Which is the best judo throw to use on a much bigger and heavier opponent?

I prefer this from the lapel side for bjj. It keeps the choking hand blocked if you screw up the throw attempt.

I actually like morote best for BJJ, but if TS is new to Judo then ippon seio nage is a safer version against a bigger guy (no danger of having him collapse on your elbows). For ippon, I only use the lapel version.
 
This is true, as is tai otoshi ... a class of throws that is like tripping over a small child.

The problem is that unless you are incredibly good at them and commit 1000% they are also prime candidates for getting wrecked, not unlike the small child getting tripped over. If this guy was good enough use forward throws to reliably hurl opponents who outweigh him by 70 pounds, he'd be teaching class.

Ko uchi is almost zero risk and super easy to learn and execute.

I don't think ko uchi is all that easy to consistently pull off. Definitely low risk, but not so easy to throw with consistently. And frankly, you know there are no quick fixes in Judo. Might as well start working on a good universal technique like drop seio that also happens to work very well against bigger guys. It won't take him longer to learn that than to learn the timing and push-pull necessary to make ko uchi work consistently. And as forward throws go, drop seio nage with a lapel grip is maybe the easiest.
 
True enough, but that all comes back to the lack of options for somebody who knows little judo.

Saudi Ribeiro is really good at using drop seoi for BJJ and has a whole disc on it in one of his sets. One of the few BJJ competitors who has had consistent success with it. Rodolfo is maybe the best example of using morote effectively.
 
I've thrown some very big guys with harai. Some with drop seio. Some with sasae. I'm a judo novice, but can already tell you that rather than concentrating on "big guy throws" you should instead spend time using the right throw at the right time, and using the look you are given to make a decision.
 
Zankou (don't know how to quote sorry)- Vitor Oliveira hit morote twice in his division at Masters Worlds this weekend. One on Josh Hinger in the final which i have to imagine is not easy to do. Another on someone else, check FloGrappling's instagram. Not the cleanest throw, but took dude straight onto his neck.
 
I really don't like drop as i get older. Its hard on the knees.
Di Ashi / Tai Otoshi is money for me as is Uchi Mata / Ko Uchi but for a novice judo guy those have some long learning curves.
 
True enough, but that all comes back to the lack of options for somebody who knows little judo.

Saudi Ribeiro is really good at using drop seoi for BJJ and has a whole disc on it in one of his sets. One of the few BJJ competitors who has had consistent success with it. Rodolfo is maybe the best example of using morote effectively.

Judo is not the best answer for learning to take people down in a BJJ context. If that's the only question, then the answer is ankle pick or single leg. The fact is, it's very, very hard to take down a defensive guy who outweighs you by 70 lbs, and most BJJ people are very defensive in their standup since they're not penalized for not doing so. There is no fast answer for that problem, no 'just do this' that will actually work. Even throws like kouchi assume a little bit of grip domination and the ability to make the guy move a bit. That's going to be tough against someone that much bigger and stronger than you with no incentive to move. I assumed TS was asking about Judo, in which case the answer I gave makes sense since to throw someone like this he'll need to get a lot better in general, and he might as well do so by learning one of the core throws of modern competition.
 
True enough, but that all comes back to the lack of options for somebody who knows little judo.

Saudi Ribeiro is really good at using drop seoi for BJJ and has a whole disc on it in one of his sets. One of the few BJJ competitors who has had consistent success with it. Rodolfo is maybe the best example of using morote effectively.

He is easily a black belt in Judo and probably not just first dan either...

plus Saudi has all that oil money to make things happen.
 
Judo is not the best answer for learning to take people down in a BJJ context. If that's the only question, then the answer is ankle pick or single leg. The fact is, it's very, very hard to take down a defensive guy who outweighs you by 70 lbs, and most BJJ people are very defensive in their standup since they're not penalized for not doing so. There is no fast answer for that problem, no 'just do this' that will actually work. Even throws like kouchi assume a little bit of grip domination and the ability to make the guy move a bit. That's going to be tough against someone that much bigger and stronger than you with no incentive to move. I assumed TS was asking about Judo, in which case the answer I gave makes sense since to throw someone like this he'll need to get a lot better in general, and he might as well do so by learning one of the core throws of modern competition.

OP pretty clearly implied that he was no longer training judo.

Ankle pick and kouchi are very similar setups and both are slick ways to capitalize on an over extended foot. You have to set them up, of course, but if you have no set ups you might as well go home. That's partly why I recommended the 'dog on a leash' approach against a defensive BJJ stance. If you don't have a strategy for punishing that stance at the outset, there's not much point in trying to crapple against it.

Judo is actually quite effective at high weights in BJJ, but its utility declines rapidly the lower you go... ironically given that it's supposed to reverse size advantage. It's not uncommon for guys like Saulo and Rodolfo to have major success with judo, but at lighter weights and especially nogi you don't see it much, and everybody shoots instead.
 
OP pretty clearly implied that he was no longer training judo.

Ankle pick and kouchi are very similar setups and both are slick ways to capitalize on an over extended foot. You have to set them up, of course, but if you have no set ups you might as well go home. That's partly why I recommended the 'dog on a leash' approach against a defensive BJJ stance. If you don't have a strategy for punishing that stance at the outset, there's not much point in trying to crapple against it.

Judo is actually quite effective at high weights in BJJ, but its utility declines rapidly the lower you go... ironically given that it's supposed to reverse size advantage. It's not uncommon for guys like Saulo and Rodolfo to have major success with judo, but at lighter weights and especially nogi you don't see it much, and everybody shoots instead.

At lighter weight vs same weight class in competition, everybody pulls.

Lighter vs heavier in the gym though, which throws or take down do you like it forced to attack takedowns?

I have to think that lighter vs heavier in the gym, pull is still easier if it's an allowed option.
 
You're not going to throw a bigger AND stronger opponent with any Judo technique, unless you're significantly more skilled at it than your opponent.

Double/single legs etc... can work because you're relying on their lack of balance/athleticism to fill in the gaps for your lack of technique with a double/ single. Assuming you're not a high level wrestler, because if you were you wouldn't be asking the question, as you'd already know you were technically good enough to pull off the technique on someone bigger and stronger.

In reality, there's no silver bullet.

If you want to consistently throw people bigger and stronger than you, get better technically, any other answers are sticking plasters or rely on a lack of skill of the bigger/ stronger person.

Think about it this way, there's no one technique you can learn that will allow you to throw Brock Lesnar, it just isn't going to happen, unless you get to a level where you're comparably strong/big or so technically superior that it doesn't matter what the technique is, you can throw him with whatever.


I just want to quote this again in case anyone missed it.
 
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6 months of judo against a bigger stronger guy who has trained BJJ (aka not a "civillian non-grappling puke")?

Here comes the pain TS.

Try, fail (hundreds of times)
Try, Suceed (a few times)
Try, Fail (once he learns your trick....you're not the only one learning)
Get better

Repeat above
 
One of the guys I train (wrestling) with outweighs me by 40 pounds. I am more of a thrower, due to bad knees and age. In the beginning I could throw him with about anything, but he has learned my style and can usually counter it now. The bottom line is, weight classes are for a reason, I am pretty confident that I can throw most fat people, however a skilled person with more weight is much, much, harder. It doesn't matter the throw, or the leg attack all things equal the bigger man will have an advantage.
 
You're not going to throw a bigger AND stronger opponent with any Judo technique, unless you're significantly more skilled at it than your opponent.

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Sumi from the Russian tie. If someone's larger I will pretty much fight for dear life to get asymmetrical grips, which is aided by everyone sucking at grip fighting.
 
I trained judo for a couple of months, an I am trying to throw a guy that is a powerlifter, taller and weights more than 70 pounds. On top of that he only uses the bjj standup to take down. The one that you have your entire body bend forward. I cant reach his leg with my leg for an osotogari. What can I do?

I think the key here is to use speed and quickness to your advantage. A larger guy will normally move a little slower and are easier to get off balance. So I think the best moves are trips.

From my experience, ouchi gari and kosoto gake. If that don't work you can try kouchi gari off of a set up. I've also had some success with uchimata against larger guys. I've had a harder time with ippon-seo-nage, o-goshi, and tai otoshi against big guys.
 
Sumi gaeshi, tomoe nage, and seoi nage are your best friends here. Capitalize on their movement and their balance, fake going in one direction and attack the other. And above all do not hesitate or your throw will surely be countered.
 
I really think the answer to this question is literally any judo throw...you just have to be good enough at that throw. Any throw is going to be easier for you against a smaller and weaker opponent and harder against a bigger and stronger one. However, if you’re much better at a certain throw than your opponent is at defending that particular throw (or the set up for that throw) then his size won’t matter as much.

For me, it’s the sumi gaeshi, ouchi gari and yoko otoshi...but it’s not because those throws are particularly good against bigger guys. It’s just that those are my best throws overall.
 
I really think the answer to this question is literally any judo throw...you just have to be good enough at that throw. Any throw is going to be easier for you against a smaller and weaker opponent and harder against a bigger and stronger one. However, if you’re much better at a certain throw than your opponent is at defending that particular throw (or the set up for that throw) then his size won’t matter as much.

For me, it’s the sumi gaeshi, ouchi gari and yoko otoshi...but it’s not because those throws are particularly good against bigger guys. It’s just that those are my best throws overall.
I think sometimes It's easier to throw/sweep/trip a big guy. Generally they are slower and a little easier to get off balance. But I understand it's all relative to that particular opponent and style
 
Duck unders bro.
 
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