When does white privilege kick in?

[nostradumbass]

Don't worry. I already reported him....twice

I think that's a chick.

 

[Islam Imamate]

If we're talking about just America you might be kind of right.

You have a personal experience you're talking about?

Actually no, I've only had pleasant experiences with cops. But I think its because I live in a pretty sleepy area and I'm not exactly a very threatening guy. Also I'm not black so that helps.

My opinion on this is based off more on what I've read about the issue. I think the people who argue in favor of white privilege sometimes don't do enough due diligence in really sticking to what the data says and arguing only what they can prove but at the same time I think there's truth to their general argument.

 

[Islam Imamate]

1. White privilege is often just a debate ender. It's an intellectual sounding way of saying "shut up".

Even though I think there's truth to the idea of WP I will say this is also true to a large extent and its not an appropriate way to really address the issue.

2. When I hear people seriously talking about white privilege or male privilege, I generally assume they are a racist or sexist themselves. People should not be judged on their race or their sex, but on the content of their character.

Its not about judging individuals though, its about noticing the aggregate impact of prejudice on certain populations relative to others. To say that an individual benefits from white and/or male privilege isn't to say anything about them but rather about the way society perceives them.

 

[WTF2008]

Actually no, I've only had pleasant experiences with cops. But I think its because I live in a pretty sleepy area and I'm not exactly a very threatening guy. Also I'm not black so that helps.

My opinion on this is based off more on what I've read about the issue. I think the people who argue in favor of white privilege sometimes don't do enough due diligence in really sticking to what the data says and arguing only what they can prove but at the same time I think there's truth to their general argument.

We're all going by what we read which is our first mistake. There's always an agenda in the media on both sides.

I'd take that cop's personal experience over what we've read but I also live in a sleepy town.

If he was a cop here or there, his opinions might be different.

But there are some areas where black people are more likely to be violent criminals and other areas where whites are more likely to be violent criminals.

 

[Islam Imamate]

We're all going by what we read which is our first mistake. There's always an agenda in the media on both sides.

I'd take that cop's personal experience over what we've read but I also live in a sleepy town.

If he was a cop here or there, his opinions might be different.

But there are some areas where black people are more likely to be violent criminals and other areas where whites are more likely to be violent criminals.

Personally I don't think anecdotal evidence is all that valuable, far to prone to human error. I'd rather take a more empirical approach. I'll take a cop's word on how he does his job but not for much else and certainly not over an empirical perspective.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Its not about judging individuals though, its about noticing the aggregate impact of prejudice on certain populations relative to others. To say that an individual benefits from white and/or male privilege isn't to say anything about them but rather about the way society perceives them.

Yep, and once we stop judging individuals and venture into the realm of judging population groups, in this case racial populations, you can see why it goes badly so quickly. "White privilege" is a gateway drug to full blown racism. It gives people cover to vent their racial frustrations, and I see much more of this than I see people trying to use the concept to discuss race and prejudice in a constructive way.

Additionally, I think an honest assessment of privilege in the US would not lead one to believe that whites are privileged but to see that blacks in the US are underprivileged. Other racial minorities thrive in the US.

 

[nhbbear]

Its not just that though that's part of the feedback loop. To put it really simply as a white person you're more likely to be given the benefit of the doubt in an entire host of interactions across a plethora of institutions.

Let's take the police example which is among the most controversial. I pick it though because you yourself claim to be a cop and also plainly admit you don't give blacks the same benefit of the doubt.

so a black person who isn't poor and runs into a cop like you at the wrong place at the wrong time might have some assumptions made about him that an equally well off white person wouldn't. Interactions with cops can have lasting consequences on one's life so this disparity in the benefit of the doubt can make all the difference.

I tend to base my opinions on more than just race. The location that i May encounter a subject, the time of day/night, under what circumstances i am encountering this subject, the way they are dressed, and their body language-very important, as their posture gives clues to attitude and mental status

I drive around a lot during a typical shift, and I see a lot of different kinds of people. I don’t drive by a black person and scutinize them any more closely than a white person, but their behavior as i drive by can be an indicator as to what they are up to. My presence often causes young black males to suddenly need to spit on the sidewalk, for example, which may get my attention. Black or white, attempting to turn away to try and hide their face is an indicator, especially when driving. I would say that if someone does that when they are driving, there is a good chance that they are suspended or have something illegal in the vehicle.

I know most of the people that one in my profession would need to know, but let’s say I see someone i dont recognize, I will do a quick assessment using my experience and some of the factors above to determine if this is someone I should take note of. I am well past the point in my career where I am going to stop and id someone, but i do the assessment all the same, and will probably always do that, long after my cop days are done.

 

[High Altitude]

This is a silly question I’ll explain.

White privileged isn’t some magical privilege where white peoples lives are automatically easier.

It just means that you are free of the negative stereotypes that affect certain other races because by and large white people are more successful than other races.

I am a black male. A disproportionately high amount of black males are criminals. Therefore I can often be sometimes victimized and assumed to be a criminal based on the actions of my peers. I can’t go out and force other black people to act right.

You are just free of that stigma.

It’s really not the same as people thinking you’re a thief or gangbanger,

But to be honest I have nothing to complain about. A black person growing up in Canada has more opportunity than 95 percent of the people on planet earth.

On top of that, even amongst fellow black people they call you priveleged for being lighter skinned, lol.

It’s a petty argument. Everyone is more priveleged than someone else.

Careful, if you keep explaining this stuff in a rational and honest way you are one step away from uncle tom status.

 

[High Altitude]

From my experience, there is rich privilege, people in powerful roles privilege, dress and act nice privilege, we value education privilege, and it comes in all colors.

For a couple years I use to get pulled over all the time. I am talking weekly and harassed. One big giant pain in the ass. I had long hair, drove a shitty car, was in nice neighborhoods at the time etc..... Not one time did they walk up to me and say, oh shit, your white, I'm sorry, go ahead and leave.

As soon as I cut the hair and got a nice car, what do you know, never pulled over and harassed.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I tend to base my opinions on more than just race. The location that i May encounter a subject, the time of day/night, under what circumstances i am encountering this subject, the way they are dressed, and their body language-very important, as their posture gives clues to attitude and mental status

I drive around a lot during a typical shift, and I see a lot of different kinds of people. I don’t drive by a black person and scutinize them any more closely than a white person, but their behavior as i drive by can be an indicator as to what they are up to. My presence often causes young black males to suddenly need to spit on the sidewalk, for example, which may get my attention. Black or white, attempting to turn away to try and hide their face is an indicator, especially when driving. I would say that if someone does that when they are driving, there is a good chance that they are suspended or have something illegal in the vehicle.

I know most of the people that one in my profession would need to know, but let’s say I see someone i dont recognize, I will do a quick assessment using my experience and some of the factors above to determine if this is someone I should take note of. I am well past the point in my career where I am going to stop and id someone, but i do the assessment all the same, and will probably always do that, long after my cop days are done.

Oh I'm sure you don't go out hunting down black guys, that's not how prejudice often works nowadays. Like I said, its more than you would, in your won words, be less likely to give a black guy the benefit of the doubt. Which is why I said in my first post that if a black person was at the wrong place, at the wrong time they might have some assumptions made about them by a cop like you.

Here you mentioned that the location and time of day of the encounter matters. So a middle class black guy might not stick out to you in one neighborhood in the day but the same guy in a different neighborhood at a different time of day might draw your suspicion in a way that a white person might not.

 

[D3THRONED]

Is that accurate though?

Much of the infrastructure the world over has been built decades ago by very poor migrant Chinese workers. They are dispersed all through the caribbean and N.America and lived in relatively poorer areas (various China towns).

Or are you referring to the mostly latter stages of typically very wealthy, upper class Chinese that are buying their way into countries and taking over the educational institutions?

Average salary and % per capita in degrees. Asians out perform everyone.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Average salary and % per capita in degrees. Asians out perform everyone.

Based on what statistics though? Are you counting stats that count those from India as Asian's? Does this including the mass numbers of impoverished in CHina and India in the per capita numbers or is it only a look at the Asians who make it to the first world and who are generally the most privileged from those countries.

 

[nhbbear]

Oh I'm sure you don't go out hunting down black guys, that's not how prejudice often works nowadays. Like I said, its more than you would, in your won words, be less likely to give a black guy the benefit of the doubt. Which is why I said in my first post that if a black person was at the wrong place, at the wrong time they might have some assumptions made about them by a cop like you.

Here you mentioned that the location and time of day of the encounter matters. So a middle class black guy might not stick out to you in one neighborhood in the day but the same guy in a different neighborhood at a different time of day might draw your suspicion in a way that a white person might not.

I can’t quite tell if your pokes and jabs are malevolent or not. You keep saying “a cop like you” and I am trying to figure out if that means a cop, or specifically a cop similar to me, personally.

I will assume and address the latter. I am overly honest in my opinions and feelings. I have to hold my tongue in the real world, but that is not the case here, in a forum where very few people know more than what is on my profile page. But I choose to let it fly-within the confines of this forum.

So that honesty is sometimes to my detriment. I could easily just say that I don’t see any difference when it comes to race and policing, but that would be dishonest. Above all, i want to be clear on something: I am not a racist person and I am not a racist police officer. But there is no way in sixteen years as a Leo, with all that experience, that I can’t look at someone and make a judgment based on all that experience. I don’t know whether it hurts or helps that I know almost everyone, meaning i know who is into criminal activity and who is not.

Where this comes to race and policing as simply as I can put it is this: I am estimating here, but there have probably been about thirty murders in this city during my career. Shootings and shots fired in the hundreds. In all that time, only one of those murders was not committed by a black male, and it was just last month that a white male murdered his ex. But the twenty something other murders and almost every shooting were committed by black males. We have recovered hundreds of firearms from black males, maybe in the thousands.

Now if you think for one second that those facts do not enter my thought process, you would be incorrect. That does not mean that I think every black male is armed, but i know that statistically, that I am going to encounter an armed subject, he will likely be a black male. So my level of caution in certain circumstances is going to be heightened when dealing with suspected gang members that are almost exclusively black.

So, tell me if I have said something that you feel is wrong. I mean that, honesty is important. I am not trying to be argumentative, just opening up an opportunity for an honest discourse on this important topic
Thoughts?

 

[Islam Imamate]

I can’t quite tell if your pokes and jabs are malevolent or not. You keep saying “a cop like you” and I am trying to figure out if that means a cop, or specifically a cop similar to me, personally.

I will assume and address the latter. I am overly honest in my opinions and feelings. I have to hold my tongue in the real world, but that is not the case here, in a forum where very few people know more than what is on my profile page. But I choose to let it fly-within the confines of this forum.

I keep saying a cop like you because you have admitted that you would be less likely to give a black male the benefit of the doubt in certain situations given certain circumstances. So yeah it comes off as a bit cunty I'll admit but I'm trying to keep this discussion grounded in what you have conceded rather than making assumptions about hypothetical cops which could more easily be dismissed. In your case I have the unique value of getting inside your head since you're giving us your thoughts whereas with other cops, even in high profile incidents, we're all left having to assume what was going inside the cops mind. I hope that makes sense.

So that honesty is sometimes to my detriment. I could easily just say that I don’t see any difference when it comes to race and policing, but that would be dishonest. Above all, i want to be clear on something: I am not a racist person and I am not a racist police officer. But there is no way in sixteen years as a Leo, with all that experience, that I can’t look at someone and make a judgment based on all that experience. I don’t know whether it hurts or helps that I know almost everyone, meaning i know who is into criminal activity and who is not.

Where this comes to race and policing as simply as I can put it is this: I am estimating here, but there have probably been about thirty murders in this city during my career. Shootings and shots fired in the hundreds. In all that time, only one of those murders was not committed by a black male, and it was just last month that a white male murdered his ex. But the twenty something other murders and almost every shooting were committed by black males. We have recovered hundreds of firearms from black males, maybe in the thousands.

Now if you think for one second that those facts do not enter my thought process, you would be incorrect. That does not mean that I think every black male is armed, but i know that statistically, that I am going to encounter an armed subject, he will likely be a black male. So my level of caution in certain circumstances is going to be heightened when dealing with suspected gang members that are almost exclusively black.

So, tell me if I have said something that you feel is wrong. I mean that, honesty is important. I am not trying to be argumentative, just opening up an opportunity for an honest discourse on this important topic
Thoughts?

To be clear, I don't think you're a dirty cop nor do I think you're a racist one. Racism implies the conscious belief that one race is inferior to another and I have no reason to think you hold such a view.

What you're conceding here is prejudice, in that you prejudge someone based on a certain factor(in this case race) in certain circumstances absent all the relevant information. We all do this to some extent even if its not on the basis of race. In your case, you're arguing its justified based on the crime stats. I can concede that, to a certain extent, its a defensible argument.

But regardless of that, my point here is to show you that having to deal with this prejudice is something that blacks have to deal with that whites don't and that its separate from the economic challenges that the black community faces. A middle class black male in the wrong place at the wrong time might run into a cop like you; a well meaning and not racist cop who nonetheless might make some assumptions about this black male that he wouldn't have otherwise made if it was a white male.

White privilege is partly about not having to deal with this kind of racial prejudice. Open racism is relatively rare nowadays, most of the time the prejudice comes from people not unlike you. People who aren't consciously racist, who are otherwise decent people, but nonetheless are prone to making certain assumptions based on race, consciously or unconsciously. When that prejudice comes from otherwise well meaning cops, teachers, or employers those assumptions can have lasting consequences.

 

[machidafan99]

when they pick teams for ice hockey

 

[WTF2008]

when they pick teams for ice hockey

Now you're just being racist. We all know that all races can ice skate equally well.

 

[WTF2008]

I keep saying a cop like you because you have admitted that you would be less likely to give a black male the benefit of the doubt in certain situations given certain circumstances. So yeah it comes off as a bit cunty I'll admit but I'm trying to keep this discussion grounded in what you have conceded rather than making assumptions about hypothetical cops which could more easily be dismissed. In your case I have the unique value of getting inside your head since you're giving us your thoughts whereas with other cops, even in high profile incidents, we're all left having to assume what was going inside the cops mind. I hope that makes sense.

To be clear, I don't think you're a dirty cop nor do I think you're a racist one. Racism implies the conscious belief that one race is inferior to another and I have no reason to think you hold such a view.

What you're conceding here is prejudice, in that you prejudge someone based on a certain factor(in this case race) in certain circumstances absent all the relevant information. We all do this to some extent even if its not on the basis of race. In your case, you're arguing its justified based on the crime stats. I can concede that, to a certain extent, its a defensible argument.

But regardless of that, my point here is to show you that having to deal with this prejudice is something that blacks have to deal with that whites don't and that its separate from the economic challenges that the black community faces. A middle class black male in the wrong place at the wrong time might run into a cop like you; a well meaning and not racist cop who nonetheless might make some assumptions about this black male that he wouldn't have otherwise made if it was a white male.

White privilege is partly about not having to deal with this kind of racial prejudice. Open racism is relatively rare nowadays, most of the time the prejudice comes from people not unlike you. People who aren't consciously racist, who are otherwise decent people, but nonetheless are prone to making certain assumptions based on race, consciously or unconsciously. When that prejudice comes from otherwise well meaning cops, teachers, or employers those assumptions can have lasting consequences.

You watch too many Spike Lee movies.

 

[Islam Imamate]

You watch too many Spike Lee movies.

I don't think I've ever seen a Spike Lee movie

 

[WTF2008]

I don't think I've ever seen a Spike Lee movie

You should. They're pretty non-biased and not racist at all.
I'd almost call them reverse racist.

 

[deadshot138]

White privilege doesn’t exist, just another fabrication from the left to shit on white men. If you don’t get what you want in life, it’s because you quit, not because some magical “privilege” allowed someone else to get it instead of you. Except of course you’re a victim of affirmative action.