Why is it so tough to have public health care?

[original doom]

It's underfunded by design and because of that numerous trusts have financial problems.

Starving the beast. Privatisation as a solution.

Do you think the government can afford both boomer pensions and free healthcare. I dont think australia can, so i guess our taxes will be increased in years to come.

 

[FIMN]

Do you think the government can afford both boomer pensions and free healthcare. I dont think australia can, so i guess our taxes will be increased in years to come.

Assuming that i) people generally use the most healthcare resources in the first and last 10% of their life and ii) life expectancy increases with the advancement of medical technology etc, more resources will need to be dedicated to healthcare in future. Assuming everything else remains the same.

In answer to your actual question, it's not really a question of whether we can afford it. We will pay it. It's just a question of how.

 

[Throttlehead]

Why should someone have to pay for someone else's healthcare?

Because it apparently costs 1/2 as much and everyone gets care. Sound like a deal?

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Its weird dude. It seems most people would rather get ripped off by insurance comapnies and rx companies than suffer the idea that their tax dollars might have went to some bum or whatever as if 1 everyone doesnt feel that way to some extent and 2 this isnt america where we can do anything better than anywhere else whenever we want. We could be crankin out doctors , changing the rules so that like nurses and lower peons could dish out simple shit like anti biotics , forcing rx companies to cut deals and making cuts to other welfare programs to fund it.


You know who I blame no joke for why people are so scared of national healthcare ? The Dmv and the county clerks office. People know this is the government at work and its stupid inefficient and just gives everyone a bad impression and a huge headache

Real talk if we ended welfare for single moms and retards who made bad decisions and got rid of food stamps , obama phones , single mother free lunch programs and all the other horse shit most people in society dont use how far could we go putting that into a national plan ? How much further would we go if we legalized pot and all tax proceeds went into the uhc fund? If we up taxes on people who make like 5 mil and up are we there ? if we cut the military by like 3 percent or something small will it fill the gap? If we restructure prison and law enforcement does it fill the gap? Its really time to be serious about what we need and what we dont and how its going to get funded. I think what pisses people off the most about taxes is that the bulk of this country goes to work and pays them but never sees any of the rewards because they are not flat ass broke or scrooge mcduck rich or a criminal soaking up funds just to play chess all fuckin day.

Yeah it's mental that we are bending over for insurance companies but that's America these days. The corporations hold the power in most cases

And lol the DMV is a place straight from hell.

 

[7437]

The reason is that a large portion of the population thinks a lot of people should not recieve healthcare.

 

[machidafan99]

Because health insurance companies make large donations to political parties & campaigns and have effective lobbyists.

 

[nostradumbass]

Any evidence or first hand experience to support that?

When you go to the docs they ask you general health questions, weight, do you smoke Etc and provide free resources and access to groups that help.

The idea that if you give free Drs visits that people will just go for no reason seems bizarre, outside of the usual hypocondriac types which make up a miniscule % of any given population.

I've posted this before but in the UK I had access to UHC for less tax money than it costs you Americans, and private cover through work that cost me the equivalent of $20 per month tax free.

It's disingenuous to say "costs you americans". It doesn't cost me at all. I went to the Dr. once about 15 years ago to get 3 stitches, and then again about 3 years ago to get bloodwork just cause I felt like I hadn't been in a while. That's much less than I would have paid in buying into insurance or the extra taxes for UHC.

My sister goes every single time she feels a little nauseous or her kid hits his head on something. Of course they just go for no reason, cause it's already paid for. People eat fucking expired food cause they don't want to waste what's already paid for. The hell land do you live in where people don't use up the max of what they possibly can with no added expense?

 

[FIMN]

It's disingenuous to say "costs you americans". It doesn't cost me at all. I went to the Dr. once about 15 years ago to get 3 stitches, and then again about 3 years ago to get bloodwork just cause I felt like I hadn't been in a while. That's much less than I would have paid in buying into insurance or the extra taxes for UHC.

My sister goes every single time she feels a little nauseous or her kid hits his head on something. Of course they just go for no reason, cause it's already paid for. People eat fucking expired food cause they don't want to waste what's already paid for. The hell land do you live in where people don't use up the max of what they possibly can with no added expense?

As previously mentioned americans pay more tax for healthcare than anyone under UHC, so in fact you are paying for it.

Do you have any evidence that isn't anecdotal suggesting that people under UHC take unnecessary doctor visits just because it costs nothing? I mean I've lived in the UK for many years, and nobody I know goes if they don't have to. Because.... why would you? It's the same reason you don't call the police if you're scared of shadows, or the fire service if you burn the toast. It's illogical. Hypochondriacs aside, the cost of abusing that service pales in comparison to people who need it that cannot get it. I have been to the Drs twice in 7 years. I could've gone every week but chose not to. Why is that?

 

[ChainFlow]

But guys, there's this little old lady who calls the police every time something noisy happens outside her house at night. Doesn't that mean we should abolish the police in my city so that she can't keep using that service without paying for it?

Keeping people like her from using that service without dire need is so important to me that it more than makes up for whatever potential bad consequences not having a public police force will cause.

I bet if we started paying the local gangsters protection money, they'd take care of us anyway. Who cares if the overall costs are twice as high as our police-funding taxes were, and sometimes the gangsters decide that I've hit a lifetime cap on my protection money benefits and they're not going to be so nice? Or that I didn't pay the right amount to deal with someone kidnapping my wife and kids, I only paid into the mugging-protection plan? This way I'm free to not pay the gangsters if I want, and more importantly no one else is getting something for what I feel like is free.

 

[oldshadow]

All those articles suggest that underfunding is the cause, not UHC as a concept.

And communism as a concept is a great sounding idea.

The trouble is it has lots of problems in the real world.

UNC works only if everyone pays in so those that need it can take out. If the number of people paying in reduces something must give. Now they are not going to kick people that don't pay out of the UNC plan, like insurance would do. So something has to give and that's all people get less care slower.

Again you have to be able to convince the majority that have health insurance they would be better off with UNC.

So people don't see that. Not that what we have doesn't have lots of problems but we don't want to get something worse.

Cost is not the only factor here, a big one but not the biggest one. Quality and availability are the biggest ones.

 

[lilelvis]

I might just get one because it wouldnt cost me shit.

Sure couldn't hurt

 

[nostradumbass]

As previously mentioned americans pay more tax for healthcare than anyone under UHC, so in fact you are paying for it.

Do you have any evidence that isn't anecdotal suggesting that people under UHC take unnecessary doctor visits just because it costs nothing? I mean I've lived in the UK for many years, and nobody I know goes if they don't have to. Because.... why would you? It's the same reason you don't call the police if you're scared of shadows, or the fire service if you burn the toast. It's illogical. Hypochondriacs aside, the cost of abusing that service pales in comparison to people who need it that cannot get it. I have been to the Drs twice in 7 years. I could've gone every week but chose not to. Why is that?

Well no, in fact I'm not paying for it. I've spent waaaaay less on my 2 Dr. visits than I would have in extra taxes or insurance. You're getting into this weird thing where you blow it up to the whole country and then shrink it down to the individual in the same argument to make your point work.

And fucking yes, of course people will use more of what they think is already paid for. Of course your comparisons are true, because burnt toast is not a fire department problem, nor are shadows a police problem.

What does "need it and cannot get it" even mean? Someone who happened to have a heart attack at the exact right time they were between jobs? Nobody in my family is rich, and I was the first person to not have medical insurance for a few years. I guess you live in the UK, so maybe not that familiar with the system we had, but it was not that everybody was just shelling out thousands every month. "Benefits" at jobs included medical, dental, 401k, which is something most people have by the time they actually have any need for it.

My sisters have gone to the Dr. for stupid reasons just because they can, @JonnyRingo84 just said the same about his aunt. It's "illogical" to overuse something you already know is paid for and costs you nothing? Fuck sense does that make?

 

[Gunny]

Because Republicans are sociopaths and the American people are dumb as fucking rocks. Pretty easy to understand.

Fuck off with that shit. Obama had both chambers and a super majority. The reasons we don't have universal healthcare are not partisan they're structural. Some of the most partisan democrats shills on this forum will make the arguments for why there shouldn't be UHC

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

Regardless the parents wanted to take him elsewhere for treatment and he was held against their will under armed guard.

Also, I did not respond to the rest of your post because it was just a bunch of links.

Links that backed up my points , something you haven't even tried to do

 

[Wally Brando]

Fuck off with that shit. Obama had both chambers and a super majority. The reasons we don't have universal healthcare are not partisan they're structural. Some of the most partisan democrats shills on this forum will make the arguments for why there shouldn't be UHC

Well the freedom caucus wouldn't be happy until 36 million people didn't have healthcare so.....

 

[Gunny]

Well the freedom caucus wouldn't be happy until 36 million people didn't have healthcare so.....

My post wasn't a defense of republicans. I was refuting the explicitly partisan reason you gave for why we don't have UHC

 

[wlu.29]

Good for you then. Canada's system is fine until you have a serious health issue. Which, I hope you never do.

how much does it cost to have a baby in the us?

i've had two born in the hospital and it didn't cost anything

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

My wife is a RN on a CICU unit here in the states. She is Canadian and has worked in both countries. Last month we went up to a city just outside of Toronto to see her aunt that was dying of congestive heart failure. She wanted to see my wife and son before she died.

She couldn't get proper pain medication, couldn't get into hospice and had to share a hospital room with a man with dementia. My wife was furious at the low standard of care.

Because she had no money. She wouldn't be doing better in the USA.
You see, you can still pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in "socialist" countries for private healthcare.

 

[Wally Brando]

My post wasn't a defense of republicans. I was refuting the explicitly partisan reason you gave for why we don't have UHC

Errr one party is in power right now so....

 

[Gunny]

Errr one party is in power right now so....

Don't give me that bullshit. Only once in my life has a party held both chambers, a supermajority and the presidency. That was the Dems under Obama and they didn't pass UHC.