Why aren't boxers adopting Conors jab out-guard?

[spacetime]

There must be a drawback to it, but I don't see what? If the opponent tries to break the gap, he runs the risk of getting jabbed or counted with a cross. If on the other the hands are tucked in and around the face, as classicaly taught, it's much easier to for the opponent to charge in either on the body or the face, with good footwork.

Whenever I use conors guard in boxing sparring, the opponent gets confused and often countered more often.

 

[aerius]

 

[j123]

Boxers fought in long johns back the day?

 

[spacetime]

That's NOT Conors fighting guard.

 

[Gregolian]

Isn't that shit against the rules? The pawing/lead hand out really far I thought you're not supposed to do in boxing?

 

[spacetime]

Isn't that shit against the rules?

No...

 

[Sano]

The long guard is not something new. It's used a lot, especially in MT. It has a few additional advantages there, including using the lead to pull down the opponents glove and then come over the top with an elbow on the same hand.

The way Conor uses it, you have to have a few attributes over your opponent. Longer reach, faster in and out footwork, good accuracy, all these things help. It's excellent for hand traps though and as a southpaw it's even better because you can trap or pull down their lead hand while taking an angle and then come with your left cross.

It does have a few weaknesses as well, and it depends on the fighter, their attributes and style.

 

[spacetime]

The long guard is not something new. It's used a lot, especially in MT. It has a few additional advantages there, including using the lead to pull down the opponents glove and then come over the top with an elbow on the same hand.

The way Conor uses it, you have to have a few attributes over your opponent. Longer reach, faster in and out footwork, good accuracy, all these things help. It's excellent for hand traps though and as a southpaw it's even better because you can trap or pull down their lead hand while taking an angle and then come with your left cross.

It does have a few weaknesses as well, and it depends on the fighter, their attributes and style.

But most world class pros do have long reaches, yet I don't see them using it. It has the advantage of being able to protect and defend at the same time because you can just jab away.... Now pros do exactly that.. BUT they don't stick to that particular guard throughout the match.

 

[spacetime]

If I just simply pull forward my jab, given that I'm reachy. What are you going to do about it? It's right in your face.

 

[Sano]

But most world class pros do have long reaches, yet I don't see them using it. It has the advantage of being able to protect and defend at the same time because you can just jab away.... Now pros do exactly that.. BUT they don't stick to that particular guard.

Reach relative to your opponent. You see Conor do it, you see Jones do it, you see Klitschko do it in boxing. What do they have in common? They are all tall fighters with a long reach, relative to their opponents and they all are good at moving backwards and have a good sense of range. Distance is the greatest way to defend yourself using that guard because you will be open to some shots that you are not in other guards, also the long guard is used mostly as a range finder. It's simply less effective if you don't have reach and heigh on your opponent, not that it can't be used. You jab them in the face sure, but with a long guard it will hardly have the same pop that a jab from a normal range would and therefor you don't get their respect as much with it.

There's not many advantages to the long guard, the biggest one is keeping distance between yourself and your opponent, which can be dangerous if they trap your lead instead and then move in. The guard is vulnerable on the inside. You saw it in Floyd vs Conor as well, it was a battle of hand trapping.

 

[Sano]

If I just simply pull forward my jab, given that I'm reachy. What are you going to do about it? It's right in your face.

Pull your lead hand down and come over the top with an overhand.
Use my rear hand to parry it and use my own jab.
Push it to the side and take the outside angle.

If you can move back well and counter well AND have more reach than me, then it's hard to deal with.

 

[spacetime]

Pull your lead hand down and come over the top with an overhand.
Use my rear hand to parry it and use my own jab.
Push it to the side and take the outside angle.

If you can move back well and counter well AND have more reach than me, then it's hard to deal with.

This brings me to another point. I have guy in sparring who has a slightly longer reach and has the exact same guard back, jab out, and he wins that battle because his arm is longer. I get what your saying about pulling my lead hand down, but I could work into my system to reflexively punch back whenever you grab it, so you better mix it up. Or be incredibly fast.

 

[spacetime]

What's even crazier is that this guard normally used by kickboxers or face punching TKD guys (at least in my club), makes more sense in Boxing than Kickboxing, because you can in theory expose my less covered chest area with some kicks thrown there. You can't do that in boxing without stepping in more, because arms are shorter than legs.

 

[Sano]

This brings me to another point. I have guy in sparring who has a slightly longer reach and has the exact same guard back, jab out, and he wins that battle because his arm is longer. I get what your saying about pulling my lead hand down, but I could work into my system to reflexsively punch back whenever you grab it, so you better mix it up. Or be incredibly fast.

Sure. If you get predictable with it, you'll get caught, but that's the same for all styles and techniques. I like using it myself on shorter guys, but when you use it against someone who might be short but is incredibly fast and powerful, you soon start pulling it back when they cover the distance and blast you in the face with hooks. Pros and cons.

What's even crazier is that this guard normally used by kickboxers or face punching TKD guys (at least in my club), makes more sense in Boxing than Kickboxing, because you can in theory expose my less covered chest area with some kicks thrown there. You can't do that in boxing without stepping in more, because arms are shorter than legs.

Not exactly. The reason it makes sense in kickboxing is because leads into kicking a little more too. If you like having guys at the end of your punching range, they will also be in range for kicks. The guard can help with that. In MT it's even better because you can elbow off of it as we talked about and you can clinch up when they try to close in which it also helps with. Helps with pulling people into knees as well.

 

[spacetime]

I know this sounds retarded but could it have something to do with simply getting tired in your arm by holding it out as a permanent guard?

 

[a guy]

Pull your lead hand down and come over the top with an overhand.
Use my rear hand to parry it and use my own jab.
Push it to the side and take the outside angle.

If you can move back well and counter well AND have more reach than me, then it's hard to deal with.

Don't forget the simplest one of all: crack his ribs while his elbow's away from his body,

 

[spacetime]

Don't forget the simplest one of all: crack his ribs while his elbow's away from his body,

You need to step in to do that. I will jab the fuck out of you

 

[spacetime]

Btw, I was surprised that Floyds father thought body shots would be lethal to an MMA-fighter... And a guy with training clips posted of his assistants punching his stomach. Time to switch on Youtube, Floyd Mayweather senior?

 

[a guy]

You need to step in to do that. I will jab the fuck out of you

That's why nobody attacks the body without head movement and footwork--I'll probably jab the fuck out of you on my way in, before rearranging your internal organs.

 

[spacetime]

That's why nobody attacks the body without head movement and footwork--I'll probably jab the fuck out of you on my way in, before rearranging your internal organs.

Alright so you think it's because of the exposed ribs. Interesting.. Kickboxers don't go for bodyshots as much as boxers so you might have a point.