Why aren't knife hands (chops) used more in pro competitions like UFC?

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by AlphaStryke, Jan 6, 2017.

  1. AlphaStryke White Belt

    AlphaStryke
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    Yes this is a beginner type question that has likely been asked here a million times. I am still curious though.

    Why aren't Knife Hands, Shoto Garais, Karate Chops, etc used more in events such as UFC, Bellator, etc?
    Yes the classic overhand chop is slow and telegraphed as heck, but there are other ways of doing it, like side chops to the neck, or even using forearms.

    Now instead of just saying it's bullshido TMA crap, keep in mind that's what people thought about things such as Jujutsu/Judo/Jiujitsu, Muay Thai to some extent, Boxing, Karate, Chinese MAs etc. And yet people made each of those work.

    Machida made Karate work for instance. He actually used the 'Crane Kick' effectively; no one would ever have believed it could work before he did it! Andy Silva used a simple front push kick to knock out an opponent.

    Cung Lee used Sanshou/Sanda to great effect, as well as eastern MA side kicks to make opponents keep their distance.

    So just because it's never been done it doesn't mean it can't work; ofcourse it could be true chops are utterly useless in MMA. But if so, why? Is it the gloves?

    Honestly the MMA game has evolved to an extent that one key to win for some is unpredictability; since no one would expect a classic chop from the edge of the hand it could be used to take someone off guard, maybe even knock them out if used from a position where your opponent would think a punch or elbow is not possible (to the side of the neck maybe)
     
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  2. ARIZE Yellow Belt

    ARIZE
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    Aren't strikes to the throat and the neck illegal?
     
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  3. Higus Silver Belt

    Higus
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    http://www.ufc.com/discover/sport/rules-and-regulations

    Kinda vague if a knife hand strike to the side neck would be illegal or not.
    As for why you don't see it, I can't imagine it being very effective against a trained opponent who's fighting back. TS should try to use it in a spar and report back.
     
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  4. Bekim Blue Belt

    Bekim
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    TS is waiting for you in his mum's garden.........
     
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  5. DoctorTaco Breadhead

    DoctorTaco
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    Because you'll break your fuckin hand on the top of your opponents head.
     
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  6. feelinCrisp White Belt

    feelinCrisp
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    What that guy said, but also, I would think, because if you're trying to karate chop someone the direction in which you can direct your limb is very limited, where as with punches you have all the same directions, plus some.
     
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  7. AndyMaBobs Green Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    They kind of exist in the form of hammerfists, the idea is the same but with far less chance of catching and hurting your fingers.
     
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  8. Reyesnuthugr belt

    Reyesnuthugr
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    I also think that with those MMA gloves on, they're pretty bulky from the side so it kinda defeats the point (edge) of a knifehand and it just becomes a crappy non-dense hammerfist
     
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  9. fluffball Brown Belt

    fluffball
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    The top of the head isn't the target for a knife hand. Generally you aim for the philtrum, throat/carotid sinus, and inside of the arm.

    Philtrum is replaced by a safer hammerfist and used all the time.

    Throat is illegal.

    Inside of the arm is just a hard block. You do see guys use that, the knife hand part is not important.
     
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  10. spacetime Purple Belt

    spacetime
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    I think you misunderstood his post. He meant that you will most likely miss the intended target and instead break the hand, because of the opponents constant head movement . I think, or else his post makes no sense.

    I don't know how the UFC gloves look exactly, but a knife hand struck at 100% to the throat might very well kill the individual and nobody want's that. But it's an interesting question.
     
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  11. DoctorTaco Breadhead

    DoctorTaco
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    targets move, is the problem. Guys break there thumbs from bad overhand form when they land upside someone's head instead of their face/jaw, for example.
     
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  12. a guy Black Belt

    a guy
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    All the techniques people thought wouldn't work had a history of working in some sort of contact competition. Show me someone using the ones you're talking about then we can talk about their practicality in MMA.
     
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  13. fluffball Brown Belt

    fluffball
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    Ok I did misunderstand because I've seen McDojo's advocate knife hands to the top of the head (which is a stupid location for another reason, you can't jar the brain by striking directly downward into the spine unless you outweigh the guy by like 200 pounds.)
     
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  14. spacetime Purple Belt

    spacetime
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    It is worth noting that in Gene Lebells famous Judo vs Boxing fight, Lebell was prohibited from open hand strikes, although he was by no means a Karateka. but he did do some crosstraining in it.

    I wonder though in UFC 1 when they were bare knuckled if there were any prohibations against it.
     
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  15. fluffball Brown Belt

    fluffball
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    They weren't, only no biting and no eye gouging. There is a pretty famous video clip of a dude getting ground & pounded by taking like 40 shots to the balls.

    It's worth watching the early UFCs if you haven't seen them and are bored and drunk. They're really easy to find free online.
     
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  16. DrunkMonkMeth Green Belt

    DrunkMonkMeth
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    i could be completely wrong but arent palm strike illegal? that would in a sense include chops.
     
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  17. Jimmy H Purple Belt

    Jimmy H
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    one time this kung fu guy said he could break my collar bone with a chop.
     
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  18. j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

    j123
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    Joe Son

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. DoctorTaco Breadhead

    DoctorTaco
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    they are legal. You'll
    See them on the ground occasionally. The Diaz brothers have perfected a hooking palm strike while at boxing range
     
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  20. DoctorTaco Breadhead

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    tbf he probably could assuming you hold real still and don't tense up
     
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