Which Country Kicked the Most Nazi Ass?

No doubt. I’ve just always wondered why attack in 1940 instead of 44 or even 45. Opening up a second front and dividing your forces just doesn’t sound like a productive dicision when you already have a western front. Plus the guy refused to mass produce bombers. We are lucky hitler was a dumb fuck and took victories out of the hands of his field marshals time after time. Stalin had ongoing purges including many generals/commanders/officers etc. as late as 1941, he wasn’t going to be a viable threat for a while
Thats all hindsight. at the time, it seemed like a perfect opportunity to attack. The Soviets were just humiliated by the Fins and it seemed that the Red Army had proven to be very incompetent after Stalin's purges. The last time the Germans attacked the Russians (in WW1), The Russians took horrendous losses and were essentially knocked out of the war. The Germans thought they could easily reproduce this again.

The Western Front basically was won. France capitulated in 46 days in 1940 and the British were easily routed back to England. The Germans seemed invincible. If you were alive at the time, you'd be thinking that the country that just took out France in a little more than a month, Completely routed the British was going to run over a country they had thoroughly and easily defeated in WW1 and that country had just gone through a huge military purge that had weakened it.
 
Granted Russia is smaller today than it was then, but their population is smaller today than it was before the war.

I think they lost almost 10% of their entire population during the war.
 
Thats all hindsight. at the time, it seemed like a perfect opportunity to attack. The Soviets were just humiliated by the Fins and it seemed that the Red Army had proven to be very incompetent after Stalin's purges. The last time the Germans attacked the Russians (in WW1), The Russians took horrendous losses and were essentially knocked out of the war. The Germans thought they could easily reproduce this again.

The Western Front basically was won. France capitulated in 46 days in 1940 and the British were easily routed back to England. The Germans seemed invincible. If you were alive at the time, you'd be thinking that the country that just took out France in a little more than a month, Completely routed the British was going to run over a country they had thoroughly and easily defeated in WW1 and that country had just gone through a huge military purge that had weakened it.

People consitently miss the point on WWII from a German perspective. It was literally ABOUT the Soviet Union. WWII started so that Hitler could invade the Soviet Union and destroy Communism. The Western Front from his perspective was about little more than securing his flanks and rear in anticipation of securing his real military objectives.
 
Stalin signed the treaty to buy himself some time. When Germany invaded he had soldiers out there without guns. You waited for a dude to die and then picked their gun up. They made troops charge without weapons, and had rifles pointed at them from behind so if they did not charge they would be shot by their own side.
Russia would have just gotten stronger.
Hitler should have tried to taken out Great Britan first, then went to Russia.
The other thing that fucked Hitler is he was constantly having to clean up Mussolini's messes in Africa.
Mussolini also started the fucking war when he invaded Africa in the early 30's. It was a slow build from there.
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Hitler's perspective, his generals were smarter than that. They didn't want a war with the Soviets, sure as shit not fighting on two fronts.

So don't mistake a nutters perspective for an entire leaderships. Hitler was too dumb stubborn and powerful for any of them to stop or change his mind on this.

It's not as simple as "Hitler was crazy, what do you want from us". Lebensraum was German Nationalistic ideology since the time of Charlemagne. It was a core policy of Nazism. So you can't say that high ranking Nazis didn't believe in war with Russia. They may have disagreed with the timing of the war, but war with Russia was always the point from the Nazi perspective. Facism and Socialism were just getting warmed up in Spain, and WWII was the big fight.
 
Thats all hindsight. at the time, it seemed like a perfect opportunity to attack. The Soviets were just humiliated by the Fins and it seemed that the Red Army had proven to be very incompetent after Stalin's purges. The last time the Germans attacked the Russians (in WW1), The Russians took horrendous losses and were essentially knocked out of the war. The Germans thought they could easily reproduce this again.

The Western Front basically was won. France capitulated in 46 days in 1940 and the British were easily routed back to England. The Germans seemed invincible. If you were alive at the time, you'd be thinking that the country that just took out France in a little more than a month, Completely routed the British was going to run over a country they had thoroughly and easily defeated in WW1 and that country had just gone through a huge military purge that had weakened it.


It was the right time to invade, and people will argue about the operational plans for ever.
 
Comrade, do not alternative facts

Sorry my hollywood friend,...I know you are member of exceptional nation but again..NJET....Will go again into it only if we will operate with facts and real number..And will probably just paste from my post history , because i already burned someone with this nonsense ... So where will u go...SU would starve without USA ? Soviet Union wouldn had weapons?... Amuse me please...

AND DONT FORGET YOUR PREMISE ... Soviet Union would get destroyed without Lend and Lease...
MY PREMISE ... Lend and Lease was quite helpful and shortened the war for good year (just speculation, maybe more maybe less) and spare another milion lives (which is exeptional, but it didnt win a war)
 
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Sorry my hollywood friend,...I know you are member of exceptional nation but again..NJET....Will go again into it only if we will operate with facts and real number..And will probably just paste from my post history , because i already burned someone with this nonsense ... So where will u go...SU would starve without USA ? Soviet Union wouldn had weapons?... Amuse me please...

AND DONT FORGET YOUR PREMISE ... Soviet Union would get destroyed without Lend and Lease...
MY PREMISE ... Lend and Lease was quite helpful and shortened the war for good year (just speculation, maybe more maybe less) and spare another milion lives (which is exeptional, but it didnt win a war)

From Wiki:
In total, the U.S. deliveries through Lend-Lease amounted to $11 billion in materials: over 400,000 jeeps and trucks; 12,000 armored vehicles (including 7,000 tanks, about 1,386[38] of which were M3 Lees and 4,102 M4 Shermans);[39] 11,400 aircraft (4,719 of which were Bell P-39 Airacobras)[40] and 1.75 million tons of food.[41]

427,284 trucks, 13,303 combat vehicles, 35,170 motorcycles, 2,328 ordnance service vehicles, 2,670,371 tons of petroleum products (gasoline and oil) or 57.8 percent of the High-octane aviation fuel, 4,478,116 tons of foodstuffs (canned meats, sugar, flour, salt, etc.), 1,911 steam locomotives, 66 Diesel locomotives, 9,920 flat cars, 1,000 dump cars, 120 tank cars, and 35 heavy machinery cars. Provided ordnance goods (ammunition, artillery shells, mines, assorted explosives) amounted to 53 percent of total domestic production.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

In short, without Murica, Soviet Union would have shortage of supplies to keep its factories running. It would not have been able to deliver supplies to its front line troops due to lack of trucks and fuel. It certainly wouldn't have been able to maintain its tank and motorized divisions. They would have to take on Germany with over ten thousand fewer aircrafts, which would have allowed the Germans to bomb them from the sky at will. Soviet workers and troops would have fought on empty stomach, and as a result, low morale. Americans sent enough fuel, weapons and supplies for the Soviets to equip 60 divisions. That's 1.8 million combat troops on the front line.

Lend-Lease wasn't just "shortening the war for a year". It was a lifeline the Soviets needed to keep its war machine running.
 
Imagine we had gone to war with Russia right after

Patton wanted to. His idea was to re-arm what was left of the Whermacht, combine that with the US troops under his command and launch a pre-emptive strike on the USSR. Patton's view was that it was better to fight Russia after they had lost so many men(and didn't have Nukes)than when they had regained their strength.
 
From Wiki:
In total, the U.S. deliveries through Lend-Lease amounted to $11 billion in materials: over 400,000 jeeps and trucks; 12,000 armored vehicles (including 7,000 tanks, about 1,386[38] of which were M3 Lees and 4,102 M4 Shermans);[39] 11,400 aircraft (4,719 of which were Bell P-39 Airacobras)[40] and 1.75 million tons of food.[41]

427,284 trucks, 13,303 combat vehicles, 35,170 motorcycles, 2,328 ordnance service vehicles, 2,670,371 tons of petroleum products (gasoline and oil) or 57.8 percent of the High-octane aviation fuel, 4,478,116 tons of foodstuffs (canned meats, sugar, flour, salt, etc.), 1,911 steam locomotives, 66 Diesel locomotives, 9,920 flat cars, 1,000 dump cars, 120 tank cars, and 35 heavy machinery cars. Provided ordnance goods (ammunition, artillery shells, mines, assorted explosives) amounted to 53 percent of total domestic production.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

In short, without Murica, Soviet Union would have shortage of supplies to keep its factories running. It would not have been able to deliver supplies to its front line troops due to lack of trucks and fuel. It certainly wouldn't have been able to maintain its tank and motorized divisions. They would have to take on Germany with over ten thousand fewer aircrafts, which would have allowed the Germans to bomb them from the sky at will. Soviet workers and troops would have fought on empty stomach, and as a result, low morale. Americans sent enough fuel, weapons and supplies for the Soviets to equip 60 divisions. That's 1.8 million combat troops on the front line.

Lend-Lease wasn't just "shortening the war for a year". It was a lifeline the Soviets needed to keep its war machine running.


dont speak logic, russian fangirls are all over the place.
 
dont speak logic, russian fangirls are all over the place.
It always amuses me that some people would think allies won on the battlefield. We won on logistics and production. For every tank, plane and ship the Axis powers built, the Allies were building 3 to 4 times as many. It was a war of attrition to see who keep the war machines running until the end. Japan and Germany simply could not keep up, and Murica was the industrial power that kept the Allies going.

Rookies talk about battles. Experts talk logistics.
 
From Wiki:
In total, the U.S. deliveries through Lend-Lease amounted to $11 billion in materials: over 400,000 jeeps and trucks; 12,000 armored vehicles (including 7,000 tanks, about 1,386[38] of which were M3 Lees and 4,102 M4 Shermans);[39] 11,400 aircraft (4,719 of which were Bell P-39 Airacobras)[40] and 1.75 million tons of food.[41]

427,284 trucks, 13,303 combat vehicles, 35,170 motorcycles, 2,328 ordnance service vehicles, 2,670,371 tons of petroleum products (gasoline and oil) or 57.8 percent of the High-octane aviation fuel, 4,478,116 tons of foodstuffs (canned meats, sugar, flour, salt, etc.), 1,911 steam locomotives, 66 Diesel locomotives, 9,920 flat cars, 1,000 dump cars, 120 tank cars, and 35 heavy machinery cars. Provided ordnance goods (ammunition, artillery shells, mines, assorted explosives) amounted to 53 percent of total domestic production.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

In short, without Murica, Soviet Union would have shortage of supplies to keep its factories running. It would not have been able to deliver supplies to its front line troops due to lack of trucks and fuel. It certainly wouldn't have been able to maintain its tank and motorized divisions. They would have to take on Germany with over ten thousand fewer aircrafts, which would have allowed the Germans to bomb them from the sky at will. Soviet workers and troops would have fought on empty stomach, and as a result, low morale. Americans sent enough fuel, weapons and supplies for the Soviets to equip 60 divisions. That's 1.8 million combat troops on the front line.

Lend-Lease wasn't just "shortening the war for a year". It was a lifeline the Soviets needed to keep its war machine running.

Wiki, niceeee!

First of all, when first Lend and Lease products arrived it was end of 1941, so literally maybe a few trucks and those incredible important motorycles came to "aid" and a tank or 2. So without Lend and Lease, with 5 milions soviet soldiers in captivity because of big encirclement fiascos Soviet did managed till end of 1941 knock out of battle 750.000 Germans soldiers. This is 1/4 of starting force.
Check your sources when did Lend and Lease started to pour in ... Guess when?? 1943. While many take stoping at moscow 1941 as defeat of Germans (they were logistically streched , fama about great german army is very exaggerated as they were still dependant on horses mostly) nobody questions that in 1942 at Stalingrad it was over for Germans. Even DAVID GLANTZ (will use him, american historian) said, that it is just a question when since then. And yes, when cutting 6 army out, destroying italians and romanians and grinding out victory at Stalingrad it wasnt locomotives nor trucks...Soviets ...
Second Russians did move all factories behind Ural in gigantic effort, factories that produced mind boggling numbers. From their materials, mostly!
Third of all the help u mentioned the only categories that were in bigger % of Soviet own production were trucks, motorcyles and locomotives. All others were around 5-10% of Russian production..

So again. Russians did the hard work in 1941 and 1942 on their own. Lend and Lease helped them speed things after that and also prevented quite a few more deaths but victory was bloody and solely theirs.

So your premise about supplies is wrong. And i see you used food again. So will copy that also from another thread

1.FROM JUNE 22 1941 TO JUNE 30 1943 Lend and lease provided around 1,3 milion tons of food. LETS MAKE IT ROUND 1,5 milion tons. By adding another 200.000 tons u give me Kurks battle (1 more month and i give u much bigger month average), where everyoooneee knows Russia won the war against Germany, it remains only question how much more time...

2. Soviet Union population in 1937 was around 170 milions. In 1941-43 unoccupied territories had majority of this number, around 120 m probably. But for MYTH lets take it was 100 milion people who were possible receivers of Lend and lease food.

OK LETS DO MATH...

1,5 milion tons of food=1,5 bilion kg of food
Lets divide this by 100.000.000 milion people...We get 15 kilos of food on one person . So every person in 750 (2 years plus one month, lets make it round) days received 15 kilos of food.

Lets divide this 15kilos/750 days= 0,02 kg of food/per day...20 GRAMS.
So by providing daily 20 grams of food by Lend and LEASE USA saved Soviet Union from starvation??? But lets take it further

Lets say that only army and children and VIP person received this food. One in fifth. So this is 20gramsx5...It is 100grams of food daily. Lets take it is SPAM. 100 grams of spam is around 300 calories.


https://books.google.si/books?id=gMNlerxYVuwC&pg=PA222&lpg=PA222&dq=calorie+diet+ww2+soviet&source=bl&ots=rOe26OykK9&sig=Yo-in8fdUdFiEfIYdD_Xn3k1QfU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLx7-oj5zUAhWsK5oKHeQsA2YQ6AEIYzAI#v=onepage&q=calorie diet ww2 soviet&f=false

American source again. (look table 12.2 page 221) Calorie consumption of Soviets in 1942 was around 2500 (which is around 25% less that prewar time). Soldiers were going well over 3000. So if soldiers were receivers lend and lease provided 10% of their calorie needs. If we make it that all received equally and take that the average consumption was 2500 (lowest value) ...20 grams of spam is around 60 calories. But lets take it 100 calories. 100/2500..4% of calorie consumed...

I don't know why we argue . Majority of people think sexy brad Pitts defeated Germans anyway. And then are "educated" americans who say well Soviets did some work, but it was because of Lend and Lease :)...So have it your way , no point anymore :)
 
I think they lost almost 10% of their entire population during the war.

Just over 15%, over 16,000,000. Like 1 million died just in the Battle of Stalingrad. Brutal, cold deaths millions of Russians endured.

More % wise, and as much if not more to do with Stalin then the wehrmacht.

You dont know what you're talking about if you credit the deaths in World War 2 to Stalin, and not the axis war machine.
 
USSR definitely killed the most, but Hitler was the reason for their losses. He went against his advisers time and time again. If anyone spoke against him he would replace them. The guy was not a very military minded person.
 
Wiki, niceeee!

First of all, when first Lend and Lease products arrived it was end of 1941, so literally maybe a few trucks and those incredible important motorycles came to "aid" and a tank or 2. So without Lend and Lease, with 5 milions soviet soldiers in captivity because of big encirclement fiascos Soviet did managed till end of 1941 knock out of battle 750.000 Germans soldiers. This is 1/4 of starting force.
Check your sources when did Lend and Lease started to pour in ... Guess when?? 1943. While many take stoping at moscow 1941 as defeat of Germans (they were logistically streched , fama about great german army is very exaggerated as they were still dependant on horses mostly) nobody questions that in 1942 at Stalingrad it was over for Germans. Even DAVID GLANTZ (will use him, american historian) said, that it is just a question when since then. And yes, when cutting 6 army out, destroying italians and romanians and grinding out victory at Stalingrad it wasnt locomotives nor trucks...Soviets ...
Second Russians did move all factories behind Ural in gigantic effort, factories that produced mind boggling numbers. From their materials, mostly!
Third of all the help u mentioned the only categories that were in bigger % of Soviet own production were trucks, motorcyles and locomotives. All others were around 5-10% of Russian production..

So again. Russians did the hard work in 1941 and 1942 on their own. Lend and Lease helped them speed things after that and also prevented quite a few more deaths but victory was bloody and solely theirs.

So your premise about supplies is wrong. And i see you used food again. So will copy that also from another thread

1.FROM JUNE 22 1941 TO JUNE 30 1943 Lend and lease provided around 1,3 milion tons of food. LETS MAKE IT ROUND 1,5 milion tons. By adding another 200.000 tons u give me Kurks battle (1 more month and i give u much bigger month average), where everyoooneee knows Russia won the war against Germany, it remains only question how much more time...

2. Soviet Union population in 1937 was around 170 milions. In 1941-43 unoccupied territories had majority of this number, around 120 m probably. But for MYTH lets take it was 100 milion people who were possible receivers of Lend and lease food.

OK LETS DO MATH...

1,5 milion tons of food=1,5 bilion kg of food
Lets divide this by 100.000.000 milion people...We get 15 kilos of food on one person . So every person in 750 (2 years plus one month, lets make it round) days received 15 kilos of food.

Lets divide this 15kilos/750 days= 0,02 kg of food/per day...20 GRAMS.
So by providing daily 20 grams of food by Lend and LEASE USA saved Soviet Union from starvation??? But lets take it further

Lets say that only army and children and VIP person received this food. One in fifth. So this is 20gramsx5...It is 100grams of food daily. Lets take it is SPAM. 100 grams of spam is around 300 calories.


https://books.google.si/books?id=gMNlerxYVuwC&pg=PA222&lpg=PA222&dq=calorie+diet+ww2+soviet&source=bl&ots=rOe26OykK9&sig=Yo-in8fdUdFiEfIYdD_Xn3k1QfU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLx7-oj5zUAhWsK5oKHeQsA2YQ6AEIYzAI#v=onepage&q=calorie diet ww2 soviet&f=false

American source again. (look table 12.2 page 221) Calorie consumption of Soviets in 1942 was around 2500 (which is around 25% less that prewar time). Soldiers were going well over 3000. So if soldiers were receivers lend and lease provided 10% of their calorie needs. If we make it that all received equally and take that the average consumption was 2500 (lowest value) ...20 grams of spam is around 60 calories. But lets take it 100 calories. 100/2500..4% of calorie consumed...

I don't know why we argue . Majority of people think sexy brad Pitts defeated Germans anyway. And then are "educated" americans who say well Soviets did some work, but it was because of Lend and Lease :)...So have it your way , no point anymore :)
Thats pretty inciteful. now dig up some info on THIS. Where was Russias Train mobility coming from that allowed them to basically chase the German army all the way from moscow to berlin. Soviet Rolling stock was almost entirely lend lease in origin. Their entire chain of mobility depended upon the west. All well and good to blunt the Wehrmact in Stalingrad. means nothing if your own industry is barely 19th century and you'd have to horse and boot it across the continent. The Germans werent particularly mobile as far as American standards go but they were a damn site better than the USSR prior to uncle sam basically doing all the heavy lifting...literally....on rail and road.
 
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