Which throwdown art is more practical for bjj, wrestling or judo?

[QingTian]

In the short run, wrestling. Long run, Judo. So as a part time beginner, Judo will be useless to you.

I actually like to teach beginners no-gi first, because adding the gi is so much more complexity to handle. Doing no-gi Judo also requires exceptional skill - no grips mean that you have to be able to throw instantly.

So do wrestling.

 

[Grappler111]

No... that totally depends where you are in the continent wide, country with more wrestling rooms and wrestlers than any other country, with multiple states the size of your country. Tell me again how every coach teaches freestyle a certain way from Italy...

For the TS the limited time you have makes me suggest wrestling for best return on investment. But if the Judo instructor is a better coach. Go with that

I like this "american" way...

 

[jack36767]

In Italy you can see a lot of Freestyle-Greco cross training.

You get that in the US too depending on where you are. And it's not just the US that focuses on leg attacks. Many of Iran's, Japan's, and Mongolia's best wrestlers almost exclusively hit leg attacks as well.. is the multiple time world champ Khudocov less impressive because he hit snap downs and shots far more than upper body stuff..

 

[jack36767]

I like this "american" way...

So one video of Russian defectors demonstratING technique invalidates my point... you are dumb

I guess we all can't get Cuban defectors to get us a medal

 

[Concrete Whale]

Why is it always (a minority of) wrestlers go crazy in these threads and start attacking other grappling arts lol

 

[jack36767]

Why is it always (a minority of) wrestlers go crazy in these threads and start attacking other grappling arts lol

I'm perfectly calm.. a person from thousands of miles away is trying to tell TS how things are done in both in a sport he's never done and a country in general

I expect the same annoyance and corrections if I tell BJJ_Rage how Paraguay works or a bjj guy if I say that is for pussies..

You'll also notice.. me the wrestler told the TS to do judo not wrestling if the instruction is better.

 

[Grappler111]

You get that in the US too depending on where you are. And it's not just the US that focuses on leg attacks. Many of Iran's, Japan's, and Mongolia's best wrestlers almost exclusively hit leg attacks as well.. is the multiple time world champ Khudocov less impressive because he hit snap downs and shots far more than upper body stuff..

You are talking about world class athletes with an extreme technical specialization. A complete wrestler is prepared in leg attacks and upper body wrestling. The mongolian Batbold is a monster in upper body wrestling, so a lot of OTHERS mongolians, russians and iranians :





I'm agree about Japan's wrestlers.

 

[Jhf884]

A mixture of Freestyle and Greco Roman (especially in USA where freestyle is too folkstyle oriented).

I'm not a wrestler at all, what do you mean "freestyle is too folkstyle oriented"? And why would that be bad for BJJ?

 

[Grappler111]

I'm perfectly calm.. a person from thousands of miles away is trying to tell TS how things are done in both in a sport he's never done and a country in general

I expect the same annoyance and corrections if I tell BJJ_Rage how Paraguay works or a bjj guy if I say that is for pussies..

You'll also notice.. me the wrestler told the TS to do judo not wrestling if the instruction is better.

Only 25 years of Freestyle and Greco Roman training...

 

[Grappler111]

I'm not a wrestler at all, what do you mean "freestyle is too folkstyle oriented"? And why would that be bad for BJJ?

No, it is a little OT.
If you want the better style for stand up wrestling the aswer is Olympic Wrestling (Freestyle-Greco).

 

[jack36767]

You are talking about world class athletes with an extreme technical specialization. A complete wrestler is prepared in leg attacks and upper body wrestling. The mongolian Batbold is a monster in upper body wrestling, so a lot of OTHERS mongolians, russians and iranians :





I'm agree about Japan's wrestlers.

.... you're not getting my point, the big one being you trying to tell me how the entire US trains something or abut a style you've never done and know nothing about. And you would be surprised at the upper body arsenal of many US wrestlers.. but like those "specialized" athletes.. they have a game plan..

Did I ever say that people from those countries couldn't throw. Still not what you actually see them hit against quality competition.. you know the thingy that matiers

I don't have a problem with you promoting freestyle or greco.. my problem is the bs you say about a style you've never done and try to use an instructional from a Russian defector.. to to try to invalidate my point

 

[Jhf884]

No, it is a little OT.
If you want the better style for stand up wrestling the aswer is Olympic Wrestling (Freestyle-Greco).

Hmmm, I'm not sure I understand. How is it off-topic to ask why having a folkstyle oriented approach would mean that the wrestling didn't translate to the BJJ context as well?

I guess you are saying b/c olympic wrestling is more purely focused on the standup aspect?

 

[jack36767]

Only 25 years of Freestyle and Greco Roman training...

Talking about your commentary on American Folkstyle wrestling. I've never diminished what you know about freestyle or greco or the fact you promote them.

And call me biased, but a good chunk of my opinion comes from a world silver medalist who's son is a multiple time world team member.. among many others who've actually had high level freestyle and Greco success. From a country with far far more success.. with its own athletes in Freestyle especially

Does the US have issues with its training right now. Yes but they're do to many many more factors than just training more freestyle

 

[jack36767]

Hmmm, I'm not sure I understand. How is it off-topic to ask why having a folkstyle oriented approach would mean that the wrestling didn't translate to the BJJ context as well?

I guess you are saying b/c olympic wrestling is more purely focused on the standup aspect?

Unless you are from outside the US, everything that you would use learn and apply from folkstyle would be the same as freestyle and many things of folkstyle mat work will help your bjj. Grappler111 seems to think that because there is mat work in folkstyle that apparently it makes you clueless on your feet

But like I said, the best option is whoever is the best coaches or instructor. I don't care if its freestyle, folkstyle, judo, Sambo, or greco. I'm not being a wrestling homer. Geting the best instruction will benefit you the most

 

[Based and White Pilled]

Everyone who says to go with the best coach makes a very good point. In my first response I just weighed wrestling vs judo without really thinking about it. I said wrestling, but that was assuming all else was equal. The better coach and training partners are definitely the way to go. A good way to guage that would be to Google local tournament results and see if there are any schools with a lot of success.

Let me ask you guys another doozie. If Judo allowed pants grabbing, and shooting for the legs, and letting your knee touch the mat, then will you basically just see leg tackles, and less hip throws and trips in judo?

IIRC shooting used to be allowed in judo, but the rules were changed because a catch wrestler with limited judo experience dominated at an international level with a double leg. The judo big wigs didn't like that very much. That's the story I remember anyway. It could have just been a myth that someone in an mma gym told me once.

I think throws and trips would still happen, though, because it's very hard to shoot in on someone holding your lapel and keeping his distance.

 

[maddog7]

for gi BJJ: Judo
for MMA: wrestling (freestyle)
for no gi BJJ / sub grappling: wrestling (freestyle)

All other things being equal this is the correct answer.

 

[maddog7]

...
IIRC shooting used to be allowed in judo, but the rules were changed because a catch wrestler with limited judo experience dominated at an international level with a double leg.
...

Who is that catch wrestler supposed to be ?

 

[Based and White Pilled]

Who is that catch wrestler supposed to be ?

Idk. Like I said, I remember being told that story, but don't remember the source. It could be a myth. I'm at work so I can't research it now, but I'll try to remember to take a crack at it with the Google machine later.

 

[Based and White Pilled]

Who is that catch wrestler supposed to be ?

It was bugging me so I tried to do a quick bit of searching on my phone. I couldn't find a specific competitor that it would have been, but the general consensus on forums at the time of the rule change (Jan. 1st 2010) was that everyone thought the IJF was trying to stop wrestlers from shooting on people.

Update: Mark Cocker is the individual I found that most closely fits the story and time frame, but he did Japanese ju jitsu, Sambo, and freestyle wrestling before judo, not catch wrestling.

Update: I also thought I remembered the story being that the person was a Mongolian catch wrestler, but I wasn't sure. I googled that and came up with Tuvshinbayar Naidan. He also fits the time frame very well and is the person i think the story was about, but there was some misinformation. He is a judoka who was also a Mongolian wrestler (traditional Mongolian wrestling, not freestyle or greco). He added those techniques to his judo game and won an Olympic gold medal using a lot of leg attacks. However, he had trained extensively in judo and continued to have a good amount of success after the rule change.

 

[Badger67]

Having done both fairly decently, wrestling. More control, less risky positions, more of a do or die attitude, less breaks in competition/practice, transitions to gi and no gi better. only about 1/10 of the judo throws transition to no gi ( i have many i use but some are very position specific and more of a go to). Wrestling also teaches you how to ride your opponent and wear him down with just your weight better than judo does, though judo osae-komi can be debilitating for an opponent.