Who is the GOAT of Kickboxing

[Julius_Caesar]

horsemeat consumption

sounds like the type of kinky shit I say whilst receiving oral sex

would muscle guys around and bully them with his strength.

You forgot to end this sentence with "no homo"

 

[Snubnoze707]

Well this thread took a twisted turn real fast...

 

[Julius_Caesar]

Well this thread took a twisted turn real fast...

like i just slapped this thread on the ass...

 

[AbeRudder]

The point was in regards to him "juicing more" than others. They were all juicing, he just had a larger frame already to carry that muscle.

I think what made him a monster was when he was at his peak of horsemeat consumption he was primarily competing in K-1 where he found a lot of advantage in being able to utilize a tight high guard with the gloves, while not having to have take down concerns. His biggest weakness is his jaw, and he was able to protect it better in Kickboxing, combined with him being big and imposing and would muscle guys around and bully them with his strength. It was a combination of factors that gave him success in that period and horse steaks certainly played a role. I felt like his technique was more clumsy though.

I agree that it's unfair to put alistair's success 100% down to the juice when there have been other blatantly sauced up fighters that didn't accomplish what he did. It's also different in certain cases, Aerts didn't look like he was on anything earlier on in his career and was a top fighter but there is no way he would have had the career longevity he did without using steroids.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

I think what made him a monster was when he was at his peak of horsemeat consumption he was primarily competing in K-1 where he found a lot of advantage in being able to utilize a tight high guard with the gloves, while not having to have take down concerns. His biggest weakness is his jaw, and he was able to protect it better in Kickboxing, combined with him being big and imposing and would muscle guys around and bully them with his strength. It was a combination of factors that gave him success in that period and horse steaks certainly played a role. I felt like his technique was more clumsy though.

Overeems ability to bully guys in k1 and impose his physicality on them, has a lot to do with the fact that he actually, kind of, had some vague idea of what he was doing in the clinch and abused it. By heavyweight standards Overeem clinch technique is quite good.

There have been lots of gigantic, hormone freaks in heavyweight kickboxing history, not many of them could impose themselves like Overeem.

 

[Tayski]

There have been lots of gigantic, hormone freaks in heavyweight kickboxing history, not many of them could impose themselves like Overeem.

Let's be honest, Overeem's real success in K-1 which was winning the 2010 WGP was also mostly due to him being very lucky with his draw on top of his massive juiced size; fighting Tyrone Spong an undersized HW who still gave him a solid fight, and then fighting Ghokan Saki another undersized HW who had a broken arm going into a fight, and then an old broken Peter Aerts in the finals who had just gotten smashed by Schilt in the semi's. Apart from that WGP win, his only good wins against solid names were when he KO'd Hari in their first fight and a decision win against a 39 years old Aerts in 2009.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Gotta give credit to Reem though. The Uber Knee was a serious threat. They literally changed the clinch rule to one single collar because of it. He fought very patient and smart in his K-1 run too. He had a bit of luck in the tournament he won but that's always going to be a possibility in the tournament format, not his fault. Would have been interesting had Semmy went on to fight Reem in the final rather than an exhausted Aerts, but Aerts beating Semmy was such an awesome moment and sealed his GOAT status IMO.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

Let's be honest, Overeem's real success in K-1 which was winning the 2010 WGP was also mostly due to him being very lucky with his draw on top of his massive juiced size; fighting Tyrone Spong an undersized HW who still gave him a solid fight, and then fighting Ghokan Saki another undersized HW who had a broken arm going into a fight, and then an old broken Peter Aerts in the finals who had just gotten smashed by Schilt in the semi's. Apart from that WGP win, his only good wins against solid names were when he KO'd Hari in their first fight and a decision win against a 39 years old Aerts in 2009.

You could say the same thing about Aerts or any of the bigger k1 heavyweights. Many of his biggest wins were against undersized heavyweights as well.

I don't see the 2010 gp win as less impressive, given the circumstances. It no different from the circumstance that lots of other fighters won the gp, more impressive than many, actually. Not really any more or less lucky.

 

[Tayski]

Gotta give credit to Reem though. The Uber Knee was a serious threat. They literally changed the clinch rule to one single collar because of it. He fought very patient and smart in his K-1 run too. He had a bit of luck in the tournament he won but that's always going to be a possibility in the tournament format, not his fault. Would have been interesting had Semmy went on to fight Reem in the final rather than an exhausted Aerts, but Aerts beating Semmy was such an awesome moment and sealed his GOAT status IMO.

Sure you gotta give him credit, however I wonder if he would really have won that WGP that impressively had Saki and Aerts not gone in to fight him while at today's standards they most likely wouldn't even be allowed to go back in the ring for another fight (Saki with a broken arm, and Aerts in zombie mode after a war vs. Schilt).

Also correct if I'm wrong but I believe the clinching rule change was made before Overeem's WGP run, probably because of Buakaw. His double hand clinch + 2 knees KO of Teixeira was actually a foul according to the rules at the time.

 

[Tayski]

You could say the same thing about Aerts or any of the bigger k1 heavyweights. Many of his biggest wins were against undersized heavyweights as well.

I don't see the 2010 gp win as less impressive, given the circumstances. It no different from the circumstance that lots of other fighters won the gp, more impressive than many, actually.

I agree, the difference is Aerts won the WGP several times, while Overeem I'm not sure would have managed to win it more than that 1 time even if he had participated more.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Also correct if I'm wrong but I believe the clinching rule change was made before Overeem's WGP run, probably because of Buakaw. His double hand clinch + 2 knees KO of Teixeira was actually a foul according to the rules at the time.

Clinch knees were reduced to single strike and seperate while allowing double collar because of Semmy and Buakaw. Clinch knees were later restricted again to a single collar clinch because of Overeem. No two handed clinching allowed to this day because of him murdering Texiera.

This rule change bugs me to this day. Now we have referees interrupting fluid offence to bitch and moan about clinching constantly.

Most other organizations like Glory and Kunlun allow double collar clinching.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

I agree, the difference is Aerts won the WGP several times, while Overeem I'm not sure would have managed to win it more than that 1 time even if he had participated more.

Well, I'm not really trying to compare the two career wise. Aert's career is obviously better. Just saying that "size" or "luck" were advantages that most of the heavyweight gp winners had, not just Overeem.

 

[Tayski]

Clinch knees were reduced to single strike and seperate while allowing double collar because of Semmy and Buakaw. Clinch knees were later restricted again to a single collar clinch because of Overeem. No two handed clinching allowed to this day because of him murdering Texiera.

So the fact he delivered 2 knees in the 2 handed clinch vs. Teixeira makes it a foul anyway.

Somehow I'd like to see him fight Rico.

 

[Snubnoze707]

So the fact he delivered 2 knees in the 2 handed clinch vs. Teixeira makes it a foul anyway.

He tried to use a loophole by using a single collar on the first knee and double on the follow up for the murder blow. That was a big debate on this forum then.

Sign me up for a fight with Rico. Not sure if Econo Reem can she'll up his fragile chin quite as well though.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Tie between Aerts and Hoost imo, with Schilt very close behind

 

[Hotora86]

Tie between Aerts and Hoost imo, with Schilt very close behind

those Dutch sure do know how to fight, eh?

 

[Austin Harbourne]

I'd say hoost. Suprised you don't hear lee banner in the goat conversation tbh.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

He always been a overachiever to me. He does not display the traits one will associate with athleticism. He is not particularly fast, but he is able to beat guys much faster. He actually looks really slow, and makes it look hard to believe he can actually land on people. He is just technically sound. He is like the Carlos Baldomir of KB.

 

[Snubnoze707]

He always been a overachiever to me. He does not display the traits one will associate with athleticism. He is not particularly fast, but he is able to beat guys much faster. He actually looks really slow, and makes it look hard to believe he can actually land on people. He is just technically sound. He is like the Carlos Baldomir of KB.

See and those are the factors you got to put in play when talking about GOAT. It's not just how many GP's you've won. Aerts just has so many arguments going for him.

 

[Lovestorm]

Rob Kaman