Discussion in 'Sports Bar' started by CodeBreaker, May 8, 2018.
Lol at Bird
FFS, ESPN getting ahead of itself again. Oh well, it's my boy Pelton, I'm always interested to hear his numbers:
LeBron or MJ? How the King is settling the GOAT debate
I don't think it's that far-fetched...3 rings, 3 MVP's, 12x AS, one of the best HL reels ever, incredibly high level of competition, Dream Team, on top of a stellar college career.
3 rings, 3 Finals MVPs, 4 MVPs, + way more statistical record and accomplishments + better peak years + LONGEVITY
It isn't a debate anymore on who is the best SF ever.
Well, his multiple 10+ blocks-a-game seasons aren't showing up in the defensive metrics because they didn't record those at the time. Comparing efficiency metrics from that era of stat-keeping is misguided and ultimately futile. It's profoundly ignorant to how those metrics are devised, frankly. Bill was incontrovertibly the MVP of those Celtic teams (that's why they were giving him all the MVP awards, dude). You want a stat that matters? Let's start with the year before Bill's rookie season when he came aboard Boston, and end with the few seasons after he left the team.
Boston Celtics, Team Opponent Points Allowed Per Game
*Bob Cousy's MVP season
Red= No Bill Russell on Celtics
Green = Boston Celtics NBA Champions
If you want to be taken seriously refrain from ever saying anything as retarded as, "You could argue that [Bill Russell] wasn't even the best player on his own team".
Just because you can argue something doesn't mean that you should, sir.
Finals/MVP's are comparable. As far as stats and longevity; Bird played in college and entered the league well into his 20's. The stats would be close if Bird had started young too. Bird also had a tougher strength of schedule. Bird also didn't rountinely change teams, and was never on another alpha's team.
I think Lebron is slightly better objectively, but Bird is ahead on intangibles. If Lebron wins a ring this year, I'd concede he clearly has the greater legacy in the game. For now, I'm calling them rough equivalents, i.e. fringe top 5 all time.
Elgin Baylor nin 62
Dirk Nowitzki 2011 (The Dad dicking of a lifetime tbh)
Durant being untouchable in last years finals
LeBron in 2016 DA COMEBACK
Shaq murdering the Nets in 2000
Kobe in 09
Those are better off the top of my head for recent that were better with the exception of Baylor.
Lol, stopped reading at Dirk 2011
.416% shaating for the series. GOAT
But you can't take away or blame LeBron that he was too good to come to the NBA straight out of High School. That should be a plus for him. I'd agree with you in terms of intangibles. But overall, LeBron has clearly been ahead of Larry since 2016. That's just me.
I'm not blaming Lebron for anything. Going pro was a great move for him. But in Bird's era, it simply didn't happen fresh out of high school, and you can't fault him for not playing at an age when Lebron was already racking up numbers. And I think it's a safe bet that a guy who came into the league and had a 20/10/5 season and went to the ECF as a 23yr old rookie, would have put up good numbers years prior to that, given the opportunity.
And a 22yr old one man-wrecking crew carrying a team of unknowns to the Finals. They had no business to be there in the first place. Anyway, I have Bird around top 7 on my list.
Wade's '06 performance > Dirk's '11 IMO. But just playing devil's advocate...that stat tells a small part of the story. Dirk, with Jason Terry and 40yr old Kidd, took down the quintessential superteam of Wade/Lebron/Bosh in 6, avging 26/10 in the process, and hit big shots at crucial times from what I recall.
Regardless of when you start, there's going to be a learning curve. If Bird had went in at 19, he would've been MVP-caliber by 22 as well.
But his body declined faster. Look at what LBJ's doing at age 33. Let alone going to the Finals year after year after year.
Lebron will end up with a greater legacy. And it will be largely due to longevity. Right now, all factors considered, they're about the same IMO. But if we're going to fault Bird for having an amazing college career, then yeah, I suppose you could say Lebron has better longevity already.
Edit: at age 33, Bird averaged 24/10/8. And that was fresh off an injury that sidelined him for a year.
Well damn...good thing I'm not too worried about being taken seriously.
GOAT Cousy > Bill Rodman
I wish I could say Kobe, but it's gotta be Kamaal Jabaar.
Top 5 all time. Lebrick not top 10.
Go to sleep.
LeBron is definitely top 15 all time.
Youre just hating at this point stop it.
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