Why GSP and Jones are the really GOATs (From a pure MMA point of view)

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by dragonsfly, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. dragonsfly

    dragonsfly '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

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    There is Fedor and anderson Silva in the convo and have always been but I beg to differ due to all roundness issue and if we look at it from a pure MMA dictionary point of view then they are GOAT level but not on equal terms with Jones and GSP.

    I appreciate the fact that they were untraditional but that is as far as it goes because nothing was secure on before hand meaning before they stepped inside the octagon and making light work of opponents not so good as themselves. They were good strikers but little bit wild and untraditional in pure MMA sense despite all the crazy wins they had nothing was secure (I will explain later what I mean by secure)

    1. Competition was never really as good as the competition Jones and GSP faced

    2. Anyone who is well rounded and can find loop holes can chellenge fedor and the Spider (More so the spider due to his lack of wrestling base still a legend striker but that handicap is huge)

    3. Point fighting (This is big part of MMA neglected or considered bad for whatever reason but big part of MMA and fundamental)

    establishing a base where you can enter the octagon and still walk away with the victory is huge and you don't have to finish your opponent or vice-versa. Being an excellent point scorer comes with extreme practice and learning distance, elusiveness, timing, speed, and calculcating the moves and staying ahead of your opponent.

    You can still be a very good elite fighter and fight the fight of your life and still lose to Jones in a 5 round fight on the score cards? Example Gustaffson's proved that you can beat the shit out of Jones but he will still make space for himself and move around the cage in ways that grant him advantage to land vital strikes enough to secure the fight. He keeps distances and has learned how to use his length expertly plus setting winning game-plans and it dosen't matter how tough the opponent or how much he can take on the night example like Glover he was tough and took alot of damage but still lost convincingly and it was not even close and never really harmed Jones.

    The same tactics is used by GSP but even in more extreme ways and way more defensive then Jones. He uses distances and staying away from harm as much as possible and his center of the octagon takedowns are mostly defensive and they come as counter to a missed jab or punch. His the grand-master of 50-45 and this comes with being well rounded and defensive overall and paying close attention to minor details and uses more time in nullifying the opponent then offensive.

    You can walk in the octagon fight the fight of your life and still walk out as the loser when you fight Jones and GSP. You will probably get 50-45'ed or 49-46'ed if you don't get stopped.

    This don't apply to Anderson and fedor and they don't have the all roundess and durablity plus the IQ to make things confusing for their opponents and basically outwit them but they can only beat them up and if the opponent is tough and gamed they can lose.

    The Win-lose ratio favors fighting styles like GSP and Jones and they barely lose and when they do it's just silly mistake that shouldn't have happened and still dosen't mean they are not superior to their opponents. Gsp proved this that his W and L count on him and not his opponent.

    If they are in their prime and well prepared it's very difficult to claim a victory over them except for a fluke win which dosen't even mean the opponent is better then them.

    What I mean by secure is that the ratio win is way much higher and secure with GSP and Jones
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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  2. fedoriswar37

    fedoriswar37 Purple Belt

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    Anybody who's well rounded can find loopeholes to beat fedor. Okay then . His entire style in his prime was based off of being... guess what, well rounded ...
     
  3. ALAN PARTRIDGE

    ALAN PARTRIDGE NO LONGER REGISTERED

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    Jones?????

    P.S only read the title
     
  4. dragonsfly

    dragonsfly '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

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    You can go 5 rounds with Fedor and beat him. If you can withstand his blitz and most of his opponents couldn't and I bet Cormier could withstand? then what happens? But with Jones you can go 5 rounds withstand his beating and still lose. The Win ratio always favors Jones style of fighting due to how he views MMA and fights from a pure MMA point of view. His wins are not a miracle but rather realistic based
     
  5. dragonsfly

    dragonsfly '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

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    Another factor to consider is that being well rounded enough to not get overran by your opponent and this gaves leverage to ethblish distances and pace. Keeping distance, staying claim and patient when chosing the strikes and picking opponents easily apart not being hasty
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  6. wlu.29

    wlu.29 Brown Belt

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    Gsp goat
     
  7. Frankie Baby!

    Frankie Baby! 145 Champ

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    WAR JONES
     
  8. PeterGriffin

    PeterGriffin Black Belt

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  9. IndyCovaHart

    IndyCovaHart Gold Belt

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    Y’all a buncha obsessed goat fuckers son.
     
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  10. Datura

    Datura Purple Belt

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    Fedor>GSP>>>MM

    Jones and Silva can't be in this discussion. Getting popped once is one thing but twice erases your GOAT status imo.

    I'd argue Fedor had slightly better competition than GSP. Also, MM needs to face better competion to solidify 3rd at this point. If he can clear out Bantam he could overtake the other two possibly.
     
  11. Datura

    Datura Purple Belt

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    Also, if taking 0 damage is your criteria MM is obviously GOAT
     
  12. TIMELESS TRUTH

    TIMELESS TRUTH Time Traveler

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    This goat thread is the goat of goat threads.
     
  13. Lint2

    Lint2 Purple Belt

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    I'm not sure if you ever thought of it this way, but the perception that Silva's ground game is poor is largely based on either a 17-to-1 TRT turbocharged Sonnen (which -in the end- lost, and that should be marked in favour, not against Silva) or DC, which is pretty likely the best (and lamest) wrestler in the UFC.

    I'm not arguing that you're wrong and Silva is a good ground gamer, but I for myself am not that sure he's so bad as people think he is.
     
  14. MMA__Analyst

    MMA__Analyst Purple Belt

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    Yeah Jones and GSP are 1 and 2, and if we factor Jones out of the convo due to PED's then GSP is most likely #1
     
  15. Datura

    Datura Purple Belt

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    I'll admit I'm a Jones hater but I think he gets dropped below Fedor and MM for the simple fact that not only did he have the reach advantage on all his opponents he was also very liberal with the eye pokes. That obviously wasn't enough so he also used PED's.

    Fedor fought monsters bigger than him that were on PED's.
    Jones is a monster in that division and he still cheated to beat smaller men.
     
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  16. MMA__Analyst

    MMA__Analyst Purple Belt

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    If this were just a few months ago, I would be defending Jones but after the 3rd failed test I don't have the energy or motivation to try and defend him.
     
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  17. dragonsfly

    dragonsfly '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

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    MM is great fighter by all standards but his competition is not top level hence why I have personally not considered him but his a great fighter but not on my GOAT list. I have fighters like D.Cruz ahead of him and even Matt Hughes
     
  18. dragonsfly

    dragonsfly '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

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    I'm not all into this PED talk but I was just coming from a pure MMA point of view. I think GSP and Jones are the best fighters who have ever stepped inside the octagon and their wins were realistic based and calculated in pure MMA sense nothing fluke or to wild and as far as win-lose ratio goes it's probably high they win then anyone else in MMA and again thats realistic based considering the fighting styles while results are just formality
     
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  19. Datura

    Datura Purple Belt

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    Even if you disregard the PED's Jones still had the reach advantage and was an extremely dirty fighter. When his reach was nullified by Gustafsson he got his ass kicked. He was a bully who should have been fighting at heavyweight.

    I feel like Fedor had a tougher gauntlet to run despite the losses at the end of his career and obviously no PED issues that we know of.
     
  20. dragonsfly

    dragonsfly '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

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    Having long limbs can be a huge disadvantage if you don't know how to use them. They can hinder mobility but learning how to use them is difficult.

    In a streetfight or a close-up nightclub fights you would find the stocky and short armed guys more lethal then one with long limbs due to lack of mobility. But learning how to use it and the movement with it is not easy
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017

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