
Why is everything split into conservative vs liberal ideology? There is more gray area in between that most would agree with. Not all "conservatives" believe the same things, and same for "liberals".

Because people are too fucking stupid to think and need everything to be split up into two polar opposites in order to "understand" the issue.
 
Political labels are often for ease of communication and to simplify a complicated world through the use of categories. Identifying as Liberal or Conservative doesn't mean that you must perfectly fall into these categories as they are defined on paper, and it's illogical when people end up doing just that just to better represent the ideology.

My worldview is better represented by conservatism, it is not born from it, nor does it need to adhere to all of the supposed tenets.
 
Simply conservatism is a resistance to change.

Check out the dictionary definition.

Nearly all the improvements in our living environment have comes about by great change either socially, technologically, morally etc etc. Change is a part of progress.

Sometimes I look at posts/users in the war room and think why do I bother.

Liberals on the extreme left take it too far and conservatives on the right take it too far on the opposite side (resistance to change).

Balance is what is needed.
 
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