why do mma fighters do a lot strength conditioning compare to kickboxer

[rizky]

Is it because the wrestling? Why not spend more time sparring or drilling

 

[MandirigmaFit]

Some do, some don't.

 

[a guy]

Grappling requires more strength than striking.

 

[Frode Falch]

Yeah. As technical as grappling and wrestling is. . Raw strenght is more important then in only striking m

 

[DoctorTaco]

Because the sport requires more strength and conditioning.

 

[Tayski]

Deeper talent pool and more professionals in MMA than in Kickboxing right now. You really need to be at the very top of your abilities athletically and physically to make it to the top in MMA right now.

In the 90's it was almost the opposite: it was the golden era of K-1 and almost all the heavyweights were much more conditioned than most of the kickboxing heavyweights of today, maybe even more so than the MMA fighters of the 90's.

 

[aries]

Deeper talent pool and more professionals in MMA than in Kickboxing right now. You really need to be at the very top of your abilities athletically and physically to make it to the top in MMA right now.

In the 90's it was almost the opposite: it was the golden era of K-1 and almost all the heavyweights were much more conditioned than most of the kickboxing heavyweights of today, maybe even more so than the MMA fighters of the 90's.

This is not true at all. The golden age of Muay Thai had the best fighters in the 90's and they didn't train lots of strength. Strength is required in MMA that's why they train it. You don't need much strength for kick boxing or Muay Thai.

 

[Tayski]

This is not true at all. The golden age of Muay Thai had the best fighters in the 90's and they didn't train lots of strength. Strength is required in MMA that's why they train it. You don't need much strength for kick boxing or Muay Thai.

You're talking about Muay Thai with guys who are generally between 50 and 65 kilos. It's a different world where they focus a shit lots on cardio and not on pure strength, and even less so in the 90's.

The thread and my post are about Kickboxing. Look at the strength and conditioning training of HW Kickboxers like Le Banner, Andy Hug, Tyrone Spong, Alistair Overeem, Sam Greco, etc.

 

[rmongler]

Between beginners, skills beat everything.

Between masters, conditioning beats everything.

 

[selfcritical]

Grappling requires more strength than striking.

That's it. Human beings produce more resistance than 16oz gloves, so your ability to overcome resistance is more important. This scales with weight class.

 

[Universal Kombat]

That's it. Human beings produce more resistance than 16oz gloves, so your ability to overcome resistance is more important. This scales with weight class.

I have the exact same spats that are in your AV

 

[Universal Kombat]

Is it because the wrestling? Why not spend more time sparring or drilling

Well as a guy who's competed in MMA, strength matters quite a bit. Sure improving on you skill set and drilling are a must. But have you ever grappled with a guy much bigger and stronger than you? He can make up for lack of technique with strength. I'm primarily a striker but I've been grappling for a few years now. When I grapple with people much smaller than me, or much weaker than me, it allows me to hold them down and move them around rather easily, for someone like me who likes to use GNP instead of submissions, it works perfectly fine.

I've also been on the other end of the stick, there was this one guy who was much bigger and stronger than I, and though he didn't have half my experience, once he was on top of me, and holding me down with what little correct knowledge he knew, it was near impossible to get him off me, I had to continue to try to get out while waiting until he tired.

Strength is important for grappling and even guys like Eddie Bravo who don't do MMA but grapple, do strength training. I grappled with Eddie Bravo and I could swear it was like an alpha male full grown Chimpanzee tying me into a knot, sure his technique accounted for a lot, but I could also tell he is extremely strong and in person they look a lot bigger and muscular than in tiny youtube videos.

to sum it up, grappling is a lot of strength, you're doing pulling movement and using pulling muscles for the most part.

 

[Universal Kombat]

Between beginners, skills beat everything.

Between masters, conditioning beats everything.

Kinda have to agree. But you can easily substitute conditioning for speed, timing, strength, etc
Reason why I have to ultimately agree though, because whoever gets tired first loses all his speed, timing, strength, etc

Why some fighters like the Diaz bros, despite lacking speed and strength and timing, can and DO drag their opponents into deep waters and finish the "better" fighters there.

 

[selfcritical]

As to why not spend more time drilling- some do! However, using only sport-specific means of conditioning has several potential drawbacks

1) Drilling is requires a great deal of skill to control the intensity of, which means that it's difficult to progressively overload, difficult to measure volume in a meaningful way, or arrange periodization. You can monitor number of rounds, and use something like and RPE scale (don't go about a 7 on effort this session, etc), but this is all a lot more fuzzy than knowing a 1RM and programming around linear periodization using percents

2) Using combat sport drilling as the primary method of strength and conditioning dramatically increases the risk of injury and burnout/mental staleness. In grappling, bodies are colliding, and can do so in unexpected ways. Collision raises the chance of injury, and doing the same thing that you're doing in your primary skill training all the time can lead the athlete to be more indifferent to training from simple boredom and lack of variation(Dirty Holt, who is a world -level wrestler, has talked about this in several threads). Basic strength training tends to actually be protective against injury and breaks up the monotony of training.

3) Using sport drills just takes longer to increase limit strength than compound lifts. In a sport with an off season, it makes sense to both increase variability and target specific attributes with laser like focus.

 

[poepstorm]

To be honest, plenty of my favorite fighters (Diaz bros, Joe Lauzon, BJ Penn, Anderson Silva) don't do much lifting. For the people claiming that grappling requires more strength, explain Demian Maia. GSP even claimed that his weight training was only for vanity reasons - he believed only skill and some stamina mattered in the ring.

Because of weightclasses, I think training skills and sparring is much more important than strength. Bulking up is just going to get you into a tougher weight class. Both in striking and grappling, I've never experienced physically strong opponents as something scarier than skilled opponents.

 

[a guy]

To be honest, plenty of my favorite fighters (Diaz bros, Joe Lauzon, BJ Penn, Anderson Silva) don't do much lifting. For the people claiming that grappling requires more strength, explain Demian Maia. GSP even claimed that his weight training was only for vanity reasons - he believed only skill and some stamina mattered in the ring.

Because of weightclasses, I think training skills and sparring is much more important than strength. Bulking up is just going to get you into a tougher weight class. Both in striking and grappling, I've never experienced physically strong opponents as something scarier than skilled opponents.

Three things:

1) strength training does not equal bulking up

2) grappling is in part strength training on its own. The opponent will provide enough resistance that you get strong overcoming it, which makes it possible to succeed without lifting. However, with a properly programmed S+C routine, you'll be stronger than you would be otherwise and not miss out on too much training time. Periodization is key.

3) I can guarantee that both Maia and GSP are inhumanly strong. Strength is a major advantage in grappling, especially when applied with the technique of Maia or GSP.

 

[rmongler]

People less experienced or less skilled in grappling often mistake the feeling of getting completely dominated as simply differences in physicality.

Its an understandable reaction, when you feel powerless or helpless against someone; it is also a convenient salve for the ego ('he's not really better than me, just stronger').

Call it the 'invisible grappling' if you will, ability at the dynamic and nuanced art of giving the presh is one of the surest watermarks of essential grappling aptitude. The game is full of athletic and fit people, but all the best guys in the world, your Lepri's, your Roger's, your Cobrinha's, your Mendes'; all have insane pressure at a level beyond any those can dream of.

 

[j123]

To be honest, plenty of my favorite fighters (Diaz bros, Joe Lauzon, BJ Penn, Anderson Silva) don't do much lifting. For the people claiming that grappling requires more strength, explain Demian Maia. GSP even claimed that his weight training was only for vanity reasons - he believed only skill and some stamina mattered in the ring.

Because of weightclasses, I think training skills and sparring is much more important than strength. Bulking up is just going to get you into a tougher weight class. Both in striking and grappling, I've never experienced physically strong opponents as something scarier than skilled opponents.

GSP strength trains quite a bit, and just because he says its for aesthetic reasons, doesn't mean he's not reaping the rewards from it.

Its like if you make 50k a year, then after building a career, you make it big getting a 500k/yr job; Then with the increased income you buy a Benz, R8, a 3000sq ft home, etc. Now..If you say you got the job because you're passionate about it, thats fine, but if you say the extra income didn't help you buy those nice things at all, then you're full of crap.

 

[CFGroup]

To compensate for sloppy standup technique. Look at the newer KO TMA based MMA fighters. They are substituting training like running backs for great body mechanics timing and footwork.

Re watch McGregor vs Alverez. Someone posted a 5 min clip of Averez training all this crossfit weight lifting nonsense and he got tooled, while another posted Conor trying to jump up on some rail and finally climbing over it, LOL!

We know how that one ended, Haha!

 

[Chungungo]

To compensate for sloppy standup technique. Look at the newer KO TMA based MMA fighters. They are substituting training like running backs for great body mechanics timing and footwork.

Re watch McGregor vs Alverez. Someone posted a 5 min clip of Averez training all this crossfit weight lifting nonsense and he got tooled, while another posted Conor trying to jump up on some rail and finally climbing over it, LOL!

We know how that one ended, Haha!

That is so common here and many people will copy it, I mean the bad example.