Why can you train BJJ later in life, but not wrestling?

brendan raedy said:
Yes. I wrestled Division 1 at the University of Virginia.
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And a 1st degree black belt in BJJ who was a purple belt gold medalist at the BJJ World Championships and a brown belt bronze medalist at the BJJ world championships.
 
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It cracks me up how this thread has became a full blown argument.
 
I watched a couple 170 pound state college wrestlers training for like 15 minutes the other day when I was visiting a fitness center on a business trip.

They were going hard at one another, on standard wrestling mats. When they got a take down, they would get the off balance and then release it unless it put the other guy on his butt gently.

It was the exact same intensity I have always used when Thai clinch sparring. The pummeling is rough, the strikes are controlled and the take downs are entered rough and finished gently or not at all.

It was this style of training that conveyed to me the ability to defend full powered take downs in mma sparring, which is good self defense.

If this were how wrestling were ordinarily trained, I think plenty of older (for a fighter) people could train it.

It is the cavalier attitude of teachers and the callousness of young competitors building strong finishes that makes the activity difficult to get into.
 
SummerStriker said:
I watched a couple 170 pound state college wrestlers training for like 15 minutes the other day when I was visiting a fitness center on a business trip.

They were going hard at one another, on standard wrestling mats. When they got a take down, they would get the off balance and then release it unless it put the other guy on his butt gently.

It was the exact same intensity I have always used when Thai clinch sparring. The pummeling is rough, the strikes are controlled and the take downs are entered rough and finished gently or not at all.

It was this style of training that conveyed to me the ability to defend full powered take downs in mma sparring, which is good self defense.

If this were how wrestling were ordinarily trained, I think plenty of older (for a fighter) people could train it.

It is the cavalier attitude of teachers and the callousness of young competitors building strong finishes that makes the activity difficult to get into.
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They were light drilling. That comprises maybe 15-20 minutes of a real practice. When you get into hard drilling, situational goes, and live goes, it isnt the same ballgame.

Light drilling is used to get warmed up. What you talk about of this "cavalier attitude" is necessary to train yourself to get tough scores on tough guys. It is the only way to get proficient at doing this.
 
Dirty Holt said:
They were light drilling. That comprises maybe 15-20 minutes of a real practice. When you get into hard drilling, situational goes, and live goes, it isnt the same ballgame.

Light drilling is used to get warmed up. What you talk about of this "cavalier attitude" is necessary to train yourself to get tough scores on tough guys. It is the only way to get proficient at doing this.
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Sure.

But what are older people looking for? I personally never cared about hitting a takedown sparring, let alone against a grappler in a grappling competition. All I ever wanted was to be able to hold my posture in the clinch and block takedowns because it made me feel like my self defense skills were better. I got to the point where I can go 100% with strangers in mma schools and block almost every shot, and those I don't block I almost always land in guard or half guard. It is enough skill that I don't have to back up from or run from people, even if they don't fear me taking them down with a shot.

Taking myself as an example, the classic weekend warrior, if I can handle amateur fighters I'm far more capable of self defense than I probably need to be.

In boxing, maybe like 10% of people care about taking a fight. Excluding the fitness only people totally from this, like 90% just want to learn how to handle themselves in self defense. Drilling, light sparring, some hard rounds of body only sparring, and maybe one or two hard spars ever are enough for that - to protect your head, keep your posture, and hide behind a jab - and for your knock out strikes to be much more dangerous. Paired with fitness training, it isn't professional fighting, but it does move you way up the curve in terms of who you can handle yourself around.

I don't see why wrestling couldn't be the same thing.

Edit: besides that, I bet there are a lot of people who used to love wrestling that feel like they can't take the falls anymore. If the culture opened to hobbyist and self defense types, I think it would broaden its appeal, make money, make people happy, help people be safe, improve their other martial arts.... just all kinds of benefits.
 
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This.

brendan raedy said:
Competitive jiu jitsu relies tremendously on physical attributes, just as much if not more so than wrestling.

When technical levels even out, athletes will rely on strength, conditioning, and physical attributes to make up the difference.

That said, grappling on the feet (Judo, Wrestling, etc) often comes with less control than on the mat (say holding someone in your closed guard) so strength and conditioning can often come into play sooner and more often due to quicker and more frequent movement.
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Wrestling is hard. People don't like hard things. There isn't a market for it.
 
age is a huge factor. not many people can handle the rigors of wrestling at a young age, so doing it later in life is so much more harder. i havent found any recreational wrestling clubs that dont require you to train 3-4 hours a day, 5 days a week. most people in their 20's on up have family, school and job commitments that take up a lot of time.
 
I'm in my 40s. The morning after BJJ class my back and knee may be a little stiff, and I may even be limping around a little, but overall I feel OK. Every few months at my old school we would do nothing but wrestle for 90 minutes. It was incredible fun, but the next morning I feel like I've been shot out of a cannon.
 
lol at this thread.




Wrestling >BJJ
 
brendan raedy said:
Understanding requires an open mind.

Could you please expand upon your own thoughts on the matter rather than simply insulting me?
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I really can't. I don't even know how to begin since you seemed to have made up your mind about it already.

Wrestling practice = bjj practice said no wrestler ever. Except for you.
 
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