Who here thinks HW Cormier may beat a Prime Fedor?

[johnmangala]

UFC fighters fight in a different rule set almost every 2nd event... even within their own promotion.


Dan Henderson wasn't past his prime. In fact, pretty much all of the big wins of his career were during his TRT stretch. Oddly enough, he started losing almost every fight as soon as he got off of it. Then he got back on in it for the Shogun fight (which he won), and then got off it and went back to losing every fight.


Russians are notorious dopers


And we're pretending that Americans aren't ?

It isn't about America v Russia. Very poor attempts at strawmen. You repeatedly try to derail the argument because you don't have a direct argument.

It's about all the excuses.

Fedor is exempt from losses by people like you.

Grow up. People lose, you don't need to find excuses to cope.

Henderson was older, past his prime (was also in PRIDE and a dual champ), and had Fedor face down ass up.

With your logic Arlovski was in his prime right before he got KO'd by Miocic because he was on a solid streak.

Rampage also fought in PRIDE, why was he able to adapt to the cage but Fedor couldn't? Rampage even started MMA before Fedor. Was in more wars and had more damage done to him.

The point about rulesets is prime Fedor is restricted to that ruleset, he wasn't as good in MMA universally. But others with more mileage and damage were able to adapt?

 

[RoyCisneros]

Prime fedor was the goat.

Prime Cormier was a really good fighter but 2nd to Jon Jones. I'll take the greatest of all time.

but in reality Cormier and a lot of other guys have the tools to beat fedor. but they never were able to get it together enough to defeat him

 

[DayV]

Would you rather I post gifs of Fedor's stand up defense vs arguably the greatest striker in MMA history?

And prior to this fight the MMA universe was amazed by Mirko's cat-quick reflexes...

Mirko was gassed and slow after the first round and like 5 minutes defending on the floor.
Much of that so called "Fedor besting Cro Cop on the feet" happened in 2nd and 3rd round where he was gassed out and slow.
Fedor was lucky that Cro Cop slipped on canvas that was wet from previous fights on that high kick before his leg reached Fedor, that kick could have knocked Fedor out if Mirko didn`t slip.
That was the key moment of the fight, Fedor was not able to secure takedown by his own, but Mirko slipped and Fedor used that to lay on him and wear him down on the ground for minutes. After that Cro Cop gassed from defending on the bottom and he was pretty much finished and struggled to catch a breath for the rest of the fight.
It was shortly after Fedor was rocked and Mirko broke his nose.

Fedor also probably intentionaly jumped through the ropes out of the ring when he saw that he missed Mirko, to avoid punishment by soccer kicks.

 

[Mixfight]

Mirko was gassed and slow after the first round and like 5 minutes defending on the floor.
Much of that so called "Fedor besting Cro Cop on the feet" happened in 2nd and 3rd round where he was gassed out and slow.
Fedor was lucky that Cro Cop slipped on canvas that was wet from previous fights on that high kick before his leg reached Fedor, that kick could have knocked Fedor out if Mirko didn`t slip.
That was the key moment of the fight, Fedor was not able to secure takedown by his own, but Mirko slipped and Fedor used that to lay on him and wear him down on the ground for minutes. After that Cro Cop gassed from defending on the bottom and he was pretty much finished and struggeled to catch a breath for the rest of the fight.
It was shortly after Fedor was rocked and Mirko broke his nose.

Fedor also probably intentionaly jumped through the ropes out of the ring when he saw that ge missed Mirko, to avoid punishment by soccer kicks.

Lol you must be retarded

 

[moreorless87]

Mirko was gassed and slow after the first round and like 5 minutes defending on the floor.
Much of that so called "Fedor besting Cro Cop on the feet" happened in 2nd and 3rd round where he was gassed out and slow.
Fedor was lucky that Cro Cop slipped on canvas that was wet from previous fights on that high kick before his leg reached Fedor, that kick could have knocked Fedor out if Mirko didn`t slip.
That was the key moment of the fight, Fedor was not able to secure takedown by his own, but Mirko slipped and Fedor used that to lay on him and wear him down on the ground for minutes. After that Cro Cop gassed from defending on the bottom and he was pretty much finished and struggled to catch a breath for the rest of the fight.
It was shortly after Fedor was rocked and Mirko broke his nose.

Fedor also probably intentionaly jumped through the ropes out of the ring when he saw that he missed Mirko, to avoid punishment by soccer kicks.

Crocop slowed down I'd agree as the fight progressed although he wasn't exactly helpless standing. Before that you had 5 mins of Fedor stalking Mirko very aggressively indeed yet talking very little punishment, key to that was how much he could slip Mirko's counters. Of coruse it goes both way, Crocop showed excellent defence as well not taking a ton of shots from Fedor despite being backed up against the ropes a good deal.

As far as Mirko's "slip" does I think you overplay that, that highkick attempt was always rushed from him and you can see actually that the slip makes it closer not further from landing. When Mirko throws it the kick is well off target infront of Fedor but slipping forward means his calve grazes Fedor's head.

Generally the first 5 mins of that fight for me is the best technical kickboxing display we've seen in MMA from both guys. Its only recently with the "neo footwork" fighters at 135lbs like Dillashaw that I think were seeing something similar again.

Again for me Fedor/Cormier has a massive unknown in it when it comes to grappling, Cormier has never engaged a guy with really dangerous subs and sweeps from his back on the mat.

 

[DayV]

Lol you must be retarded

Watch your mouth, bum.

Mirko gassed out aftet the first round, and most of that Fedor`s dominance on the feet in stand up happened in 2nd and 3rd round when Cro Cop was visibly gassed out and tired.

 

[dfoster]

Fedor never fought anyone DC's caliber. And no, a roided up Randleman does not compare

 

[faustian]

Man blocking shots was consider amazing back then?

What?

Mirko was gassed and slow after the first round and like 5 minutes defending on the floor.
Much of that so called "Fedor besting Cro Cop on the feet" happened in 2nd and 3rd round where he was gassed out and slow.
Fedor was lucky that Cro Cop slipped on canvas that was wet from previous fights on that high kick before his leg reached Fedor, that kick could have knocked Fedor out if Mirko didn`t slip.
That was the key moment of the fight, Fedor was not able to secure takedown by his own, but Mirko slipped and Fedor used that to lay on him and wear him down on the ground for minutes. After that Cro Cop gassed from defending on the bottom and he was pretty much finished and struggled to catch a breath for the rest of the fight.
It was shortly after Fedor was rocked and Mirko broke his nose.

Fedor also probably intentionaly jumped through the ropes out of the ring when he saw that he missed Mirko, to avoid punishment by soccer kicks.

Except that Fedor came out stalking Mirko from the opening bell. At that time and place in MMA history, the idea of stalking Mirko was suicidal, yet Fedor did it and if you don't think his striking defense was a major part of why he was able to do it then I don't know what to tell you

 

[DayV]

What?



Except that Fedor came out stalking Mirko from the opening bell. At that time and place in MMA history, the idea of stalking Mirko was suicidal, yet Fedor did it and if you don't think his striking defense was a major part of why he was able to do it then I don't know what to tell you

Fedor was making pressure to neutralize Mirko`s kicking game, I agree with that.

But Cro Cop found him and countered him, and broke his nose.

The key moment that decided the fight was Mirko`s slipping on high kick while Fedor was rocked, after that Fedor grinded him down on the ground, and Mirko was noticeably gassed out in 2nd and 3rd round and much slower, and thats when Fedor showed most of the good things that he did on the feet.

 

[faustian]

Generally the first 5 mins of that fight for me is the best technical kickboxing display we've seen in MMA from both guys. Its only recently with the "neo footwork" fighters at 135lbs like Dillashaw that I think were seeing something similar again.

No doubt. I just posted the full fight vid but I have less than zero expectation that any of these noobs will actually watch it. You can see right off the bat what a high level Fedor and Mirko are on. The focus and intensity and then, of course, the actual skill. Unmatched

Regardless, it's nice to revisit as an old school MMA fan. That fight for me was probably the peak of my MMA fandom

 

[faustian]

Fedor was making pressure to neutralize Mirko`s kicking game, I agree with that.

But Cro Cop found him and countered him, and broke his nose.

The key moment that decided the fight was Mirko`s slipping on high kick while Fedor was rocked, after that Fedor grinded him down on the ground, and Mirko was noticeably gassed out in 2nd and 3rd round and much slower, and thats when Fedor showed most of the good things that he did on the feet.

Mirko slipped because Fedor threw an earth-shattering overhand right counter at him then blocked the LHK after Mirko rushed in thinking he had Fedor dead to rights. Mirko went from full offensive attack to defense mode in a split second

I posted the full fight. The part you're referring to begins at about 08:55

 

[moreorless87]

No doubt. I just posted the full fight vid but I have less than zero expectation that any of these noobs will actually watch it. You can see right off the bat what a high level Fedor and Mirko are on. The focus and intensity and then, of course, the actual skill. Unmatched

Regardless, it's nice to revisit as an old school MMA fan. That fight for me was probably the peak of my MMA fandom

Just look at the stats in terms of how little actually landed in that first round despite two men exchanging very aggressively, that just doesn't happen at HW anymore, if two guys throw down someone goes down because the defensive ability isn't there.

To me the difference is this is two guys training at a high level in their striking, MMA adapted quite heavily of course(especially Fedor) the product of training with world class trainers not dumbing down what there teaching. Too often I think fans these days tend to view "MT/Boxing for dummies" kind of striking as the base level for technique, again though look at someone like Dillashaw who most would agree is one of the highest level strikers in MMA today, he's not doing your typically upright "pump the jab, throw a weak lowkick" style is he? he's a lot more fluid, keeps his hands much lower depending on head/foot movement for defence, etc. Basically Bang teaching him un watered down kickboxing reworked for MMA not a simplified version.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

It isn't about America v Russia. Very poor attempts at strawmen. You repeatedly try to derail the argument because you don't have a direct argument.

It's about all the excuses.

Fedor is exempt from losses by people like you.

Grow up. People lose, you don't need to find excuses to cope.

Henderson was older, past his prime (was also in PRIDE and a dual champ), and had Fedor face down ass up.

With your logic Arlovski was in his prime right before he got KO'd by Miocic because he was on a solid streak.

Rampage also fought in PRIDE, why was he able to adapt to the cage but Fedor couldn't? Rampage even started MMA before Fedor. Was in more wars and had more damage done to him.

The point about rulesets is prime Fedor is restricted to that ruleset, he wasn't as good in MMA universally. But others with more mileage and damage were able to adapt?

It's a strawman to bring up Americans penchant for steroids? Sure thing buddy


Henderson is one of the best fighters ever and was loaded up on TRT. Fedor lost. It's not really that big of a deal. There's not many fighters who fight over a decade before getting KO'ed, especially at HW.


Speaking of straw man arguments.... what the fuck does Rampage have to do with Fedor?


Fedor was restricted by a less restrictive ruleset? It sounds just as dumb the second time you've said it.

 

[DayV]

As far as Mirko's "slip" does I think you overplay that, that highkick attempt was always rushed from him and you can see actually that the slip makes it closer not further from landing. When Mirko throws it the kick is well off target infront of Fedor but slipping forward means his calve grazes Fedor's head.

Watch the gif closely, Cro Cop`s standing leg starts to slipp and move even before he lifts his kicking leg higher than knee.


In general, I belive that Fedor would beat Cormier convincingly in the ring.
Cormier`s only chance is by holding him against the fence in the cage.
Also withou elbows, Cormier would not be able to hurt Fedor on the ground, and would most likely suffer armbar.

 

[moreorless87]

Watch the gif closely, Cro Cop`s standing leg starts to slipp and move even before he lifts his kicking leg higher than knee.

In general, I belive that Fedor would beat Cormier convincingly in the ring.
Cormier`s only chance is by holding him against the fence in the cage.
Also withou elbows, Cormier would not be able to hurt Fedor on the ground, and would most likely suffer armbar.

Again though look at the way he's throwing that highkick, its not your typical well timed Mirko shot ala say Igor, Wand, Aleks, etc. He's rushing trying to exploit breaking(or at leatst hurting) Fedor's nose with that crafty double jab and that puts him off balance. Plus again when he slips he slips forward not backwards, so yeah it might take some potential power off of the kick but it also means it looks closer than it really was, he basically slips into Fedor as he's throwing it.

I actually think its a big unknown for aloads of modern fighters how they would do against an elite sub grappler, for one thing fewer such fighters are around IMHO, for another actively attacking on the ground is much rarer in the sport today. Just look at Cain vs Werdum, Sherdog was full of posters claiming Cain was too evolved and would neutralise Werdums BJJ and beat him up yet when the fight happened Cain wanted none of the ground until he was all beaten up and gassed.

I mean saying Comrier might be able to avoid the ground is one thing and might be true but when you base your case on him outwrestling Fedor then how he'd do vs him sub grappling wise becomes a big issue.

 

[Juice]

Yeah so DC weighed in at a grand total of 238 lbs vs Barnett. Prime Fedor was anywhere between 230-240 lbs. Fedor also has a distinct height and reach advantage. Fedor is just simply the bigger person. Deal with it

DC has great wrestling technique, no doubt. But I'm talking about actual strength, actual power. A big part of this concept is punching power. Numerous respected MMA veterans have gone on record saying Fedor is the hardest puncher they've ever experienced. Regarding grappling strength, Fedor isn't exactly a slouch there either, ragdolling large HWs like Herring and Schilt and making it look easy

The speed advantage is substantial, especially in terms of reflexes

Seriously dude, go watch some old Fedor fights in Pride. You might actually enjoy it

Wrong again, Prime Fedor never weighed anything close to 240 pounds, show me the proof please? Again Fedor is smaller than DC and that something you just can't stand and won't admit, you rather just stay in denial in a fantasy that your hero is bigger. Fedor weighed 220 - 230 pounds in all of his prime fights. Again DC weighed close to 250 pounds, and thats something you have to deal with, but can't obviously.

And yea im talking about actual strength and punching power, Fedor loses that battle easily. Fedor has great punching power, but DC has overall more pure strength and by a long shot. Trust me I have seen alot of Fedor fights, he is actually one of my fav HW's. I just think he is sometimes a lil too overrated by his fan's, just being real.

 

[EdmundHeng]

DC will win. It won't be easy. But he will win.

 

[HHJ]

Lol you must be retarded

Hes totally wrong but at least hes seen the fight. Miles above the usual

 

[faustian]

Wrong again, Prime Fedor never weighed anything close to 240 pounds, show me the proof please? Again Fedor is smaller than DC and that something you just can't stand and won't admit, you rather just stay in denial in a fantasy that your hero is bigger. Fedor weighed 220 - 230 pounds in all of his prime fights. Again DC weighed close to 250 pounds, and thats something you have to deal with, but can't obviously.

And yea im talking about actual strength and punching power, Fedor loses that battle easily. Fedor has great punching power, but DC has overall more pure strength and by a long shot. Trust me I have seen alot of Fedor fights, he is actually one of my fav HW's. I just think he is sometimes a lil too overrated by his fan's, just being real.

derp

@01:53


"Fedor comes in at about six foot one and tips the scales at two thirty six"

If you had any actual knowledge of Fedor, i.e. if you've watched his fights, you of course would know this already

 

[Ilovepizza]

derp

@01:53


"Fedor comes in at about six foot one and tips the scales at two thirty six"

If you had any actual knowledge of Fedor, i.e. you've watched his fights, you of course would know this already

bruh "Juice" is fooking retarded.