who gave wanderlei his black belt?

I don't believe ANY fighter who seldom goes to the ground is professional competition BJJ black belt. That is why I questioned if Jose Aldo was even a black belt BJJ. I hardly see him on the ground.

If you don't use it, you lose it.


..... how many black belts do you think are professional competition level?
 
Fighters stay the same all their career? Wanderlei has 50 mma matches, And many amateurmatches before that.

huh??? to clarify... I'll copy and past my exact quote and perhaps you can dwell on it: I've watched him fight his whole career, but I've never seen any bjj skills beyond purple belt level...
 
There are Maia black belts & there are Vitor Belfort black belts.
 
Wanderlei has never shown great BJJ, even in his prime. Partly, it's because of his fighting mindset.

Jr. Do Santos is another example. He was supposed to have a competent BJJ game, but he doesn't use it, even when he's outmatched on his feet.

Aldo could have mixed up his game more against Holloway, and tried to use his ground-game, but he is a real black-belt. He's just stubborn.

Some guys get their black-belt, but get KO addiction because of the ease with which you can earn a KO, and the marketability of going for it.

But we have to be honest, some guys were given their black-belts far too soon, and without as much effort as what guys normally put into obtaining a true competitive black belt.

Sometimes this is done in order to associate themselves with a well-known MMA competitor.

Rashad Evans is an example of an MMA guy who was given a black-belt for promotional purposes. He didn't even earn it in a gi, and I doubt Wanderlei did either.

You can train BJJ, and become good at it without pursuing a black belt in the gi, but it doesn't mean you should be given rank.
 
Never been submitted, he used his BJJ more earlier in his career. Definitely black belt worthy. More like Anderson Silva, defense more than offensive but can be dominated by better grapplers

remember, Chael is a very good overall grappler,
 
Fighters stay the same all their career? Wanderlei has 50 mma matches, And many amateur matches before that. If I am not mistaken, he has never been submitted before. And he was coming off a 4 year layoff!

Also looked like he had a good amount of ring rust from the long layoff.
 
There are Maia black belts & there are Vitor Belfort black belts.
Vitor's belt was questionable, but he rose to honor it in grappling matches.

Vitor just didn't have to rely on it in MMA due to his striking.
Never been submitted, he used his BJJ more earlier in his career. Definitely black belt worthy. More like Anderson Silva, defense more than offensive but can be dominated by better grapplers

remember, Chael is a very good overall grappler,
I disagree, Chael is actually a very one dimensional grappler.

Wanderlei simply had no offense on his back, and couldn't shrimp to save his life. He was stuck.

It was like watching two old guys who once dabbled in submission wrestling in their college years grapple in the front yard.
 
Agree. Chael was up on his feet in guard A LOT, no open guard from Wand (or very little), no feet on hips-push out...unreal...just sit in closed guard, try and clinch up and wait for the ref...ugh.
 
004_Chael_Sonnen.0.0.jpg
 
Also, let's be honest, some of these old timers are doing it for the pay day. They're no longer putting themselves through the grinder, and taking the ego lumps that come with grappling against the top dogs.

In a way, I don't blame them, but as they grow older, you would think that developing and maintaining a really good ground game would be their primary goal. It's easier on the body, and it can compensate for a loss in reflexes.
 
I don't believe ANY fighter who seldom goes to the ground is professional competition BJJ black belt. That is why I questioned if Jose Aldo was even a black belt BJJ. I hardly see him on the ground.

If you don't use it, you lose it.

It's well known nova unaio give black belts out early, especially to MMA...


Hell a lot of Brazilian fighter (who obviously aren't ground specialists) get there bb early too... just for hype


Vitor is another eg aka victor Gracie
 
Wandy's black belt is up there with Rashad's "black belt" and Arlovski's sambo.
 
He got it from Japan where belt prices are cheaper and competition is easier.
 
huh??? to clarify... I'll copy and past my exact quote and perhaps you can dwell on it: I've watched him fight his whole career, but I've never seen any bjj skills beyond purple belt level...
And I will copy And paste my exact quote "...never been submitted before. And he was coming off a 4 year layoff".

He is not Maia(Nobody is), but he has had a long career without being submitted. He was dominated by a high level grappler after a 4 year layoff. I just don't understand What you mean by "I've never seen any BJJ skills beyond purple belt"?
 
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Never been submitted, he used his BJJ more earlier in his career. Definitely black belt worthy. More like Anderson Silva, defense more than offensive but can be dominated by better grapplers

remember, Chael is a very good overall grappler,

Get what you are saying to an extent but Anderson has submitted high level black belts like Travis Lutter. I think the argument that people in this thread a making is that he doesn't seem to even have any sort of BJJ movements. I can't remember him even having good hip movement or ever throwing up a submission attempt, besides a guillotine choke. It takes two years of steady training to even get a blue belt from any BJJ school worth a damn, and by then you have decent basics. Wand is a legend, but his BJJ skills are nowhere near what I would expect from a Jiu-Jitsu black belt.
 
Get what you are saying to an extent but Anderson has submitted high level black belts like Travis Lutter. I think the argument that people in this thread a making is that he doesn't seem to even have any sort of BJJ movements. I can't remember him even having good hip movement or ever throwing up a submission attempt, besides a guillotine choke. It takes two years of steady training to even get a blue belt from any BJJ school worth a damn, and by then you have decent basics. Wand is a legend, but his BJJ skills are nowhere near what I would expect from a Jiu-Jitsu black belt.
Lutter was subbed because he basically fell into a triangle after being gassed, but I'll take your point. Wands grappling is probably the weakest aspect but i still think he'd have the grappling acumen over 20+ years of fighting and training to have black belt level skills. Perhaps now his skills would meet a modern black belt level, but maybe at the time shen he was awarded it did. Also It is harder to show the more 'dynamic' skills as you age, trust me (I'm a black belt in bjj about wand's age so i can sympathise). And sonnen is no slouch on the mat.
 
Probably the same person who have vitor, lyoto, and Junior theirs.
 
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