Why is it a bad time to build a gaming PC?

Curly Peibce

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As I understand it mining crypto currency has made the price of gpu's skyrocket, how long do you think this will last?

Anyone build a PC for gaming in the past two or so years? Have any links for cheap gpu's?
 
Prices have been slowly dropping for a while. They're still pretty high, but nowhere near the peak.
 
There’s a ram “shortage” at the moment. The companies are claiming they’re having problems getting the raw material.
Solid state drives, system memory, and graphics cards all use memory that’s being affected by the shortage so prices for those items are higher than normal.
All the new devices like cell phones, smart TVs, etc use DDR4 memory. Graphics cards use DDR5 memory which has less of a demand due to it not being used in as many things. So when the memory manufactures get the raw materials to make ram, they make DDR4.
For example, when the iPhone 8 launched it consumed 18% of Ram production.
As for graphics cards, the demand due to crypto and the shortage due to ram production has caused the prices to sky rocket.
Prices are starting to drop, but we’re still not back to MSRP levels yet. When or if they will, who knows. Best place I’ve found to watch for deals is Reddit’s build a pc sales subreddit.
Some websites have email notifications you can set up for when a card goes in stock.
 
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There’s a ram “shortage” at the moment. The companies are claiming they’re having problems getting the raw material.
Solid state drives, system memory, and graphics cards all use memory that’s being affected by the shortage so prices for those items are higher than normal.
All the new devices like cell phones, smart TVs, etc use DDR4 memory. Graphics cards use DDR5 memory which has less of a demand due to it not being used in as many things. So when the memory manufactures get the raw materials to make ram, they make DDR4.
For example, when the iPhone 8 launched it consumed 18% of Ram production.
As for graphics cards, the demand due to crypto and the shortage due to ram production has caused the prices to sky rocket.
Prices are starting to drop, but we’re still not back to MSRP levels yet. When or if they will, who knows. Best place I’ve found to watch for deals is Reddit’s build a pc sales subreddit.
Some websites have email notifications you can set up for when a card goes in stock.
What do you think of Bitmain's new Ethereum miner, the Antminer E3? Could it help cool the GPU market when it releases this summer?

https://blog.bitmex.com/nextstageinmining/

https://shop.bitmain.com/product/detail?pid=00020180415224621448vNvcN3mW06D8

I'm not into crypto so I don't understand the technical discussion but it sounds like this could be a viable alternative to GPUs. If not, it shows there are companies like Bitmain looking to cash in on the mining craze so it could only be a matter of time. The trend bodes well for gamers.
 
What do you think of Bitmain's new Ethereum miner, the Antminer E3? Could it help cool the GPU market when it releases this summer?

https://blog.bitmex.com/nextstageinmining/

https://shop.bitmain.com/product/detail?pid=00020180415224621448vNvcN3mW06D8

I'm not into crypto so I don't understand the technical discussion but it sounds like this could be a viable alternative to GPUs. If not, it shows there are companies like Bitmain looking to cash in on the mining craze so it could only be a matter of time. The trend bodes well for gamers.
It all depends on if this ram shortage is real or not.
If it is a shortage, the available ddr5 will be used in the etherium miners instead of graphics cards.
Companies are going to sell to whoever is willing to pay the highest price.
It could get worse because miners are willing to pay a higher than normal cost because they make a return on their investment. That would mean even less DDR available to graphics cards manufacturers when Etheriun miner manufactures are buying up all the stock.
 
Well, it's not like you can't get a gaming pre-built PC for a fantastic price that you can expand on a bit because it is built on the ATX form factor, not some customized office bullshit, and which has a value the self-building market can't reliably match:

CyberpowerPC Gamer Xtreme GXIVR8020A5
81Pz14q%2B%2BHL._SL1500_.jpg


https://www.amazon.com/CYBERPOWERPC...=1525711576&sr=1-3&keywords=cyberpowerpc&th=1
  • B360 Motherboard (varies: ex. MSI B360 Bazooka)
  • Intel i5-8400
  • RX 580 4GB
  • 8GB DDR4 RAM
  • 1TB HDD 7200 RPM
  • 600W PSU
  • Cooler Master MasterBox Lite 5 Tempered Glass ATX Case
  • 802.11ac WiFi/Bluetooth
  • Windows 10
  • CyberpowerPC Gaming Mouse & Keyboard
    $799
Just taking the cheapest and most similar shit this cost me $919--> +$120 / +15% (before any applicable tax and shipping differences if those may apply):
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/kdFJfH
 
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Well, it's not like you can't get a gaming pre-built PC for a fantastic price that you can expand on a bit because it is built on the ATX form factor, not some customized office bullshit, and which has a value the self-building market can't reliably match:

CyberpowerPC Gamer Xtreme GXIVR8020A5
81Pz14q%2B%2BHL._SL1500_.jpg


https://www.amazon.com/CYBERPOWERPC...=1525711576&sr=1-3&keywords=cyberpowerpc&th=1
  • B360 Motherboard (varies: ex. MSI B360 Bazooka)
  • Intel i5-8400
  • RX 580 4GB
  • 8GB DDR4 RAM
  • 1TB HDD 7200 RPM
  • 600W PSU
  • Cooler Master MasterBox Lite 5 Tempered Glass ATX Case
  • 802.11ac WiFi/Bluetooth
  • Windows 10
  • CyberpowerPC Gaming Mouse & Keyboard
    $799
Just taking the cheapest and most similar shit this cost me $919--> +$120 / +15% (before any applicable tax and shipping differences if those may apply):
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/kdFJfH


That is a good deal, but you can build a system very close with an SSD if you are willing to use a site like scdkey to get Windows 10 for around $12, or just download it and use it without a key.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8400 2.8GHz 6-Core Processor ($178.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock - H310M-DGS Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($55.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: ADATA - XPG GAMMIX D10 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: ADATA - Ultimate SU800 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Hitachi - 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($37.50 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB SC GAMING Video Card ($304.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master - MasterBox Q300L MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($38.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Corsair - CX (2017) 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Keyboard: Thermaltake - Commander Bundle Wired Gaming Keyboard w/Optical Mouse ($26.29 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $802.61
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-05-08 08:05 EDT-0400


You get a better power supply, an SSD, a slightly better GPU and a case that is not a hot box.
 
That is a good deal, but you can build a system very close with an SSD if you are willing to use a site like scdkey to get Windows 10 for around $12, or just download it and use it without a key.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8400 2.8GHz 6-Core Processor ($178.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock - H310M-DGS Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($55.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: ADATA - XPG GAMMIX D10 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: ADATA - Ultimate SU800 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Hitachi - 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($37.50 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB SC GAMING Video Card ($304.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master - MasterBox Q300L MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($38.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Corsair - CX (2017) 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Keyboard: Thermaltake - Commander Bundle Wired Gaming Keyboard w/Optical Mouse ($26.29 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $802.61
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-05-08 08:05 EDT-0400


You get a better power supply, an SSD, a slightly better GPU and a case that is not a hot box.
Yes, you can cut different corners with the motherboard (not B360), case (not Masterbox 5 Lite), HDD (not 64MB cache), wireless connectivity (this build has none), and the OS (piracy & pseudo-piracy), and produce a semi-similar result for less money. This overlooks the point.
 
Yes, you can cut different corners with the motherboard (not B360), case (not Masterbox 5 Lite), HDD (not 64MB cache), wireless connectivity (this build has none), and the OS (piracy & pseudo-piracy), and produce a semi-similar result for less money. This overlooks the point.

It's a slightly better result for the same money.

Even putting a WD Blue HD in the build only ups it by $10. As far as the case, the Masterbox 5 Lite is a hot box with restricted airflow. The only benefit is it look pretty. For wireless, if someone needs it another $20 and that is solved.

So $30 or so more for a better power supply, a better GPU, and an SSD is a pretty good deal. It goes to the point for this offer at least the self-building market can match it.
 
It's a slightly better result for the same money.

Even putting a WD Blue HD in the build only ups it by $10. As far as the case, the Masterbox 5 Lite is a hot box with restricted airflow. The only benefit is it look pretty. For wireless, if someone needs it another $20 and that is solved.

So $30 or so more for a better power supply, a better GPU, and an SSD is a pretty good deal. It goes to the point for this offer at least the self-building market can match it.
It's a slightly better result if you change the conditions of the matchup. You've resorted to a gray area market (similar to Kinguin) with the repurchased Windows keys. Additionally, you've ditched wireless connectivity, nerfed the B360 motherboard standard where an actual motherboard sample taken from one of these units-- the MSI Bazooka-- was used, nerfed the faster HDD, and arbitrarily decided that a more expensive "pretty" case isn't desirable.

Again, we've done this before. You cut corners to make up ground in cost when I'm just attempting to demonstrate that one a component-to-component basis the AIO market is delivering the same hardware for less money. I'm not presenting the absolute best value the AIO market can offer. I'm just referencing the #1 bestselling gaming-class model that also happens to meet the most popular current mainstream gaming hardware profile on Steam for dedicated PC gaming. Things get more complicated, yes, I agree, if we start probing where each strategy is more viable against market competitors.

For example, I could choose the Amazon #1 bestselling Tower unit of all, the refurbished HP Elite 8300 SFF for $195 (i5-3470 + 8GB DDR3 RAM + 500GB HDD + DVD-RW + Win10 Pro), and marry it to a 75W TDP low-profile Zotac GTX 1050 ($150) or 1050 Ti ($200) which can comfortably piggyback on the 300W PSU via the motherboard as well as fit in the case. For $345-$395 you have viable gaming power for a purchase path that's most complicated task is seating a card in a slot, and RAM can also be expanded cheaply-- for the moment.

The GTX 1050 Ti 4GB scores an 8.7 while the GTX 1050 2GB scores an 8.1 on Game Debate for the 1080p resolution. The i5-3470 notches a Quad Core Mixed score on UserBenchmark equal to the Ryzen 3 1200, i3-7350K, and significantly beyond any of the Coffee Lake "Gold" Pentiums. It's going to be nearly impossible on the self-building market to crack that $345 floor. That's on par with Console gaming prices ($180-$485), and the Ti version is considerably more powerful than the Xbox One S or original PS4. This is a processing core that can be expected to average above 60fps on Overwatch@1080p at High settings (GTX 1050 Ti avg <85fps) so this option can handle any eSport-class title. Guys who are interested in PC gaming at the bare minimum would find this highly attractive.

HP Elite 8300 Small Form Factor
41ZLGAJEh7L.jpg

905305748301C6DCACC445758B1B6108.jpg


This strategy can be pursued with SSDs, too, although it's much less effective for higher-performance builds since AIO PSUs tend to be crappy, and don't support the 8-pin connector required to power stronger cards.

I also haven't inspected CyberPowerPC or iBuyPower's home websites because they often have a certain customizable model on sale, and if you choose all the best values in each component field and take all the sensible offers, you can often come away with a 4K-class PC that is cheaper than anything you could get self-building.
 
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It's a slightly better result if you change the conditions of the matchup. You've resorted to a gray area market (similar to Kinguin) with the repurchased Windows keys. Additionally, you've ditched wireless connectivity, nerfed the B360 motherboard standard where an actual motherboard sample taken from one of these units-- the MSI Bazooka-- was used, nerfed the faster HDD, and arbitrarily decided that a more expensive "pretty" case isn't desirable.

Again, we've done this before. You cut corners to make up ground in cost when I'm just attempting to demonstrate that one a component-to-component basis the AIO market is delivering the same hardware for less money. I'm not presenting the absolute best value the AIO market can offer. I'm just referencing the #1 bestselling gaming-class model that also happens to meet the most popular current mainstream gaming hardware profile on Steam for dedicated PC gaming. Things get more complicated, yes, I agree, if we start probing where each strategy is more viable against market competitors.

For example, I could choose the Amazon #1 bestselling Tower unit of all, the refurbished HP Elite 8300 SFF for $195 (i5-3470 + 8GB DDR3 RAM + 500GB HDD + DVD-RW + Win10 Pro), and marry it to a 75W TDP low-profile Zotac GTX 1050 ($150) or 1050 Ti ($200) which can comfortably piggyback on the 300W PSU via the motherboard as well as fit in the case. For $345-$395 you have viable gaming power for a purchase path that's most complicated task is seating a card in a slot, and RAM can also be expanded cheaply-- for the moment.

The GTX 1050 Ti 4GB scores an 8.7 while the GTX 1050 2GB scores an 8.1 on Game Debate for the 1080p resolution. The i5-3470 notches a Quad Core Mixed score on UserBenchmark equal to the Ryzen 3 1200, i3-7350K, and significantly beyond any of the Coffee Lake "Gold" Pentiums. It's going to be nearly impossible on the self-building market to crack that $345 floor. That's on par with Console gaming prices ($180-$485), and the Ti version is considerably more powerful than the Xbox One S or original PS4. This is a processing core that can be expected to average above 60fps on Overwatch@1080p at High settings (GTX 1050 Ti avg <85fps) so this option can handle any eSport-class title. Guys who are interested in PC gaming at the bare minimum would find this highly attractive.

HP Elite 8300 Small Form Factor
41ZLGAJEh7L.jpg

905305748301C6DCACC445758B1B6108.jpg


This strategy can be pursued with SSDs, too, although it's much less effective for higher-performance builds since AIO PSUs tend to be crappy, and don't support the 8-pin connector required to power stronger cards.

I also haven't inspected CyberPowerPC or iBuyPower's home websites because they often have a certain customizable model on sale, and if you choose all the best values in each component field and take all the sensible offers, you can often come away with a 4K-class PC that is cheaper than anything you could get self-building.

You have to do your research when it comes to those Dells and HP's though. Some won't provide enough power to the PCI-e lane to power the card so you're stuck with what was available as stock. I can't tell you which models off the top of my head.
 
It's a slightly better besult
You should do your research when it comes to Dells and HP's. Some don't provide enough power to the PCI-X lane to power the ass so you're stuck with what was available. I can tell you which models but not off the top of my head.
 
You have to do your research when it comes to those Dells and HP's though. Some won't provide enough power to the PCI-e lane to power the card so you're stuck with what was available as stock. I can't tell you which models off the top of my head.
You should do your research when it comes to Dells and HP's. Some don't provide enough power to the PCI-X lane to power the ass so you're stuck with what was available. I can tell you which models but not off the top of my head.
???, LOL.

Fair point, but with all of the different models available on Amazon (HP, Acer, Lenovo, Dell) you're bound to find multiple viable models with Reddit to reference and double-check compatibility.

Google says this Dell Optiplex 3010 can house the low-profile GTX 1050/Ti cards:
2018 DELL 3010 Flagship Business Desktop SFF Intel Ci5 3470 3.2GHz up to 3.6GHz, 8GB, 2TB HDD, DVD, WIFI,W10P64 (Certified Refurbished)
This one adds WiFi and a 2TB HDD upgrade to the i5-3470 + 8GB DDR3 RAM + DVD-RW + Win10 Pro combo for a price of $250.
 
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It's a slightly better result if you change the conditions of the matchup. You've resorted to a gray area market (similar to Kinguin) with the repurchased Windows keys. Additionally, you've ditched wireless connectivity, nerfed the B360 motherboard standard where an actual motherboard sample taken from one of these units-- the MSI Bazooka-- was used, nerfed the faster HDD, and arbitrarily decided that a more expensive "pretty" case isn't desirable.

Yes, I gave up those things, with good reason. As for Windows, if Microsoft wanted to end the gray market or not let people download Window 10 from their own site and use it without a key they could. Until they do those are viable options.

As for wireless, a simple 20 USB WiFi dongle can solve that if needed. In these argument you always bring up things like this that a lot of people will not need.

The diffence between a H310 board and an B360 on is USB 3.1 gen 2. Unless you have devices that are that standard it is not going to make one bit of difference.

Finally the case change was not arbitrary at all. That case with it's front glass panel is a hot box with very little air flow. Hell, even the Amazon reviews stated the heat issue. It is no wonder Cyberpower is most likely getting those cases for cheap.

So, the changes I made were overall for the better.

Again, we've done this before. You cut corners to make up ground in cost when I'm just attempting to demonstrate that one a component-to-component basis the AIO market is delivering the same hardware for less money. I'm not presenting the absolute best value the AIO market can offer. I'm just referencing the #1 bestselling gaming-class model that also happens to meet the most popular current mainstream gaming hardware profile on Steam for dedicated PC gaming. Things get more complicated, yes, I agree, if we start probing where each strategy is more viable against market competitors.

Yes, I cut different corners then the system integrator did. I would suggest that most people get a better power supply over motherboard chipset with a feature that is not going to make a difference for them. Let's talk about that power supply. There is a reason they put a 600W psu in a build like that, and it is not for upgrades later on. It is because they are using cheap PSU's that are rated for lower temps. So when things heat up the PSU can still output enough power, of course it won't be able to deliver 600W. Not to mention it could also lack protections such as over temperature.

For example, I could choose the Amazon #1 bestselling Tower unit of all, the refurbished HP Elite 8300 SFF for $195 (i5-3470 + 8GB DDR3 RAM + 500GB HDD + DVD-RW + Win10 Pro), and marry it to a 75W TDP low-profile Zotac GTX 1050 ($150) or 1050 Ti ($200) which can comfortably piggyback on the 300W PSU via the motherboard as well as fit in the case. For $345-$395 you have viable gaming power for a purchase path that's most complicated task is seating a card in a slot, and RAM can also be expanded cheaply-- for the moment.

The GTX 1050 Ti 4GB scores an 8.7 while the GTX 1050 2GB scores an 8.1 on Game Debate for the 1080p resolution. The i5-3470 notches a Quad Core Mixed score on UserBenchmark equal to the Ryzen 3 1200, i3-7350K, and significantly beyond any of the Coffee Lake "Gold" Pentiums. It's going to be nearly impossible on the self-building market to crack that $345 floor. That's on par with Console gaming prices ($180-$485), and the Ti version is considerably more powerful than the Xbox One S or original PS4. This is a processing core that can be expected to average above 60fps on Overwatch@1080p at High settings (GTX 1050 Ti avg <85fps) so this option can handle any eSport-class title. Guys who are interested in PC gaming at the bare minimum would find this highly attractive.

Oh, you can do that for an ultra budget solution. Of course you could go even lower picking up a system like that on Craigslist. I never claimed that building your own system wins at every price point.

This strategy can be pursued with SSDs, too, although it's much less effective for higher-performance builds since AIO PSUs tend to be crappy, and don't support the 8-pin connector required to power stronger cards.

I also haven't inspected CyberPowerPC or iBuyPower's home websites because they often have a certain customizable model on sale, and if you choose all the best values in each component field and take all the sensible offers, you can often come away with a 4K-class PC that is cheaper than anything you could get self-building.

Perhaps you could come away with a 4k system cheaper. That does not mean it is going to be better.
 
Yes, I gave up those things, with good reason. As for Windows, if Microsoft wanted to end the gray market or not let people download Window 10 from their own site and use it without a key they could. Until they do those are viable options.

As for wireless, a simple 20 USB WiFi dongle can solve that if needed. In these argument you always bring up things like this that a lot of people will not need.

The diffence between a H310 board and an B360 on is USB 3.1 gen 2. Unless you have devices that are that standard it is not going to make one bit of difference.

Finally the case change was not arbitrary at all. That case with it's front glass panel is a hot box with very little air flow. Hell, even the Amazon reviews stated the heat issue. It is no wonder Cyberpower is most likely getting those cases for cheap.

So, the changes I made were overall for the better.

Yes, I cut different corners then the system integrator did. I would suggest that most people get a better power supply over motherboard chipset with a feature that is not going to make a difference for them. Let's talk about that power supply. There is a reason they put a 600W psu in a build like that, and it is not for upgrades later on. It is because they are using cheap PSU's that are rated for lower temps. So when things heat up the PSU can still output enough power, of course it won't be able to deliver 600W. Not to mention it could also lack protections such as over temperature.

Oh, you can do that for an ultra budget solution. Of course you could go even lower picking up a system like that on Craigslist. I never claimed that building your own system wins at every price point.

Perhaps you could come away with a 4k system cheaper. That does not mean it is going to be better.
Yes, superior features' superiority doesn't matter unless you need them, but you might; also, all that is needed to add capabilities is a wireless dongle, but things like that cost money, and this is debate concerning cost. "Better" is not a malleable concept when regarding components with more subjective appeal and preference like cases. One could add a $25 120GB SSD to the CPPC build to bring its total to $825.

$558 self-building versus the $450 for the Dell Optiplex 3010 + Zotac Low-Profile GTX 1050 Ti I presented above.
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/KTjpHh
Alternatively, I can get it down to $519 if there is no WiFi and we reduce the HDD back down to 500GB to match against the $395 HP Elite 8300 SFF w/GTX 1050 Ti option (which nobody has ruled out as a possible foundation):
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Ngq3yX

I'm illuminating to the threadstarter that there are other options besides pure building. He could just wait considering what's stirring with NVIDIA:
NVIDIA’s GeForce GTX 1180 Based On 12nm FinFET Surfaces In TechPowerUp GPU Database
That processing power is better than the Titan XPP.
 
Yes, superior features' superiority doesn't matter unless you need them, but you might; also, all that is needed to add capabilities is a wireless dongle, but things like that cost money, and this is debate concerning cost. "Better" is not a malleable concept when regarding components with more subjective appeal and preference like cases. One could add a $25 120GB SSD to the CPPC build to bring its total to $825.

$558 self-building versus the $450 for the Dell Optiplex 3010 + Zotac Low-Profile GTX 1050 Ti I presented above.
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/KTjpHh
Alternatively, I can get it down to $519 if there is no WiFi and we reduce the HDD back down to 500GB to match against the $395 HP Elite 8300 SFF w/GTX 1050 Ti option (which nobody has ruled out as a possible foundation):
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Ngq3yX

I'm illuminating to the threadstarter that there are other options besides pure building. He could just wait considering what's stirring with NVIDIA:
NVIDIA’s GeForce GTX 1180 Based On 12nm FinFET Surfaces In TechPowerUp GPU Database
That processing power is better than the Titan XPP.

Of course there are option other then just building. For him one of those might be better. However, you are the one that made the claim that deal you presented could not be matched in building your own. That was wrong and I showed why.

The thing is even in you presenting builds you seem to lose the forest in the tree as you are always trying to match part for part. That is not the way to look at this. Even for $100 more then the refurbished Dell, something like this...

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 3 1200 3.1GHz Quad-Core Processor ($91.50 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI - B350M PRO-VD PLUS Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($60.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: ADATA - XPG GAMMIX D10 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: ADATA - Ultimate SU800 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($65.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB Video Card ($189.00 @ Amazon)
Case: Cougar - MX330 ATX Mid Tower Case ($24.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Corsair - CX (2017) 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($39.99 @ Newegg Business)
Total: $552.44
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-05-09 00:05 EDT-0400


...is a much better value. No you don't have the storage to start with, but adding a HDD later is an easy upgrade. Not to mention the ability to overclock the R3 1200.
 
Of course there are option other then just building. For him one of those might be better. However, you are the one that made the claim that deal you presented could not be matched in building your own. That was wrong and I showed why.

The thing is even in you presenting builds you seem to lose the forest in the tree as you are always trying to match part for part. That is not the way to look at this. Even for $100 more then the refurbished Dell, something like this...

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 3 1200 3.1GHz Quad-Core Processor ($91.50 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI - B350M PRO-VD PLUS Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($60.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: ADATA - XPG GAMMIX D10 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: ADATA - Ultimate SU800 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($65.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB Video Card ($189.00 @ Amazon)
Case: Cougar - MX330 ATX Mid Tower Case ($24.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Corsair - CX (2017) 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($39.99 @ Newegg Business)
Total: $552.44
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-05-09 00:05 EDT-0400


...is a much better value. No you don't have the storage to start with, but adding a HDD later is an easy upgrade. Not to mention the ability to overclock the R3 1200.
Here, again, you say, "...is a much better value", but of course that may not be the judgment of the person buying your build, when rather he desires a sub-$400 price point, but besides that, this time your attempts to argue a better value aren't defensible.

You could just as easily add the an SSD to the HP Elite 8300 SFF with a 2.5"-to-3.5" adapter bracket, clone the drive, and you've again left off the DVD-RW (you cheat with these omissions repeatedly...I also noticed you're forgetting your $14 scdkey which brings its total to $566).

Adding that 240GB SSD to the HP brings its total to $451 ($195 HP Elite 8300 + $7 adapter bracket + $199 Zotac Low-Profile GTX 1050 Ti 4GB + $50 250GB Lite L5 SSD) which is a full $115 cheaper than your build above already that is lacking 500GB in storage and a DVD-RW optical drive. That's okay. I'll generously give you overclocking + DDR4 RAM speed as a trade.

That isn't winning by a little. That's a 25% difference in price.
 
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Here, again, you say, "...is a much better value", but of course that may not be the judgment of the person buying your build, when rather he desires a sub-$400 price point, but besides that, this time your attempts to argue a better value aren't defensible.

You could just as easily add the an SSD to the HP Elite 8300 SFF with a 2.5"-to-3.5" adapter bracket, clone the drive, and you've again left off the DVD-RW (you cheat with these omissions repeatedly...I also noticed you're forgetting your $14 scdkey which brings its total to $566).

Adding that 240GB SSD to the HP brings its total to $451 ($195 HP Elite 8300 + $7 adapter bracket + $199 Zotac Low-Profile GTX 1050 Ti 4GB + $50 250GB Lite L5 SSD) which is a full $115 cheaper than your build above already that is lacking 500GB in storage and a DVD-RW optical drive. That's okay. I'll generously give you overclocking + DDR4 RAM speed as a trade.

That isn't winning by a little. That's a 25% difference in price.

No, they are objectively a better value to the vast majority of people. No one cares about DVD-RW anymore and the 14 for a CDkey is very little, not to mention you can get that later because you can use windows without a key.

Going the Dell route gets you a power supply you are not going to be able to reuse for anything. You are not going to be able to install a higher end GPU later. You can't even change or do anything with cooling in those cases. For that price someone just looking to game is better off getting a console.
 
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No, they are objectively a better value to the vast majority of people.
We departed from objectivity when we started comparing unlike parts.
No one cares about DVD-RW anymore and the 14 for a CDkey is very little, not to mention you can get that later because you can use windows without a key.
Piracy is not the same as legally purchased software. Ditching the cost of the OS is one of those "tricks" you can use at the custom builder sites like CPPC & IBP.
Going the Dell route gets you a power supply you are not going to be able to reuse for anything. You are not going to be able to install a higher end GPU later. You can't even change or do anything with cooling in those cases. For that price someone just looking to game is better off getting a console.
If they're just going to buy a cheaper refurb again in 5 years I doubt they'd care. The point of this buy isn't upgradeability or reuseability. It's viable gaming power under $400.

You aren't fairly weighing each choice. Where does the ability to upgrade come from in your build? The Case and PSU, of course. Those cost $65 in your build. So I could literally purchase them, sit on them, and also have them for a future build while still beating your cost by $85 (once you add the 500GB HDD and scdkey...beat it by $50 without them). Your dogmatic devotion to building has caused you to overlook these simple considerations while scrambling to argue better value.
  1. The ability to upgrade the GPU 1x (R3-1200 bottlenecks beyond the GTX 1070)
  2. Case & PSU can be recycled towards new build
  3. Overclockable (which voids warranty)
  4. DDR4 RAM > DDR3 RAM
Are probably not worth ~$150 premium to most buyers on a $400 purchase.
 
new gpus coming out very soon so GPU prices are normal again, youll never stop the miners, theyll buy everything that is released soon so snap up a 1080ti while you can then just wait it out till the 1380ti. Considering the potato consoles a 1080ti will keep you miles ahead of the game for fucking donkeys years anyway.
 
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