Why do punchers dominate in MMA, while kickers never seem to cut it?

RichardN7 said:
I'm trying to understand striking, and which styles are most effective in a minimal-rules contest. I'm not spitting on MT or Kickboxing. I'm asking a valid question, and I never get a definitive answer.
Successful kickers were only successful in the early years of MMA. As things are now, they are usually beaten by wrestle-boxers.
I myself am a kickboxer first, and MMA is relatively new to me. I'm trying to understand how I should focus my training, not 'slighting' anything.
Click to expand...
Punch KO's happen in Kickboxing and Muay Thai litterally every event. Punches and kicks aren't mutually exclusive. Kick finishes come from UFC champs litterally all of the time. Do I seriously need to cite examples?
 
Who are the best kickers in UFC?
 
I would say there are a few reasons

1) small gloves = faster hands, easier to slip through "pockets" of defense where a boxing glove would be to large, punches do more damage due to the smaller gloves, easier ko etc.

2) takedowns = more likely to get taken down by someone catching your kick then a punch

3) easier to see a kick coming (unless it was set up with hands first)

Add all those together and there you have it, with a big emphasis on the takedown, which is why out of all the kicks you see used in mma, the teep is barely used at all.

IMO opinion the main martial arts used in mma, in order from most to least would be
1) BJJ
2) wrestling
3) boxing
4) muay thai
 
RichardN7 said:
Title says it.
Kickers like Pettis, Stephen Thompson and Barboza never get that fat. Meanwhile, boxers or wrestle-boxers like Dillashaw, Cody Garbrandt, McGregor, Mendes, Woodley, Rumble and Stipe always have an easy time against MT or Karate/TKD guys.
Why is boxing so much more successful and why is kicking so seemingly helpless in MMA...?
Click to expand...

Kicking is helpless? How about guys like Anderson Silva and Jose Aldo dominating their division for many years? Or other champions like Bas Rutten and Lyoto Machida? Even guys like Shogun Rua and Jon Jones could be considered to use a lot of kicks as part of their game.

And then you have guys like Anthony Pettis, Kyoji Horiguchi, Edson Barboza and Donald Cerrone who are all at the top and use a lot of kicks.
 
Small gloves in the primary reason. Watch Lethwei. They're not even worried about the takedown and they throw hands the whole fight. After punches the most effective seems to be knees, then headbutts.
 
SuperLuigi said:
Small gloves in the primary reason. Watch Lethwei. They're not even worried about the takedown and they throw hands the whole fight. After punches the most effective seems to be knees, then headbutts.
Click to expand...
Do they fight until someone gets KO'd? Would make sense to use less kicks then
 
From discussions of this same topic in the past with my MT coaches, I think it is because of the nature of the boxing stances and footwork vs MT/kicker's stance and footwork.

Boxing stance and footwork makes it a lot easier to counter takedown attempts because you can hit them and quickly come back out or change angles and slip out.

MT stance and footwork is not as good for MMA because MT concentrate more on creeping into range and walking down the opponent, which makes it an easier for peopel aiming for takedowns.

It is also reason why kickers who came from karate of TKD background as well do not do too bad either (people such as Stephen Thompson and Machida) - because karate and TKD kickers also uses a lot of speedy in-and-out type of footwork as well, though not as good for angling imo like boxing footwork.

So simply, imo it has to do with footwork (more than whether it is punching or kicking).
 
SuperLuigi said:
5 rounds, but the main goal is to get the KO and then get it again.
Click to expand...
Generally they seem to be less skilled kickers than thais aswell. I can imagine guys like Kongsak dominating against these guys with kicks, but it wouldn't make sense if you can't win be decision.
 
SpawnOfNyarlathotep said:
I'
Click to expand...

So what I was going to say before I accidentally posted (and then was unable to edit because of the pretty yellow color) was that I think that it has a lot to with the ruleset used in the UFC.
The rules are unfair to kickers because knees and kicks to the head are not allowed to "grounded opponents" (retarded concept BTW, it should be removed) while punches and elbows are legal under the same circumstances.
Under a better MMA ruleset you could for example directly attack with knees to the head after defending a double leg takedown via sprawl, which would most likely result in less attempted takedowns.
Also, the talent pool of hard kickers is a lot lower in the west compared to SE Asia.
 
Kicking is helpless he says... they only produced some of the most brutal finishes...

 
I mean, it's not like most of the guys you list who use punch offense frequently never use kicks. It's just more something they use as a set-up to punches rather than their main method of attack. TJ Dillashaw just broke John Lineker's jaw with a head kick, as well.

I think overall it's because most kicks are slower and come from further away than punches, and they're easier to counter with takedowns if you're not careful. There are still plenty of guys who use kicks meaningfully even if they finish their fights mostly with punches though. I.e. McGregor used outside low kicks against Diaz in their second fight and that definitely helped him win that fight. He also winded Mendes with a great deal of snap kicks, and he rocked Diego Brandao with an attempted wheel kick that landed with the calf and not the heel. So there's 3 McGregor fights where kicks were relevant factors to his victories.

A lot of guys who don't do well with kicks seem to lack awareness of when it is advisable to throw one.
 
Last edited:
T.S, back then in Pride and in the beginning stages of MMA. It used to be more international. So it attracted anything from Savate guys, to full fledged K1 strikers and Muay Thai fighters.

When the UFC took over. Many kicking based fighters who were fighting in MMA, such as in Pride and Heroes, went back to their respective striking sports instead of pursuing mma any further.

Not only that, but this also put a huge stop of potential kickboxing type fighters that could have become potential MMA fighters.

Then we have the rulesets, and most detrimental, the scoring system which favor grapplers. Many a time we've seen fights where the striker actually hurts the grappler, but a simple non damaging takedown and lay and pray cements the round for the grappler. Not good for business to enter the sport when it's mostly stacked against you.

Then we come to the ring/cage issue. Almost all striking arts fight in a ring. A ring has corners and it is shorter. This allows the striker to easily trap their prey, leading to heavy damage that would score, or create the beginnings of a TKO or KO. In the cage however, being so big and having no real corner, the grappler is free to run away at will. And reingage when he is ready for a takedown.

This cage only favors guys like Stephen Thompson and Lyoto Machida as strikers, seeing as how they're very elusive and can use their footwork and the immense sizr of the cage to actually evade grapplers.

And even then, kicking and kicking defense has problem invaluable at the highest levels of mma.

Conor barely scraped a win over pretty much pure boxer Diaz by kicking Diaz legs out. Jon Jones barely scraped a win over pretty much pure boxer Gus by kicking his head repeatedly.

Anderson Silva was a great kicker who has used his kicks to win multiple fights and he wouldn't be the champ he is today if it was just his boxing.

When Fedor fought Mirko, he spent the majority of his training camp in Holland sparring K1 fighters and learning to kick Crocops legs out evertime Crocop went for a head kick. It doesn't make Fedor a kicker per say. But nonetheless he focused and learned the art of Dutch style muay thai for a while.

Plenty of Champions have been kickers, and this includes guys like Conor, Dos Anjos, Fedor, and Jones and many others who even though aren't traditional kickers, still use kicking to get that extra advantage to get wins.

And of course then we have the countless of traditional kickers who have made a splash in the sport like GSP (kyokushin) Mirko, Aldo, Lyoto, Stefan, Pettis (who looked near invincible at some point) Shogun, Mousasi, Overeem, Igor, Anderson, Thiago Alves, Brandon Vera, Chuck Liddell (Kenpo), Donald Cerrone, Uriah Hall, and the list goes on.

So. As you can see T.S. There's plenty of reasons why kickers don't even bother going into MMA. And the small amount that do always manage to be very successful and even become Champs. Food for thought chief
 
shincheckin said:
I would say there are a few reasons

1) small gloves = faster hands, easier to slip through "pockets" of defense where a boxing glove would be to large, punches do more damage due to the smaller gloves, easier ko etc.

2) takedowns = more likely to get taken down by someone catching your kick then a punch

3) easier to see a kick coming (unless it was set up with hands first)

Add all those together and there you have it, with a big emphasis on the takedown, which is why out of all the kicks you see used in mma, the teep is barely used at all.

IMO opinion the main martial arts used in mma, in order from most to least would be
1) BJJ
2) wrestling
3) boxing
4) muay thai
Click to expand...

Your first point doesn't make sense if you're still on T.S.'s topic. By that logic then boxing is even worse than kicking for mma.
 
Kanka said:
Do they fight until someone gets KO'd? Would make sense to use less kicks then
Click to expand...

They're also extremely under trained and nowhere near the skill level of Thai fighters. Take a look a some of their fights. Would make sense they'd resort to hands seeing as how that is the natural human instinct of attack.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,236,979
Messages
55,458,770
Members
174,787
Latest member
Freddie556

Share this page

Back
Top