Whats smarter, learning only high % strikes or learning some lower % strikes too?

[BringBackTRTforFairness]

High % = Round kicks, boxing punches, some knees and elbows

Medium or low % = Spinning side kicks, Front Kicks, Side kicks, Spinning heel kicks, Hook kicks, Axe Kicks, spinning back fist, spinning elbows etc


Is it more effective to ONLY and strictly master the high % stuff because any training time devoted to lower % kicks is time that could be better spent else where? Also their can be great variety and mastery for even just the high % stuff.


Or is it better to have a few extras for unpredictability e.g. a low % strike can become effective if its not expected - everyone expects and is well trained for a boxing punch or round kick, more dynamic adaptability you can strike from more positions angles etc and other opportunities e.g. throwing a high risk strike (rolling thunder) at the end of a round where the risk is mitigated by the fact the round is about to be over etc?




Im thinking the low % stuff is not wasted time but not optimal use of time either and youd be better off getting really really good with what works so well ie the high %

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

The lower% stuff can be useful once you've already mastered the high% basics. But if you've mastered the basics, you might likely find that you do not need the little fancy stuff, or that its just fun to throw in during training but not use in competitions or when it counts.

If you've absolutely mastered the basics, you're a top level master at fighting effectively, period. The basics go a lot deeper than most people would like to admit. Most practitioners, including pros, never master them.

 

[Phelly2]

Whether you want to spend a great deal of time learning low percentage strikes is really a matter of style, I think. Anthony Pettis seems to use them rather effectively.

As a general rule, though, you probably don't want to waste too much time training them until your high percentage strikes are at a high level, though.

 

[BringBackTRTforFairness]

Whether you want to spend a great deal of time learning low percentage strikes is really a matter of style, I think. Anthony Pettis seems to use them rather effectively.

As a general rule, though, you probably don't want to waste too much time training them until your high percentage strikes are at a high level, though.

Oh plenty of guys use them effectively no one is disputing that Andy Hug, Cung Le, Machida, Pettis and so on. The question is would all of those strikers been better off mastering high % stuff and skipping the lower % stuff? Would their overall effectiveness have been better or worse?

There seems to be no limit in sight when it comes to mastering the high % stuff look at boxing look at mayweather look at the elite below him, look at pro boxers, look at low level boxers, the mastery of hands alone takes decades. Progression perhaps doesn't ever have to stop, only age is the limiting factor on skill perhaps.

So someone thats got to learn kicks and knees as well and if in MMA Grappling etc do you really want to be learning spinning heel kicks and so forth is that really going to be more beneficial than mastering the good stuff?


Lets say you already have your high % stuff up to a high standard would it not be better to keep trying top improve them, rather than go learn some lower % techniques? Whats more productive for effectiveness?

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

Oh plenty of guys use them effectively no one is disputing that Andy Hug, Cung Le, Machida, Pettis and so on. The question is would all of those strikers been better off mastering high % stuff and skipping the lower % stuff? Would their overall effectiveness have been better or worse?

There seems to be no limit in sight when it comes to mastering the high % stuff look at boxing look at mayweather look at the elite below him, look at pro boxers, look at low level boxers, the mastery of hands alone takes decades. Progression perhaps doesn't ever have to stop, only age is the limiting factor on skill perhaps.

So someone thats got to learn kicks and knees as well and if in MMA Grappling etc do you really want to be learning spinning heel kicks and so forth is that really going to be more beneficial than mastering the good stuff?


Lets say you already have your high % stuff up to a high standard would it not be better to keep trying top improve them, rather than go learn some lower % techniques? Whats more productive for effectiveness?

it depends on your natural talents. Also starting young helps alot. fyi Machida mostly throws high percentage strikes. and some strikes are high percentage based on the individual. andy was an example of that. Personally I can throw spinning back kicks all day and land them.

 

[panamaican]

I assumed this would be here already.

The smartest learning is to master the high % stuff and slowly add lower level stuff. As noted above, mastering the basics is much deeper than most people realize. Take a basic front kick - different heights, moving to the left vs. moving to the right, feinting into it, etc. There are dozens of little things you should know before you can claim to have mastered even something as obvious as a front kick. I'm sure the same applies something like the jab - jab to the body, double jab, jab while moving, jab while slipping, jab while retreating, etc.

 

[rmongler]

'Basics' aren't very basic.

 

[a guy]

Most of your time should be spent on things even more fundamental than any individual technique--footwork, proper weight shifting, fist formation, posture, head movement, sense of distance, rhythm, balance, things like that. Then the techniques you learn should mostly be high percentage, basic techniques. However, adding some flashier moves to your game is very beneficial, they just have to make sense within your game. A forward moving pressure fighter who adds a wheel kick to his game can punish people who try to circle away from his power hand against the cage--see McGregor. An outfighter can make great use of a flying knee to catch someone closing distance on them--see Aldo, Barboza and the Cuban Missile, Yoel Romero. Low percentage moves can become high percentage when set up well and executed strategically.

 

[n.diazismylife1999]

If you're reasonably athletic and flexible, "exotic" strikes don't take long to learn to a level where you can execute them competently. They're great to have in your arsenal, even if you don't use them much. Sometimes, especially if you don't use them much. A sudden spinning kick can catch your opponent off-guard and end the fight instantly if you mostly fight conventionally. A lot of guys also won't have developed reflexes for dealing with the more exotic variety of kicks/strikes.

Also, having a wide variety of strikes at your disposal lets you add to your feint game even if you don't use them. As long as the threat is there, you can make use of the threat in your feints and hit them with something else.

 

[BringBackTRTforFairness]

it depends on your natural talents. Also starting young helps alot. fyi Machida mostly throws high percentage strikes. and some strikes are high percentage based on the individual. andy was an example of that. Personally I can throw spinning back kicks all day and land them.

so some of you are saying it would be more beneficial for a naturally gifted (fast etc) guy to learn the spinning heel kick rather than improve his already good straight right ?

Some are suggesting this is time well spent and the superior way to do things

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

so some of you are saying it would be more beneficial for a naturally gifted (fast etc) guy to learn the spinning heel kick rather than improve his already good straight right ?

Some are suggesting this is time well spent and the superior way to do things

well tbh I can only give personal experience and growing up I rarely did the spinning back kick. I just have good legs and am a good kicker naturally so when I started to do it, it just worked out. does that help?

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

You can practice some lower% things, but the majority of your time and effort should ideally go towards learning the high% bread and butter, assuming you want to progress as quickly and fully as possible in the time you train.

A big problem with the lower% stuff is that a lot of people get carried away and distracted into putting their mental focus into primarily those things because they're flashy and shiny, and then when they ARE training the basics, suddenly their enthusiasm and focus disappears. It's like being addicted to candy. This happens more often than you would think, in fact, it seems like MOST people do this (and not coincidentally, most people end up worse than mediocre)

 

[BringBackTRTforFairness]

You can practice some lower% things, but the majority of your time and effort should ideally go towards learning the high% bread and butter, assuming you want to progress as quickly and fully as possible in the time you train.

A big problem with the lower% stuff is that a lot of people get carried away and distracted into putting their mental focus into primarily those things because they're flashy and shiny, and then when they ARE training the basics, suddenly their enthusiasm and focus disappears. It's like being addicted to candy. This happens more often than you would think, in fact, it seems like MOST people do this (and not coincidentally, most people end up worse than mediocre)

No thats not what im asking. Im not asking if its ok, im asking whats optimal whats smarter?

Im asking whats the smarter way to train!

100% on high % stuff?

Or incorporate some lower % stuff as well?




Bruce Lee while he was not a fighter he was extremely intelligent, and while I dont believe all his techniques were high percentage he believed they were. So Bruce Lee thinks you should focus only on high % stuff, and he is a freak of speed the type of guy that can make spinning and flashy stuff work/effective, but he chose to keep to the high % only.



He was so obsessed with being high percentage infact that he threw away alot of medium % power strikes from the rear side, there was no rear round kick in JKD only a round kick with the front leg, and if you watch high level kickboxers alot of them rely on only the front leg round kiuck most of teh time because its so hard to land the rear leg round kick on a good opponent because its too slow, too far away. Same for the left hook and right hook, the right hook isnt used much at the highest level in boxing. .

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

No thats not what im asking. Im not asking if its ok, im asking whats optimal whats smarter?

Im asking whats the smarter way to train!

100% on high % stuff?

Or incorporate some lower % stuff as well?




Bruce Lee while he was not a fighter he was extremely intelligent, and while I dont believe all his techniques were high percentage he believed they were. So Bruce Lee thinks you should focus only on high % stuff, and he is a freak of speed the type of guy that can make spinning and flashy stuff work/effective, but he chose to keep to the high % only.



He was so obsessed with being high percentage infact that he threw away alot of medium % power strikes from the rear side, there was no rear round kick in JKD only a round kick with the front leg, and if you watch high level kickboxers alot of them rely on only the front leg round kiuck most of teh time because its so hard to land the rear leg round kick on a good opponent because its too slow, too far away. Same for the left hook and right hook, the right hook isnt used much at the highest level in boxing. .

I thought I made it pretty clear that one should ideally train most or all of their effort/focus on the high% (basics). Whether it should be "most" or "all" comes down to the individual person-- sometimes a person has a freak ability (usually incredible athleticism) which makes a usually lower % move work extremely well for them, like an ace up their sleeve, but if they haven't trained the rest of their game with high % basics, they wont be in a moment to deploy it.

Either way, while you are learning to fight (beginning and middle levels), you want to train exclusively high% techniques and fundamentals. When you're solid on those (when you're effective and your coach is impressed with your overall skillset), then maybe experiment by throwing in a wild card or two, but not before that. Ideally.

 

[Frode Falch]

intermediate beat basics.

Advanced beat intermediate.

Basics beat advanced.

So goes the circle..

Anyway. I like fancy strikes. But every striker need to figure out what types of fancy stuff that works for them. Body types and what footwork they use, are important factors.

 

[BringBackTRTforFairness]

I thought I made it pretty clear that one should ideally train most or all of their effort/focus on the high% (basics). Whether it should be "most" or "all" comes down to the individual person-- sometimes a person has a freak ability (usually incredible athleticism) which makes a usually lower % move work extremely well for them, like an ace up their sleeve, but if they haven't trained the rest of their game with high % basics, they wont be in a moment to deploy it.

Either way, while you are learning to fight (beginning and middle levels), you want to train exclusively high% techniques and fundamentals. When you're solid on those (when you're effective and your coach is impressed with your overall skillset), then maybe experiment by throwing in a wild card or two, but not before that. Ideally.

So you are saying something contrary to what Bruce Lee thought, he believed in everything high % nothing low, and even medium % stuff was not the focus it was extremism for the high %. Which is how the high level strikers often end up fighting too.

So you think a normal guy should focus 100% on the high % stuff.

You also think a gifted guy should focus mainly on the high % stuff but also add something extra to suit his gift, e.g. a fast guy like Roy Jones Jr using lead left hooks that are not set up, or even right hooks at long range, simply because he was so fast he could do it and end the fight quickly.



Im starting to think that whats high % for a normal person is not high % for a very fast person. I think whats high % is down to the persons genetics but is generally whats high% for everyone else.



But then again maybe Roy Jones Jr would have been better if he jabbed more and didnt lead with the left?

Its a tricky question to answer!

 

[BringBackTRTforFairness]

I believe that you have to follow the science. I believe Bruce Lee was right.

A fast person may make a spinning heel kick from a low % strike into a medium percentage strike due to his genetics, but the jab cross and left round kicks still land more often score more often and knock out more often, they still travel less distance and get their faster, for him and everyone, they work even better for him too as do all strikes due to his speed, they are scientifically better for nearly everyone.

So I think you should logically train 100% on the high % stuff and 0% of your training should be on things like spinning heel kicks, and spinning side kicks even if you are very quick and they become more practical, the higher % stuff also becomes more practical for you, and its still the better weapon, the better choice which will get the better result in a fight most of the time.


The whole idea of a spinning heel kick being a good idea due to genetics, speed, surprise, strategy, etc doesn't add up because the higher % is a better strategy that works more often for nearly everyone

 

[BringBackTRTforFairness]

What is high % does differ for people and genetics BUT NOT MUCH AT ALL! It takes a really weird body to change whats high % , perhaps if you were massive long powerful and slow (like Semmi Schilt) the front kick would become high % for you but its only a bizarre freak that would change whats high % someone super rare

 

[n.diazismylife1999]

First, Bruce Lee trained plenty of exotic strikes.

Second, do you train? If so, for how long? I'd recommend just doing the basics for now. From the way you talk, it all sounds very theoretical.

In practice, you don't have to set down "high % moves 15 minutes, low % moves 2 minutes" in your calendar. Spend the majority of your time focusing on the basics and then train the low percentage moves when you feel like it, as a warm up, as active recovery, etc. Nobody's training a jab-straight 24 hours a day, and devoting a reasonable(ly small) amount of time to more exotic techniques isn't going to fuck with your basics.