Why Rickson Gracie hates berimbolo (and 50-50) --

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Chump, Jun 12, 2017.

  1. Chump White Belt

    Chump
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    #1
  2. JosephDredd Gold Belt

    JosephDredd
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    I agree with him.
     
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  3. Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

    Calibur
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    I'm not sure what he is going to say but it will probably translate into "I'm a superstar of a niche sport worried about no longer having a vocal monopoly on said niche sport. "
     
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  4. nefti Red Belt

    nefti
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    "A small irony here is that Rickson's dad, Helio Gracie, was, during his first ring career (1932-1936), one of those people who aimed at boring defensive matches (which fans hated). It was Helio's older brother George who took risks and went for the submissions (which fans loved). George got more submissions and pleased the fans, but he also lost more. That's the way it works. George and Helio both went for submissions when circumstances were favorable, but George went for them even when circumstances should have counseled greater defensiveness. George wanted to win by submission, Helio wanted to avoid losing (for details see Choque vol. 1) "
     
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  5. selfcritical Brown Belt

    selfcritical
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    "Everything needs to be about self defense" and "Anything that can be used for stalling is worthless" are mutually contradictory points. Helio was the poster child for stalling. I literally don't know what universe the berimbolo isn't a technique aimed at getting a finish. What does he think Rafa and the Miyaos do when they get to the back? As to 50/50, do we think that people are immune to heel hooks on the street?
     
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  6. Canada23 Banned

    Canada23
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    THIS
     
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  7. Xuh Black Belt

    Xuh
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    I imagine he doesn't see it as some 'niche sport' though, but rather a fighting art and is disparaging anything that makes it less 'fight'-y and more 'sport'-y

    (& having typed that I click on the link and that is indeed what he's saying).
     
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  8. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
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    Three things stand out to me from this interview.

    • Rickson may not have really understood what the berimbolo was at the time, because the berimbolo is many things but not a stalling position. The whole point of it is to get to the back as quickly as possible, and the real experts of it take the back and finish a lot.
    • It's funny that a guy who is so fighting focused would implicitly ingrain IBJJF rules into his thinking. I say that because 50/50, while definitely a stalling position in gi BJJ without heel hooks, is incredibly dangerous in a real fight. The guy who is better at the position will usually finish his opponent from there. One of the comments is a rhetorical question 'would you go into 50/50 with a 150 kg guy in a fight?' as if that's an insane notion...personally, 50/50 is one of the places I'd most want to be against a 150 kg person in a fight, because all that weight is going to be kept off me and being huge doesn't make you immune to inside heel hooks.
    • So wait...is BJJ about being opportunistic, defending until your opponent is tired, and then submitting him, or is it about aggressively dominating him and finishing? Because the former is what most of Helio's side of the family has always said (including Helio himself), but Rickson seems to be criticizing that mindset in this interview.
    So many of Rickson's interviews just seem to come down 'You kids get off my lawn'. I wish that just once instead of asking him about sport BJJ, him saying that real BJJ is about fighting, and the question ending there someone would ask him to explain why then when modern MMA has diverged so far from the Gracie style which Rickson still seems to define as the last word on unarmed combat that his style hasn't evolved to keep pace.
     
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  9. bjjaz Got the Rock...Time to Roll

    bjjaz
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    Great post.

    Truthfully, I'm over him and don't really bother reading/listening to him anymore.
     
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  10. Human Bass Black Belt

    Human Bass
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    Well, without reaping and heelhooks, 50/50 tends to be awful indeed.
     
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  11. yetanother Purple Belt

    yetanother
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    How do you want to use reaping from 50/50?
     
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  12. kenpeters8 Purple Belt

    kenpeters8
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    Berimbolo is not my cup of tea. I like 50-50 only when heel hook is allowed. In gi BJJ when heel hook is not allowed, 50-50 is so pointless and so easy to stall.
     
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  13. yetanother Purple Belt

    yetanother
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    The berimbolo is super cool, it doesn't work in mma because you can't grab the clothes because of the rules.
    Would be overpowered in a vale tudo beach fight in speedos if you where determined enough to make the grip.
     
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  14. MaxMMA Blue Belt

    MaxMMA
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    Someone enlighten me, im not up to speed on these new age jiu-jitsu techniques... dafaq is 50/50... are they just talking about North/South?
     
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  15. MaxMMA Blue Belt

    MaxMMA
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    Also can someone post some vids of people getting berimbolod in comp? Just doesn't seem like a high % technique, even in pure jiu-jitsu matches.
     
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  16. yetanother Purple Belt

    yetanother
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  17. yetanother Purple Belt

    yetanother
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    [​IMG]

    It's a heel hook position that's strong for sweeping and hard to pass so matches get stuck there a lot (there are some crazy escapes from there now days but it's still slow)
     
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  18. yetanother Purple Belt

    yetanother
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    Footage of the day Rickson started to hate 50/50
     
    #18
  19. MaxMMA Blue Belt

    MaxMMA
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    Ok, so its just the heel hook...
     
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  20. Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

    Calibur
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    Your statement is like If you asked "what's a minigun" and we showed you a picture and you replied, "ah, so it's just a bullet then. "

    Heel hooks are a submission. 50/50 is a position you can do heel hooks from. It's called 50/50 because both people can heel hook each other equally when in traditional leg lock positions one person has a slight positional advantage.

    It's deeper then that but that's the basic.
     
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