When boxers try MMA..

[RAFI BOMB]

Well there have been plenty of examples of pure boxers/kickboxers getting owned by anyone with any grappling skill. Ray Mercer knocked someone out who didn't try to take him down, which proves nothing. It's common knowledge by now that pure grappling > pure striking. It's not subjective

There really haven't been that many examples. I am looking at it more from a scientific standpoint. There would need to be large number of controlled samples to prove such a claim. That is in part how statistics and probability work.

Common knowledge is often flawed and in some cases inaccurate so that is why it is important to be critical of it. There also haven't been many high end boxers and almost no high end boxers anywhere near their prime attempt mma. This makes it hard to make such a conclusion. We just have a theoretical interpretation. There have been BJJ black belts, olympic medalists in judo and wrestling and NCAA champion wrestlers who were close to their prime compete in mma. Almost all boxers where no where close to being the best in the sport or they were well out of their prime.

The key thing is that if a real study was performed with hundreds of trials it may turn out that a pure grappler beats a pure boxer 60% or the time or maybe 55% of the time. That would still prove your point but it could at least theoretically be a lot closer than the assumption.

 

[FlowchartRog]

When MMAers do boxing

Fuck boxing, limited sport is limited

Nah, this is what happens when elite MMA fighters fight elite boxers. This is the only relevant example. The prime P4P king Conor McGregor, fighting small, retired, brittle handed malteser head Floyd, 40 years old and 20 pounds lighter.

Beat the snot out of him, without even trying.

 

[fastone]

There are former professional boxers that transitioned into mma and actually found success. It is a bit surprising that they aren't brought up in discussions like this.

Eric "Butterbean" Esch had a professional boxing record of 77 wins (58 Ko's) 10 losses and 4 draws. His mma record was 17-10-1.

Jeremy "Half-Man, Half-Amazing" Williams had a pro boxing record of 43-5-1. His mma record was 5-0.

Raphael " The Silencer" Butler had a pro boxing record of 35-12-2. His mma record was 9-2-1.

Marcus Davis had a pro boxing record of 17-1-2. His mma record was 22-11-1.

Miirko Cro Cop had an amateur boxing record of 48-8. His mma record is 36-11-2.

Cody Gardbrandt had an amateur boxing record of 32-0. His mma record is 12-1.

Alessio Sakara had a professional boxing record of 8-1. His mma record is 19-12-2.

Fabio Maldonaldo had a professional boxing record of 25-0. His mma record is 24-11-1.

Chris Lytle had a pro boxing record of 13-1-1. His mma record was 31-18-5.

Holly Holm had a pro boxing record of 33-2-3. Her mma record is 11-4.

KJ Noons had a pro boxing record of 11-2. His mma record was 13-9-1.

Joseph Duffy had a pro boxing record of 7-0. His mma record is 17-3.

Get the fuck outta here with logic and facts, etc... You trying to ruin this idiot's typical sherdog thread?

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Remember when Arlovski was training with Roach to be a professional boxer.... Dude might have the best loss to knockout loss ratio in history....

Arlovski actually did well training with Roach. His losses weren't due to his boxing training.
He started training with Roach in 2008 and went on to KO Ben Rothwell and Roy Nelson. He then fought Fedor where he looked good and then through that flying knee and got brutally knocked out. That was a difficult KO to come back from. He then fought Brett Rogers who TKOed him in the first minute. He lost a decision to Bigfoot Silva and then got KOed with Kharitonov.

Fedor, Rogers and Kharitonov are big time punchers so there is a big risk in getting knocked out by them with boxing training or not.

He didn't stop training with Roach until late 2012 if I am not mistaken. So he still had a TKO over Ray Lopez and a KO over Travis Fulton. He then had a NC over Tim Sylvia who he dropped but got disqualified for a soccer kick.

That KO loss to Fedor really derailed him.

 

[fastone]

Nah, this is what happens when elite MMA fighters fight elite boxers. This is the only relevant example. The prime P4P king Conor McGregor, fighting small, retired, brittle handed malteser head Floyd, 40 years old and 20 pounds lighter.

Beat the snot out of him, without even trying.

And made me embarrassed to be a combat sports fan.. All in one fight!

 

[FlowchartRog]

There are former professional boxers that transitioned into mma and actually found success. It is a bit surprising that they aren't brought up in discussions like this.

Eric "Butterbean" Esch had a professional boxing record of 77 wins (58 Ko's) 10 losses and 4 draws. His mma record was 17-10-1.

Jeremy "Half-Man, Half-Amazing" Williams had a pro boxing record of 43-5-1. His mma record was 5-0.

Raphael " The Silencer" Butler had a pro boxing record of 35-12-2. His mma record was 9-2-1.

Marcus Davis had a pro boxing record of 17-1-2. His mma record was 22-11-1.

Miirko Cro Cop had an amateur boxing record of 48-8. His mma record is 36-11-2.

Cody Gardbrandt had an amateur boxing record of 32-0. His mma record is 12-1.

Alessio Sakara had a professional boxing record of 8-1. His mma record is 19-12-2.

Fabio Maldonaldo had a professional boxing record of 25-0. His mma record is 24-11-1.

Chris Lytle had a pro boxing record of 13-1-1. His mma record was 31-18-5.

Holly Holm had a pro boxing record of 33-2-3. Her mma record is 11-4.

KJ Noons had a pro boxing record of 11-2. His mma record was 13-9-1.

Joseph Duffy had a pro boxing record of 7-0. His mma record is 17-3.

And now let's have a look at 3 elite UFC strikers, and see how they did in boxing.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/222971

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/152826

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/802658

 

[FlowchartRog]

I don't know what it is like in the UK but I have been noticing that there are a lot more notable boxing events being aired for free on TV here in Canada lately. The most recent fights by Deontay Wilder, Danny Garcia, Srisaket Sor Rungvisai, Miguel Cotto, Mikey Garcia and Vasly Lomachenko have all be on sports channels. These were all title fights and they were great. They were actually better then a lot of UFC pay per views. It makes me wonder if the UFC will dish the PPV model or offer better fight cards.

I'm not usually a huge fan of flyweights or heavyweights, but I gotta admit there are some standout fighters in those weights now.

Rungvisai as you mentioned has proved to be a real force, clearly the #1 in his division now that Inoue is moving up to 118.

Inoue is excellent and should be fun to see him at bantamweight.

If you haven't seen him already, check out Daigo Higa. He's a beast, I'll take him over anyone at 115.

And of course Joshua Vs Wilder is a great matchup, the best HW fight in years.

 

[Mga223]

And now let's have a look at 3 elite UFC strikers, and see how they did in boxing.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/222971

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/152826

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/802658

Funny how they fight once or twice and run back to mma.

Where the competition is a lil bit easier.

 

[McGeezle]

Nah, this is what happens when elite MMA fighters fight elite boxers. This is the only relevant example. The prime P4P king Conor McGregor, fighting small, retired, brittle handed malteser head Floyd, 40 years old and 20 pounds lighter.

Beat the snot out of him, without even trying.

How often do you post all these gifs? Do you smile to hold back the tears when talking about Conor (constantly)?

 

[FlowchartRog]

How often do you post all these gifs? Do you smile to hold back the tears when talking about Conor (constantly)?

I post the gifs whenever I feel like nausing some pathetic McNuthuggers, such as yourself. And no tears, why would there be? I'm not the McNuthugger, you are. The idea is to make you cry, and it worked a charm.

 

[McGeezle]

There really haven't been that many examples. I am looking at it more from a scientific standpoint. There would need to be large number of controlled samples to prove such a claim. That is in part how statistics and probability work.

Common knowledge is often flawed and in some cases inaccurate so that is why it is important to be critical of it. There also haven't been many high end boxers and almost no high end boxers anywhere near their prime attempt mma. This makes it hard to make such a conclusion. We just have a theoretical interpretation. There have been BJJ black belts, olympic medalists in judo and wrestling and NCAA champion wrestlers who were close to their prime compete in mma. Almost all boxers where no where close to being the best in the sport or they were well out of their prime.

The key thing is that if a real study was performed with hundreds of trials it may turn out that a pure grappler beats a pure boxer 60% or the time or maybe 55% of the time. That would still prove your point but it could at least theoretically be a lot closer than the assumption.

Why do they need to be elite boxers? The level of boxing has nothing to do with defending takedowns. People who still talk about boxers potentially beating grapplers are the ones using 'theoretical interpretation'. It has been proven over the DECADES that you have to learn how to grapple to keep it on the feet. That's why wrestling and BJJ are still prominent in MMA today. If you could just train boxing the whole time and not waste your time with grappling because you can just "move out of the way" or whatever people think, then wrestling would have been weeded out along with all the bullshit arts and MMA today would just look like kickboxing in a cage.

 

[McGeezle]

I post the gifs whenever I feel like nausing some pathetic McNuthuggers, such as yourself. And no tears, why would there be? I'm not the McNuthugger, you are. The idea is to make you cry, and it worked a charm.

Did you just call someone else pathetic? Wow...
Yes obviously I'm a nuthugger because I don't act like you. It's not like there's an inbetween or anything.
Fucking manchild

 

[McGruber]

Tim Slyvia wasnt even supposed to have a license to fight.

He had severe health and mobility issues. That fight has zero bearing on how a boxer would do against a top mma fighter in the octagon.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Why do they need to be elite boxers? The level of boxing has nothing to do with defending takedowns. People who still talk about boxers potentially beating grapplers are the ones using 'theoretical interpretation'. It has been proven over the DECADES that you have to learn how to grapple to keep it on the feet. That's why wrestling and BJJ are still prominent in MMA today. If you could just train boxing the whole time and not waste your time with grappling because you can just "move out of the way" or whatever people think, then wrestling would have been weeded out along with all the bullshit arts and MMA today would just look like kickboxing in a cage.

High end boxers are intelligent and use sophisticated tactics. They understand range and ring generalship well. They use feints including punch feints, head feints and footwork feints. They don't just stand there throwing punches, they are attempting to outsmart their opponents. To bait them in and force them to fight their style of fight.

To achieve a takedown you need to grab a hold of your opponent. If a boxer was fighting a pure grappler and he was educated enough to know that the grappler was trying to take him down he would be more hesitant to enter in his range. He would potentially use feints and footwork to get his opponent to overcommit and reveal his tells of his tactics. If a boxer can figure out the grapplers tells then he can potentially set him up to get knocked out.

But even then we don't need to argue this because we already know that in mma multiple tactics or effective. A brawler like Chuck Liddel was able to use defensive wrestling to knock out many grapplers. The effectivness of boxing wouldn't make grappling ineffective just that boxing does have some effectivness.

These might be worthwhile

 

[codfather]

Mayweather vs McGregor was at light middleweight.

Mayweather would still probably be favored over any boxer in the world at that weight class.

Floyd took 10 rounds to dispatch a guy with zero pro experience and practically zero amateur experience.

McGregor never went down.

Mayweather vs McGregor was a win for MMA, not boxing.

 

[Mark Cutting]

I love how Randy goes for that ankle pick. lol.

Low single

 

[Marc A]

James Toney gets merked by Randy Couture
Ray Mercer KTFOs Tim Sylvia
lol

We all know you are a conor hater

 

[ironball]

High end boxers are intelligent and use sophisticated tactics. They understand range and ring generalship well. They use feints including punch feints, head feints and footwork feints. They don't just stand there throwing punches, they are attempting to outsmart their opponents. To bait them in and force them to fight their style of fight.

To achieve a takedown you need to grab a hold of your opponent. If a boxer was fighting a pure grappler and he was educated enough to know that the grappler was trying to take him down he would be more hesitant to enter in his range. He would potentially use feints and footwork to get his opponent to overcommit and reveal his tells of his tactics. If a boxer can figure out the grapplers tells then he can potentially set him up to get knocked out.

But even then we don't need to argue this because we already know that in mma multiple tactics or effective. A brawler like Chuck Liddel was able to use defensive wrestling to knock out many grapplers. The effectivness of boxing wouldn't make grappling ineffective just that boxing does have some effectivness.

These might be worthwhile

Some great points in the 2nd video lol

 

[FlowchartRog]

Mayweather vs McGregor was at light middleweight.

Mayweather would still probably be favored over any boxer in the world at that weight class.

Floyd took 10 rounds to dispatch a guy with zero pro experience and practically zero amateur experience.

McGregor never went down.

Mayweather vs McGregor was a win for MMA, not boxing.

You have to be kidding, jesus. The Floyd that turned up against Conor barely resembled the old Floyd, just plodded around like a Mexican journeyman. Part of that was by design, to make it seem like more of a fight than it was, but still, the point is no one in boxing would favour this 41 year old Floyd over the elite junior middles.

And lol at a win for MMA, no it was definitely a win for boxing. You'd have to be a McNuthugger of the highest order to think that was a "win" for Conor or MMA. The #1 striker in MMA got walked down and beaten up by a retired 40 year old, 20 pounds lighter, without even breaking a sweat. Floyd was barely trying, and was still far too much for Conor. Don't forget half of sherdog seemed to think the "170 pound Irish gorilla" would be just too powerful for little Floyd, and like Rogan said "He only needs to touch him with the left!" <Lmaoo>

Turns out in the boxing world, he hits like Paulie.

 

[nac386]

When MMAers do boxing

Fuck boxing, limited sport is limited

Apparently you did not see Browne's fight this weekend?