Why do Freddie Roach and Joel Diaz think Lomachenko is nothing special and boring?

[Seano]

The most competitive fight was with dirty cheating overweight Orlando salido, but loma was actually coming back at the end, id love to see him in there with another hardnosed pressure fighter like salido and see how he does, he will probabaly have to throw more power to keep them at bay.

Personally, I think Arum has been pretty careful with the guy since that Salido fight.

 

[lolasif]

I don't think either Roach or Diaz were particularly critical of Lomachenko.

Roach isn't a fan of the showboating, Diaz prefers exciting fights that have tension.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

He's "boring" to some because he's fighting guys with no shot. Its not fun to watch a fight with 0 chance of upset. Not one guy he's fought has looked that good coming into a fight with Lomachenko.

So do you feel he would lose to GArcia, if so is he were to lose convincingly would he be the modern day naseem hamed?

 

[makedansure]

The disrespect...

Because his training and skill set is outside the box and new.

The old generations are jealous and always shit on the newer generations. Same goes for all other sports and everything else, like music.

That's sometimes true, but if you think Freddie is jealous of a supposed all time great fighting another p4p on espn? You obviously don't realize that boxing in terms of technical skill has regressed in terms of big picture. All of this hi-tech training and he can't actually finish his opponents. He should have KO'd both rigo and walters - what good does all the fancy footwork do if you can't finish? loma is very good at frustrating his opponents into quitting.

Freddy wouldn't be able to teach half of what Lomachenko does. I think it's just a dislike of something you don't understand or comprehend. I'd like to hear what he has to say now after Loma just toyed with Rigondeaux.

Loma is supremely gifted athletically, but it's not like what he does is beyond comprehension. He works ridiculously hard at what he does, but loma has not shown anything that is boxing genius in my opinion. He is a ridiculously coordinated freak that toys with opponents.

 

[aries]

Loma is supremely gifted athletically, but it's not like what he does is beyond comprehension. He works ridiculously hard at what he does, but loma has not shown anything that is boxing genius in my opinion. He is a ridiculously coordinated freak that toys with opponents.

I don't see Freddie teaching his fighters reaction drills or having them do Ukrainian folk dancing. Freddie is a good offensive coach but a lot of his fighters are lacking defensively.

 

[makedansure]

I don't see Freddie teaching his fighters reaction drills or having them do Ukrainian folk dancing. Freddie is a good offensive coach but a lot of his fighters are lacking defensively.

reaction drills, dancing... these things are great for all sports that require quick reaction and footwork. Lomachenko is a supremely gifted athlete that had a wonderful development program. He has so much control of his body and that is great, but freddie roach doesn't coach athleticism. He takes whatever you have (or used to have), attempting to take your existing skillset and matching it with a gameplan. In a perfect world, every boxer should be taking dancing lessons (or at least working on footwork and not fmj padwork) and doing reaction drills, definitely next level stuff but in terms of his boxing skillset, lomachenko is not boxing at a genius level. He outclasses opponents athletically and clowns them into submission. However I am a loma fan and will continue to be a fan. His interview where he confirms that the rigo win is not a big one confirms my belief that he knows that his mission to have his name become synonymous with boxing is not complete.

just crazy how so many people see him and are amazed, proclaiming he's the best that they've ever seen when they haven't seen much, people who've apparently not watched enough boxing to see that Loma does have elite potential but that what's been shown is just an extremely disciplined, gifted, athletic individual that has dominated opposition with those talents and not high level boxing. I'm not writing off the possibility that at the end of it all he might be considered an ATG, but that status is thrown around much too easily.

 

[rb3b3]

reaction drills, dancing... these things are great for all sports that require quick reaction and footwork. Lomachenko is a supremely gifted athlete that had a wonderful development program. He has so much control of his body and that is great, but freddie roach doesn't coach athleticism. He takes whatever you have (or used to have), attempting to take your existing skillset and matching it with a gameplan. In a perfect world, every boxer should be taking dancing lessons (or at least working on footwork and not fmj padwork) and doing reaction drills, definitely next level stuff but in terms of his boxing skillset, lomachenko is not boxing at a genius level. He outclasses opponents athletically and clowns them into submission. However I am a loma fan and will continue to be a fan. His interview where he confirms that the rigo win is not a big one confirms my belief that he knows that his mission to have his name become synonymous with boxing is not complete.

just crazy how so many people see him and are amazed, proclaiming he's the best that they've ever seen when they haven't seen much, people who've apparently not watched enough boxing to see that Loma does have elite potential but that what's been shown is just an extremely disciplined, gifted, athletic individual that has dominated opposition with those talents and not high level boxing. I'm not writing off the possibility that at the end of it all he might be considered an ATG, but that status is thrown around much too easily.

GREAT post! 100% correct!

 

[JayE]

reaction drills, dancing... these things are great for all sports that require quick reaction and footwork. Lomachenko is a supremely gifted athlete that had a wonderful development program. He has so much control of his body and that is great, but freddie roach doesn't coach athleticism. He takes whatever you have (or used to have), attempting to take your existing skillset and matching it with a gameplan. In a perfect world, every boxer should be taking dancing lessons (or at least working on footwork and not fmj padwork) and doing reaction drills, definitely next level stuff but in terms of his boxing skillset, lomachenko is not boxing at a genius level. He outclasses opponents athletically and clowns them into submission. However I am a loma fan and will continue to be a fan. His interview where he confirms that the rigo win is not a big one confirms my belief that he knows that his mission to have his name become synonymous with boxing is not complete.

just crazy how so many people see him and are amazed, proclaiming he's the best that they've ever seen when they haven't seen much, people who've apparently not watched enough boxing to see that Loma does have elite potential but that what's been shown is just an extremely disciplined, gifted, athletic individual that has dominated opposition with those talents and not high level boxing. I'm not writing off the possibility that at the end of it all he might be considered an ATG, but that status is thrown around much too easily.

Lomachenko is as talented as anyone from this, for lack of a better term, post Mayweather/Pac generation (and will perhaps be known as the best fighter from this new era if he can get the right fights over the next 5-10 years), so all the attention he is getting is warranted and ultimately a good thing. A certain amount of that attention is kind of insufferable (for example, the ones who learned about him through Joe Rogan and go on about him completely reinventing boxing and already being the best of all time), but that's a fairly common reaction to athlete with special ability who is new on the scene (especially in this generation), and it's certainly better than him not getting any attention, at all.

 

[makedansure]

Lomachenko is as talented as anyone from this, for lack of a better term, post Mayweather/Pac generation (and will perhaps be known as the best fighter from this new era if he can get the right fights over the next 5-10 years), so all the attention he is getting is warranted and ultimately a good thing. A certain amount of that attention is kind of insufferable (for example, the ones who learned about him through Joe Rogan and go on about him completely reinventing boxing and already being the best of all time), but that's a fairly common reaction to athlete with special ability who is new on the scene (especially in this generation), and it's certainly better than him not getting any attention, at all.

I agree with you, and I wish Rogan would educate himself a bit better but entertainers will be entertainers so no real complaints there.

Without any regrets, I roped in a bunch of friends that don't really care much for the sport to watch the fight, and while they were somewhat impressed with Loma, they completely shat on Rigo and honestly thought he was the biggest bum out there. Also, they generally said the match was a shitshow and precisely the reason why they are not interested in the sport. If loma had finished rigo (no easy task because of the holding, and rigo's still far from being a punching bag) I would have been extremely impressed and so would have most casuals. It takes two to tango. Rigo quit, but nothing really tells me that he would have gotten knocked out by loma. At best, loma could have stopped the fight in something "controversial" where the ref jumps in because rigo isn't doing much offensively and taking shots repeatedly.

In my opinion, though Loma has refused to go with other trainers (i.e. roach) he needs to bring in a professional fight trainer. Not saying that his father couldn't do it, but they come from an amateur (the highest level of amateur) background and they need someone to help translate it to the pro ranks and make him a finisher.

 

[JayE]

I agree with you, and I wish Rogan would educate himself a bit better but entertainers will be entertainers so no real complaints there.

Without any regrets, I roped in a bunch of friends that don't really care much for the sport to watch the fight, and while they were somewhat impressed with Loma, they completely shat on Rigo and honestly thought he was the biggest bum out there. Also, they generally said the match was a shitshow and precisely the reason why they are not interested in the sport. If loma had finished rigo (no easy task because of the holding, and rigo's still far from being a punching bag) I would have been extremely impressed and so would have most casuals. It takes two to tango. Rigo quit, but nothing really tells me that he would have gotten knocked out by loma. At best, loma could have stopped the fight in something "controversial" where the ref jumps in because rigo isn't doing much offensively and taking shots repeatedly.

In my opinion, though Loma has refused to go with other trainers (i.e. roach) he needs to bring in a professional fight trainer. Not saying that his father couldn't do it, but they come from an amateur (the highest level of amateur) background and they need someone to help translate it to the pro ranks and make him a finisher.

A 37 year-old SBW (who was already consistently outsized at SBW) moving up two weight classes whose last top win was almost five years ago was never going to be the opponent to really raise Lomachenko's profile by a considerable amount. Lomachenko himself has acknowledged this, and I think it's pretty clear that he realizes he is more or less going to have to move up to really raise his profile.

I don't think he needs to change much of anything with his training situation, though. He did show plenty of flaws and a lack of understanding of the professional game when he fought Salido. This, of course, is entirely understandable considering it was only his second pro fight against a dirty pressure fighter who could fight on the inside (for as much as Salido did foul, and he did foul a ton, Lomachenko likely deserved deductions for the constant holding and pushing that he employed because he couldn't deal with Salido on the inside). What is pretty encouraging about Lomachenko is that he clearly confronted the limitations he showed against Salido since that fight, and he's rather drastically advanced as a fighter since then which suggests to me that his father has done a very good job getting him acclimated to the professional ranks. Even though he lost his 0 against Salido, realizing that he really did have to adapt that early in his pro career may turn out to be a positive in the long run, and his ability to actually address his limitations suggests to me that his father is a very good trainer (and it's not like Loma Sr.'s other fighters haven't had real professional success, either).

 

[Hagler]

Even though he lost his 0 against Salido, realizing that he really did have to adapt that early in his pro career may turn out to be a positive in the long run, and his ability to actually address his limitations suggests to me that his father is a very good trainer (and it's not like Loma Sr.'s other fighters haven't had real professional success, either).

Agreed. We saw against Rigondeaux that Loma will not get grabbed and fouled into losing his focus (and a JD) anymore. That being said, Rigo is a small guy. I wonder how Loma would deal with a big lightweight that could wrestle him around.

 

[moosaev]

Its amazing how many of you are saying these old trainers are jealous. They've seen extremely talented fighters outside of their gym before, its dismissive to suggest that THE ONLY reason someone would criticize Loma is because of jealousy.

As others have said, Loma's slappy punching isn't attractive to old school boxing guys. His movement is unparalleled, I don't think Roach or Diaz would deny that. But boxing is more than movement, you have to carry a punch and have the killer instinct.

 

[DeJulez]

Because his training and skill set is outside the box and new.

The old generations are jealous and always shit on the newer generations. Same goes for all other sports and everything else, like music.

Generally they are correct. You think music today is something to behold?
It's awful.

 

[DeJulez]

Yea they're jealous of a guy who lost to Salido.

Salido by the way is damn good and a fun boxer to watch but I mean, if your some Godly fighter thats skills have supposedly never been seen before with 400 amateur boxing matches...you should be able to beat Orlando Salido.

 

[DeJulez]

By the way. This will never be Lomas era
This is Canelo and Errols era, you fuckin cocksuckers

 

[baconCrunch]

the title is a misinterpretation of what roach and diaz realy think
roach & diaz didn't knock lomachenko's boxing ability
roach, for some reason, eddie fudge influence or whatever, prefers the old school sportsman way of conducting yourself in the ring
but c'mon, showboating is fun to watch

& part of it overcritical jealousy..

but as tim bradley pointed out during the commentary, rigo ducking so low and holding/fouling all night made for a difficult opponent to hit clean. i liked lomachenko's response to that, contrary to what freddie thinks.

 

[hangulmalmotayo]

the title is a misinterpretation of what roach and diaz realy think
roach & diaz didn't knock lomachenko's boxing ability
roach, for some reason, eddie fudge influence or whatever, prefers the old school sportsman way of conducting yourself in the ring
but c'mon, showboating is fun to watch

& part of it overcritical jealousy..

but as tim bradley pointed out during the commentary, rigo ducking so low and holding/fouling all night made for a difficult opponent to hit clean. i liked lomachenko's response to that, contrary to what freddie thinks.

We’re Freddie Roach’s comments on the Rigo fight? I thought he was talking about the Marriaga fight.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Freddy wouldn't be able to teach half of what Lomachenko does. I think it's just a dislike of something you don't understand or comprehend. I'd like to hear what he has to say now after Loma just toyed with Rigondeaux.

So would I. Maybe it's on YouTube. I also remember saying that he couldn't toy with Rigo even if he wanted to. Got the rest right though.

 

[baconCrunch]

We’re Freddie Roach’s comments on the Rigo fight? I thought he was talking about the Marriaga fight.

roach's comments were on marriaga's fight
apparently, he quit being a fan after that

nonetheless, before the loma X rigo fight, he predicted

“It’s a good fight style-wise,” Roach said.

“Lomachenko is a bit bigger but Rigondeaux is one of the best defensive fighters I’ve ever seen and [Lomachenko] is one of the best offensive fighters I’ve ever seen.

“You can’t play with [Rigondeaux] though!

“I do like Rigondeaux in that fight. I’d pick him to win.”

 

[baconCrunch]

after loma played with rigo

i wonder what freddie thinks now