Why are we so soft on employers who hire illegals?

LogicalInsanity said:
Good question...and under gwb we did.

Which was unfortunate imo.

When i was in college, I worked in a cafeteria on campus. Our very best janitorial staff were all illegals. As soon as new restrictions/penalties were put in place , we had to cut them loose.


They were not lazy, rapists etc...

Most of the illegals we hired came to the states to support their families....

Granted, they did send all their money back to.mexico....but they were without question some of the coolest people I've met
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Fuck em.
 
panamaican said:
Illegals don't have to find jobs. They can create their own work. People who willingly sneak across a border to find a better living while knowing that they are breaking the law to do it are not going to sit around and wait to get hired. They find and create their own work selling services directly to others.
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At best a wall will stop a percentage of new border crosses; it does nothing about those who have already crossed or cross by any other means.

Imagine the tools government could create to assess the legality of potential workers for even 5% of the walls cost.
$1 billion buys alot of reg tech.
 
Denter said:
You stop illegal entry by making it impossible for illegals to work here, not by building a wall.
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Except that you can't make it impossible for illegals to work here so long as you have an economy where people will directly trade services for compensation. Because someone who wants to make money is going to go out and try and make money, they're not going to wait for an interview call back. They'll sell shit from their apartment, they'll buy a used vehicle and go door to door in poor neighborhoods.

The goal is to make money, not to land a job. That doesn't mean you ignore the businesses that hire illegals but we shouldn't be so narrow in our thoughts as to only think about job holding illegals.

And I've never mentioned a wall in this thread.
 
HIMBOB said:
At best a wall will stop a percentage of new border crosses; it does nothing about those who have already crossed or cross by any other means.

Imagine the tools government could create to assess the legality of potential workers for even 5% of the walls cost.
$1 billion buys alot of reg tech.
Click to expand...

I don't know why I'm reading so many wall comments when I've never mentioned one. There are plenty of ways to regulate your borders, including but not exclusively walls.

Now you can certainly assess the legality of potential workers and crack down on them. But it's just part of the conversation. I've repeatedly pointed to the concept of illegal workers who are essentially in business for themselves. do you really think that before Random Joe hires a carpenter, he's checking his immigration status? Yes, I know, he should check for licenses and insurance and the licensing body and the insurer should make sure that the individual is legal for issuing either but reality cuts a different cloth.
 
panamaican said:
I don't know why I'm reading so many wall comments when I've never mentioned one. There are plenty of ways to regulate your borders, including but not exclusively walls.

Now you can certainly assess the legality of potential workers and crack down on them. But it's just part of the conversation. I've repeatedly pointed to the concept of illegal workers who are essentially in business for themselves. do you really think that before Random Joe hires a carpenter, he's checking his immigration status? Yes, I know, he should check for licenses and insurance and the licensing body and the insurer should make sure that the individual is legal for issuing either but reality cuts a different cloth.
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While I agree it's not a magic bullet it is the lowest hanging fruit with substantial upside for the citizen tax payer.

As to Joe i feel less concerned as that is by definition small scale and is exclusively done with after tax dollars.

Only people can deal with them as for business that is a non deductible expense.
It's not a non issue but it is a smaller issue. For example i feel regular employment is more of a pull factor tgen random tasking while knowing every client you speak to could get you deported.
 
HIMBOB said:
I think the fine should be that any wages paid to illegal workers are considered as untaxed taxable income.
This would ensure the penalty fits the scale of the indiscretion.

For example if you pay $100 in wages legitimately it reduces your business income by $100 saving you roughly $35 company tax. So really it takes $65 off your after tax profit.

If you pay $100 to an illegal worker you can't claim the deduction so it costs you $100 from after tax profit.




If im a drug dealer is that the government's fault because they haven't stopped me?

Governments need to make it possible for employers to verify the legal status of their employees.
If the government does make it a reasonable process and employers avoid the process they are wilfully breaking the law.
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E-verify is free and has been around for a decade. My family has a small business and we use e-verify whenever we hire new employees
 
Toothless King said:
E-verify is free and has been around for a decade. My family has a small business and we use e-verify whenever we hire new employees
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I was going to ask you about that.

Can you please tell me a bit more about it? In particular why someone would not use it.
 
Maybe we don't go after employers who hire illegals because the President does it?
 
HIMBOB said:
While I agree it's not a magic bullet it is the lowest hanging fruit with substantial upside for the citizen tax payer.

As to Joe i feel less concerned as that is by definition small scale and is exclusively done with after tax dollars.

Only people can deal with them as for business that is a non deductible expense.
It's not a non issue but it is a smaller issue. For example i feel regular employment is more of a pull factor tgen random tasking while knowing every client you speak to could get you deported.
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My experience says otherwise. These guys move into their ethnic communities where they're not going to get deported and sell services direct to consumers. They're not landing $50k/yr jobs and they're not looking for them. Sure, there are the occasional larger company involved, I'm not disputing that but it's heavily farming.

In 2012 they audited 3000 companies when the illegal immigrant workforce is 8 million people. Busting these companies is peanuts in the scale of things. If bust Subway, you're busting them on a franchise by franchise basis to the tune of what, 2-3 illegal employees? If you only focused on the big companies, they're not hiring thousands of illegal employees so you'll get more people per bust but you're going to be missing most of these people because they're in small businesses that have 1-4 of them.

So, you're going to spend a lot of time and money to target drips and drops of illegal workers. I don't think illegal hiring is the lowest hanging fruit. And we the tax payer aren't really saving anything either. Not saying it shouldn't be done but after you account for the cost of the investigation, the possible increase in product costs where legal is replacing illegal labor, do we actually make any money? Again, I still think it should be done but I don't think the economic argument has much strength.
 
business/govt. know what they are doing but now we have the loose cannon in the white house and in some ways it's refreshing. I get sick of hearing politicians who give you everything but a straight answer. Remember Obama talking out of both sides of his mouth? saying how we're all immigrants and shit? He said that because he's a puppet he can't give a good answer on anything. At least trump is not a puppet.

One thing WE have to do and that's to stop luring these people here with all our nice shit, I've spoken to a ton of immigrants and I know how they think. Anyone can claim being a refugee from lazkasistan and get in and then we work the fuck out of them and they get the nice cars, they tell their families about this shit and then they want to come here. Truth is, I don't think it's really even worth the stress and consequences to their mental and physical health but they don't tell always tell people that and even when they do, these people don't listen, all they see is the nice cars and the money. Then they come over here and they get fucked by some asshole employer. I'm in seattle, supposedly we are fighting against trump but the liberals who are doing it don't really live in the real world. Seattle is undergoing a population boom, not just from all the East Indians, Africans, Asians and Latinos but also from all the tech workers hording to the region. The moneymakers have a vested interest in this, a guy like me and most americans, well.., honestly it just makes our life more complicated. Traffic is a mess, you can't go anywhere without knowing you are going to feel clausterphobic. The jobs that the mexicans have where they are treated like shit, i don't want, the tech jobs I can't have so I have a goal of just getting a piece of property somewhere way out, maybe even in another country and leave all this mess to god.
 
no fat chicks said:
Most people that are illegals actually legally flew in. . .
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i've known college students who had student visas from asia i'm sure some of them stay here illegally but they generally don't like to break rules. The latinos/as I've asked have told me they crossed desert to get here and had to pay a shitload of money, as in 5000 for it. Doesn't make sense to me, hell, i'd probably be happier in Mexico and I've told them this.
 
Employers routinely use child slave labor and slave labor. Employers routinely defraud the public and their own workforce. Employers routinely furnish the public with dangerous, deadly products and services.

Why did Donald Trump avoid jail by paying a fine for violating money laundering laws 106 times at one casino?

Why are toothless Class Actions so prevalent? See the fraud from the Trump University class action. Trump steals and defrauds his 'students' and pays just a portion of the restitution due.

It's largely policy driven. The Makers are important. Laws apply to them differently. When Trump breaks the law 106 felonies, he writes a check and keeps on defrauding anyone he can. A black guy steals a carton of smokes from a gas station and he gets prison time and a ruined life.

In light of those things, hiring illegals is nothing to write home about. A few INS sweeps and it's back to business.
 
panamaican said:
My experience says otherwise. These guys move into their ethnic communities where they're not going to get deported and sell services direct to consumers. They're not landing $50k/yr jobs and they're not looking for them. Sure, there are the occasional larger company involved, I'm not disputing that but it's heavily farming.

In 2012 they audited 3000 companies when the illegal immigrant workforce is 8 million people. Busting these companies is peanuts in the scale of things. If bust Subway, you're busting them on a franchise by franchise basis to the tune of what, 2-3 illegal employees? If you only focused on the big companies, they're not hiring thousands of illegal employees so you'll get more people per bust but you're going to be missing most of these people because they're in small businesses that have 1-4 of them.

So, you're going to spend a lot of time and money to target drips and drops of illegal workers. I don't think illegal hiring is the lowest hanging fruit. And we the tax payer aren't really saving anything either. Not saying it shouldn't be done but after you account for the cost of the investigation, the possible increase in product costs where legal is replacing illegal labor, do we actually make any money? Again, I still think it should be done but I don't think the economic argument has much strength.
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With subway the franchisor could dictate that franchisees who don't make reasonable attempts to verify the legitimacy of their employees could have their franchise revoked.

There will always be blackmarkets but what you can control is when legit business engages in black market activities.
 
HIMBOB said:
I think he was being sarcastic. Well i hope so.
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It's the war room. He's just as likely 100 srs. Have you not seen the evolution threads? Anything is possible on this sub forum.
 
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