Which branch is superior - The Air Force or The Navy?

Discussion in 'Mayberry Lounge' started by Agent Mulder's Hair, Apr 2, 2018.

  1. X-Pac Rules

    X-Pac Rules MAKE SOME NOISE.

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    It's funny, because ONE person on a Reddit (lol) thread said "they may have gone a couple of days without sleep but couldn't remember" that he takes that as "proof" of his claim that Air Force basic is the hardest training in the military. All this from someone who supposedly doesn't care what we think. :D
     
  2. Phr3121

    Phr3121 Brown Belt Platinum Member

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    Indeed. Well, the guy has some serious issues. Has to prove everyone wrong and change their opinions. I was surprised by some of the comments on Reddit regarding how the U.S. Air Force runs things in basic. Trainees forgotten at the airport, trainees having to make their own way to basic training, TIs calling trainees worthless, etc. Standing at attention in the rain for hours. Sounds unprofessional to me.

    I don't recall my Drill Sergeants calling our Platoon (or individual trainees) names during basic training (i.e. worthless, sons-of-bitches, motherfucker, etc.). They were all very professional. They would 'roast' individual trainees who were fucking up, but that was rare too. Instead of insults, they would make us do push-ups. Lots and lots of fucking push-ups. Worst than being insulted. I guess we as a bunch were smarter about the whole thing. Name calling by instructors in U.S. Army schools has not been allowed for years now. Not even in Ranger school. Not sure about the U.S. Marines.
     
  3. mmaelitefan000

    mmaelitefan000 Brown Belt

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    navy, they're always out at sea susceptible to enemy attacks.
     
  4. Cint

    Cint Titanium Belt Platinum Member

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  5. SMillard

    SMillard Red Belt

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    Well my first interservice experiences were with Navy and Marine personnel at Fort Gordon which is I'm sure you already know the home of the army signal corps, at that time in 87/88 they were introducing some new commo gear I think it was called "VINSON or VINSEN" that was some of the first (I believe, not 100% sure since I wasn't in the training program) digital encrypted systems instead of having to hook up the encoding device to the old PRC systems. Certain people from my AIT class were selected to go through the training, it was basically everyone that was being assigned to Ft Hood, some Marines and some sailors were there for it as well. The Navy people were fairly low key, some of the Marines liked to throw their dicks around and start fights, but that was squashed pretty quick. My impression of the Marines (during service, after service I met some real morons) wasn't so much that they were dumb, just they really drank the kool aid, I understand interservice rivalry but taking it to the point of trying to pick fights with people during duty hours was just stupid, saw it at Gordon and saw it at jumps school. The Marines are a fine branch and their infantry battalions and MEU I'd put on par with Ranger battalions, I just thought it was funny to find some POGs acting like he's Chesty Puller himself.

    The second was in jump school, in which you meet everyone from everywhere, also met people from other countries that were in jump school and at the time the School of the Americas was still in operation. In fact during zero week one of the post duties I had to perform was cleaning up the barracks at the SOTA, lets just say lots of porn mags, and packaging for knives and guns that they must have smuggled back home. One group of SEAL candidates were even kicked out at jump week for vandalism of some of the murals around the airborne barracks. Really dumb move, go through all that training to screw it up like that. The Marines again, liked to start shit, instead of recovering with "Airborne" after doing push ups they'd yell "Sempre Fi" and the black hats would mess with them even more. I think I even told a story before how one Marine picked a fight with a little guy that turned out to be an excellent boxer, so you can imagine how that fight went.
    The entire time I was in I was in the 18th airborne corps, but assigned to 8" artillery units (two- 1/14th and the 7/9th) which have no real practical airborne applications and we were never jump units, so I never understood why we were in the 18th, basically we were treated almost like a spare parts depot or fill ins when we weren't shooting the big guns. I think all the guns were sold the Egypt shortly after I got out as they were phasing out the 8" artillery guns, or so I was told. I was even told that the two units I was in were the last two 8" artillery units in the army. I hated being in an artillery unit as a commo guy, basically running telephone wire all the time.
    As for interaction with other groups first at Ft Stewart which has the Ranger battalion out of Hunter army airfield which is in Savannah and Stewart being about 20 to 30 minutes away by beautiful scenic Hinesville (or as we called it Hineyville because it was the ass of the world), We did some things with the Ranger battalion, had a couple times had to run commo relays (again this was back in the late 80's/early 90's so it was the old UHF radio antennas to boost radio signals, I'm sure all this stuff is about as relevant as horse drawn carriages at this point), we also did coordinated drills with the Ranger battalion, occasionally some other units especially the military intelligence group out of Stewart. In a couple instances they used SEALs as the OPFOR, again they were really good at ambush but were not that strong at setting up defensive perimeters, as discussed with a lot of the Rangers. I'm sure a lot of that has changed since then especially with active combat experience. I also did some consulting on a few industrial diving jobs which were at Navy installations (this was after I got out late 90's and 2000) where the commercial divers all related stories how they were shocked at how the SEALS as divers were not as strong as they had expected, again it may have been a matter of reality over expectations. My final stint was at Bragg, which you basically almost couldn't throw a rock without hitting a SF guy and again I explained the FO encounter with the Marines and Air Force FACs with the laser designator (it was in its infancy back then and yes it impressed the hell out of me enough to think "I joined the wrong branch"). So that's how I had so much experience with the interservice groups.

    As far as the "dumb" people in the army, remember I served in artillery units, I was also in regrettably the lowest level commo MOS (which at the time was 31K "combat signaler" or wire dog, I scored a 124 on the ASVAB at that time, was told I could do any job in the army and I chose that, I ended up being an honor graduate and I didn't do anything out of the ordinary or apply myself). When it came time for the annual MOS aptitude test I and one specialist scored higher than our whole unit of 31Ks including the NCOs and I'd only been in about a year and a half. Sadly our "top scores" were in the mid 80's. When I was in gun bunny, cook and "petroleum specialist" were to the best of my knowledge the only jobs you could get in the army without a GED/HS diploma. The rule was you had either six months or a year (I didn't have to worry about it so I didn't really pay attention) to get your GED. I was always assigned to HQ batteries, so you had the lowest intelligent combat MOS 13B, in a unit which had all the cooks, petroleum specialists, mechanics, medics and clerical people as well as commo and I was with the lowest on the totem pole of the commo people. Hence why I say I experienced a lot of dumb people in the army. Hell you might even say I was one of them by the company I kept.
    I will say the SF guys were some of the ones that surprised me the most, I was expecting the stereotypical "badass" but when I was at Bragg and met a few of them, they were almost military nerds, definitely in good shape and bad asses but really technically proficient. They knew the spec books inside out, I remember sitting with two of them as they discussed the specifications of a Hellfire missile, all I could think was I've never even seen one of these, I just hope it has the little arrow pointing which end the missile comes out like the LAW rockets.

    I did try to stay in, but wanted a different MOS, at that time they would only let me change to 13B, petroleum specialist or cook. So i opted out, at that time the only other service that was taking prior service was the Marines. I never thought to explore it again until around 9/11 but I had gotten engaged at that point, my soon to be wife had lost her job and I decided to stay with her instead, sometimes I regret it but often not after the whole WMD fiasco in Iraq and some of the things I saw there.
     
  6. SMillard

    SMillard Red Belt

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    One time we were mobilized and you knew shit was real when they handed out the bayonets. Turned out it was a drill. Once we got back the battalion CO asked "so how many of you cut yourself with your bayonets?" Turns out one lieutenant did out of a whole battalion. There probably would have been more of us that had cut ourselves except were under strict orders to not unsheath them. I couldn't even tell you what the blade looked like.
    The only other time we were issued bayonets was when there was a change of base commanders, we'd have to march past the outgoing and incoming generals with fixed bayonets. Then we all had to stand in formation while the two gave speeches. Always heard stories of guys falling out and slashing other people. Never saw it myself but it was enough to make you nervous having a bunch of guys standing around with something sharp and pointy less than an arm's length away.
     
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  7. SMillard

    SMillard Red Belt

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    The only issue I had during basic was my basic was right around when the movie "Full Metal Jacket" came out and every drill sergeant wanted to be Gunny Hartman. A couple of the female instructors definitely had an axe to grind and we had one 2nd Lt that was pretty abusive, but overall the DSs were alright as long as you were squared away. I would say overall, it was just some individuals that were abusive but I never saw anything done about it by their peers. Maybe it was corrected on the following cycle though, don't know.
     
  8. Cint

    Cint Titanium Belt Platinum Member

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    Great story. @SMillard

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. SMillard

    SMillard Red Belt

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    One more complimentary thing I will say about the Air Force, when I was shipping out from MEPS they split the room by each service in a corner. The army side there were about 12 or 14 of us, all guys. The Navy side was about five guys with two girls and rest guys, the Marines had about five, all guys. The air force was about 12 people, one guy and the rest all women. That son of a bitch had the biggest smile on his face I've ever seen.
     
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  10. Cint

    Cint Titanium Belt Platinum Member

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    My friend is going through a divorce right now. He's retired from the Army and receiving disability compensation. I believe the divorce rates are higher for military personnel. @SMillard
     
  11. SMillard

    SMillard Red Belt

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    it definitely is.
    There is the old saying the hardest job in the military is the military spouse. Then again, I've seen too many time where the biggest ho-bags were military spouses.

    I had a friend recently, he and his girlfriend are both nurses, she decided to go back to school to become an anesthetist. It was pretty pricey and you have to do an unpaid internship. Well after she graduated they moved up to Massachusetts since that was where she found a job (since they have the school down here, the job market is more competitive). Anyway, to help with the student loans she joined the reserves. All was going good until she ended up getting deployed to Afghanistan. She was supposed to be gone for six months, then she told my friend that the person that was to replace her didn't qualify with their weapon so she was told that she could either extend her deployment or she'd have to come back within a year. So she said she'd stay. Well apparently she was stationed at a forward base or something (didn't get all the details) with a sizable SF detachment stationed there. Well my friend found out she was cheating on him when she accidentally sent him a "dear John" email that she meant to send to another guy. Basically she was boinking one green beret that rotated back and she was breaking up with him by letting him know she hooked up with one of his friends, but accidentally sent it to my friend. After he emailed her back about her "mistake" she told him she'd decided to go active duty and wanted him to make arrangements to send her one of their dogs.

    The guy moved back to South Florida as soon as he found out. He has bought a ring and everything for when she got back, had to sell that thing, one thing I found out the resale market for diamonds sucks or he got taken when he first bought the ring.
     
  12. Cint

    Cint Titanium Belt Platinum Member

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    My friend's living in Georgia with her husband who received orders to move to Germany. She didn't want to leave so her husband left her with their young son. I remember talking to her and could hear the sadness in her voice. And no I didn't bang her.
     
  13. SMillard

    SMillard Red Belt

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    I'll tall you the same thing I told my friend after he moved back and told me his story. Things happen, I have no room to judge with some of the crap I've done.
     
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  14. Mr Mojo Lane

    Mr Mojo Lane Brown Belt

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    There has been a few thread on women around military bases or in the military lately. The women are ridiculously outnumbered by men and this girl is away from her boyfriend for a long period of time. Guys need to be realistic
     
  15. SMillard

    SMillard Red Belt

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    I told him that, I tried to explain it to him that he shouldn't beat himself or her up over it.

    I remember walking into "clubs" in Hinesville and Fayetteville that were a joke. You'd see 250lbs plus beasts being picky.

    I also remember seeing spouses going to the e club and NCO club wearing t-shirts that would have "my husband is deployed for _____ days" and they'd write in the number of days the husband would be gone. There were always cases of domestic violence due to a husband finding out. When I was at jump school there was rumor about a husband came home found his wife with another guy and he killed them both. I was on CQ duty when the call came in about it, but it didn't involve any of our people so I didn't get to follow through to see if it were true, but there were plenty of stories like that floating around.

    I remember we had one female drill sergeant that literally had a beard, she had hair growing on her damn chin, she was disgusting. She thought she was the hottest thing ever, she'd walk by us in really short shorts making comments "get a good look, this is the closest y'all are gonna get to something this fine".
     
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  16. Cint

    Cint Titanium Belt Platinum Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Phr3121

    Phr3121 Brown Belt Platinum Member

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    @SMillard, I'm reading your other post and will reply shortly.

    No, this does not happen in the U.S. Army. Non-deployment due to failure in weapons qualification, APFT, and weight. The girl was lying. If it did, 50% of soldiers, or more, would have never deployed. Pregnancy, security clearance, and not being MOS qualified will keep you from a deployment though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  18. Phr3121

    Phr3121 Brown Belt Platinum Member

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    How did you join the U.S. Army without a GED in the late 80s? I think you will find most of the inter-service rivalry in the lower enlisted ranks. I'm a 'leg' Ranger, so I skipped Airborne school. I've spent time in the National Guard, Reserves, and Active Duty. Time at Ft. Benning, Ft. Bragg, and Ft. Hood, also USMLO Brazil, and USSOUTHCOM.

    Yes, the Army tends to 'lock' you in your MOS when on Active Duty. You should have tried the AGR program, it would have allowed you to change MOS. You sound like a bright guy who should have been doing something more productive, but still, 'commo' stuff (Signal Corps) and Artillery are definitely 'intellectual' branches. Setting up and using radios is not exactly all that easy, not for me anyway, and mortars and artillery definitely take into account a lot of math and calculations. I did an exercise as a Mortar Platoon Leader one summer and I was just blown away how smart those enlisted guys were in putting a round on target. Most soldiers don't realize how much calculation goes into hitting a target from a few miles away. I'm sure with the technology we have today things are much easier.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  19. SMillard

    SMillard Red Belt

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    I was amazed, but back then 13B, cooks and petroleum speciallists could join without a GED, like i said you had finite amount of time to get one. During one of the education cycles I ended up helping a guy 13B study for his. I'm pretty sure that phased out pretty quick, but back then the biggest issue seemed to be making sure you weren't gay or smoked weed. I remember getting asked that at least four times during recruitment up to MEPS.
    You're right, most of the interservice crap was lower level ranks and quite honestly was worse with POG MOSs.

    I didn't know if they still had leg Rangers, I thought they were phasing that out. I had a friend at jump school that was a leg Ranger he was in a reserve unit dude was a trip. I don't think he did one morning run, he was always by me in the morning formation, we'd all start marching out to PT and when we got to the PT field he'd be gone then we'd be marching back to the barracks for breakfast and he'd be back in formation. To this day I still don't know how he was so stealthy in a formation and all the black hats. In my jump school class also had a Marine NCO that was Ranger tabbed (sewed his tab under the flap on his breast pocket) he was a pretty impressive guy, very squared away.

    When you were in USSOUTHCOM did you ever make it down to Homestead air base or ws after they moved it after Hurricane Andrew?

    I did do some time in the reserve, and was basically switched on my MOS to artillery survey since they needed someone with commo experience and I had worked as a land surveyor as a civilian at that point. That wasn't too bad, if it weren't for changing careers in civilian life to environmental consulting I'd have probably stayed on.

    The commo I did was mostly running telephone wire, setting up the TA phones and stuff like that. We did do some set up of the aerial antennas, relays and handle the encryption vault. Which at the time was distributing the encryption devices and handing out the code books. I ended up working in the encryption vault at my first duty station since the one guy that did it screwed up a bunch of the books. I didn't understand how he did it, all you had to do was put the pages in numerical order.... page 1, followed by page 2 followed by page 3. It was one of those things so simple that I didn't understand how the guy screwed it up and thought "am I doing this right? The fact that I was one of the "smarter guys" did get me a lot of chances to do different things when it came to supporting other units, simply because the NCOs didn't want to get embarrassed. It can't be this simple" simple facts were our MOS was considered the "special ed" group of the commo world, the other commo guys pretty much looked down on us.

    I have no experience with mortar platoons but I would think they were a lot more autonomous than your average big gun guy. They relied on the artillery survey people to tell them where to put the gun and even which direction to point it. They had the FIST guys give them all the info. I'm sure the NCOs were fairly sharp, although I wasn't 100% convinced after seeing some of the crap some of them pulled.

    As far as the technology now, yeah I'm sure I'd be blown away. My MOS was called 31K but now 31K is a dog handler or something like that from what I've heard. When I started doing the artillery survey the army had just integrated the PADS system for setting up the gun instead of using the old transit and measuring tape. I'm sure now with GPS the PADS seems like stone tablets.

    i figured that was BS, I think she just wanted to stay on due to the guy she was shacked up with. I never told my friend that. Why rub salt in the wound.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  20. Phr3121

    Phr3121 Brown Belt Platinum Member

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    Did not know that about the GED requirement. What I do know is that getting your GED today is much harder than it was in the late 80s. I joined the U.S. Army through the National Guard when I graduated from college. I enlisted as a PFC. After completion of OCS I had the chance to go to Ranger school. Airborne and Ranger school slots were limited, and if you were a recycle, you got sent home, not join up with the next class. All do to funding. Those of us who were not Airborne qualified rode the trucks to where the other guys who would do an airdrop would land. That gave us a chance to break open some MREs and get some sleep. A few of my friends on Active Duty from IOBC who were Airborne qualified never jumped again after Airborne school. Air Assault with helicopters was more practical and safe.

    I remember being asked about the use of drugs during MEPS, but not about being gay. We had the 'Don't ask don't tell' policy in effect. Ranger school now is open to all MOSs and women. When I went through it, you had to be Infantry, 11B, plus we had Desert Phase which added another week to the whole process. Desert Phase was phased out, but that was the 'commo' phase of Ranger school.

    Yes I did. That is where I had a chance to meet some U.S. Navy SEALs. By then my MOS was 38A, Civil Affairs. So, overall, I spent about 8 years on Active Duty and 12 years in the National Guard and the Reserves. One deployment to Iraq. I have to say I enjoyed my time in the Army. Met and worked with some amazing soldiers, both enlisted and officers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
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