What's more important

flikerstance

flikerstance

floridaman
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do you think in fighting strength or conditioning? which would you choose? say a guy who's a 170 fighter, who can only squat like 290, but has amazing conditioning. or a guy with average conditioning, with a 460 squat, what's most beneficial?
 
If you're fighting, conditioning every day of the week.
 
This is a false dichotomy, and a longstanding dumbass training myth -- that you have to choose strength or endurance.

Take a look at a guy like Alex Viada:

http://tonygentilcore.com/2015/06/a...eakest-slowest-and-smallest-human-being-ever/

He squats 700+, benches 450+, deadlifts 700+, runs ultramarathons, runs Iron Man triathalons, runs a 4:30 mile. It's within human capability to have both. It's just poor, inefficient, and/or antiquated training that would allow a top athlete -- in a sport that benefits from strength and conditioning -- to neglect one or the other.

A fighter like fikerstance should know from experience (at least watching fights) which hurts a guy worse; stepping into the cage weak or stepping in with low cardio. Anyone who has followed this sport for any length of time knows of instances where a fighter has lost by being overpowered, and of instances where a fighter has lost due to poor conditioning.

We're not here to say that any fighter should neglect one entire portion or segment of the training that's helpful to win fights. People should enhance their strengths and shore up their weaknesses with the training they need, and enter the cage or ring prepared. Any trainer that would tell a fighter to train this but not that, when both would be good to have, is cheating their fighter.

The "what's better, strength or conditioning" question is at best a silly hypothetical. It's asked by children, the inexperienced, and the weak minded. Any fighter who wants to win would want to have both strength and cardio, and it's perfectly reasonable to train for both.
 
You don't really have to choose. Even if your training is limited due to time, availability of equipment, etc. For fighting and athletic purposes I say if youre gonna pick just one way to train, do high rep explosion work. The weight will be light enough to get in enough reps to build endurance but doing them explosively will train the muscles to contract with max force as well. There is also some trainers out there who say training for max strength will have a positive effect on endurance as well. Im not sure how I feel about that but I can see some of the logic holding true.
 
My guess is not being 70lbs over your weight class is more important.
 
Cmart said:
This is a false dichotomy, and a longstanding dumbass training myth -- that you have to choose strength or endurance.

Take a look at a guy like Alex Viada:

http://tonygentilcore.com/2015/06/a...eakest-slowest-and-smallest-human-being-ever/

He squats 700+, benches 450+, deadlifts 700+, runs ultramarathons, runs Iron Man triathalons, runs a 4:30 mile. It's within human capability to have both. It's just poor, inefficient, and/or antiquated training that would allow a top athlete -- in a sport that benefits from strength and conditioning -- to neglect one or the other.

A fighter like fikerstance should know from experience (at least watching fights) which hurts a guy worse; stepping into the cage weak or stepping in with low cardio. Anyone who has followed this sport for any length of time knows of instances where a fighter has lost by being overpowered, and of instances where a fighter has lost due to poor conditioning.

We're not here to say that any fighter should neglect one entire portion or segment of the training that's helpful to win fights. People should enhance their strengths and shore up their weaknesses with the training they need, and enter the cage or ring prepared. Any trainer that would tell a fighter to train this but not that, when both would be good to have, is cheating their fighter.

The "what's better, strength or conditioning" question is at best a silly hypothetical. It's asked by children, the inexperienced, and the weak minded. Any fighter who wants to win would want to have both strength and cardio, and it's perfectly reasonable to train for both.
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No shit but if you only had time to fully focus on one which would you mostly focus on I know the answer I've trained with the best in the world was just discussing
 
flikerstance said:
No shit but if you only had time to fully focus on one which would you mostly focus on I know the answer I've trained with the best in the world was just discussing
Click to expand...

This motherfucker trains with ricky Hatton.
 
flikerstance said:
No shit but if you only had time to fully focus on one which would you mostly focus on I know the answer I've trained with the best in the world was just discussing
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If you were going into a fight, which side of kicks and punches would you use, considering you could only use one side the whole fight? Left or right?

If you had to go into a fight with your eyes or your nose and mouth covered with a thick scarf, which would you choose?

If you had to choose to never train for standup or never train for ground, which would be best?

You could do stupid, irrelevant hypothetical questions all day. It's like being in a car with second graders playing "would you rather." This is your preferred level of discourse, it seems.
 
flikerstance said:
do you think in fighting strength or conditioning? which would you choose? say a guy who's a 170 fighter, who can only squat like 290, but has amazing conditioning. or a guy with average conditioning, with a 460 squat, what's most beneficial?
Click to expand...


Why not just be reasonable and have both? It's perfectly reasonable for a 170lb fighter to get his squad to at least 315lbs (arbitrarily picked) and still have amazing conditioning.

There's this misinformation going around that makes people think if you get strong you can't have got conditioning, which just isn't correct. While you don't want to have unnecessary muscle from a bodybuilding style workout, you can absolutely do strength training and get great results while not getting weighed down with muscle. Most strength training is muscle efficiency and CNS optimization along with learning correct leverages for your body.

For a beginner fighter, I always recommend that they start with a 3x week split like Starting Strength or Stronglifts, and run it until you start getting too sore to recover in time for your sport or you start hitting a plateau. Once you hit that, I'd drop back to a 2x a week program for athletes, like Wendler 531.

Most top level fighters and other athletes are both strong and have high endurance, because it's perfectly achievable.
 
For me doing pure bjj the
jgarner said:
Why not just be reasonable and have both? It's perfectly reasonable for a 170lb fighter to get his squad to at least 315lbs (arbitrarily picked) and still have amazing conditioning.

There's this misinformation going around that makes people think if you get strong you can't have got conditioning, which just isn't correct. While you don't want to have unnecessary muscle from a bodybuilding style workout, you can absolutely do strength training and get great results while not getting weighed down with muscle. Most strength training is muscle efficiency and CNS optimization along with learning correct leverages for your body.

For a beginner fighter, I always recommend that they start with a 3x week split like Starting Strength or Stronglifts, and run it until you start getting too sore to recover in time for your sport or you start hitting a plateau. Once you hit that, I'd drop back to a 2x a week program for athletes, like Wendler 531.

Most top level fighters and other athletes are both strong and have high endurance, because it's perfectly achievable.
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n training pure boxing with pros at the gym and doing pure wrestling then strength and conditioning and then having a day to put it all together is a bit hard to fully do everything I plan once I get my squat to 315 5 reps 3 sets dead lift 330 and bench 205 then I'm gonna switch to 531
 
flikerstance said:
Youde have to be an absolute moron to ever get 70 pounds away from your fight weight you must really suck lol I can't even respond to you now after such a thing
Click to expand...

I know, right?


flikerstance said:
Once I get my weight down some more I will I fight 170 and some 185 in like 245 now lol need t walk around at 205 again once I get to 205 I'll start my camp it's hard t roll hard sprint ect when you gain so much so I'm gonna roll and lift and do light cardio until I hit 220 then I'll add in my sprints ect for conditioning
Click to expand...
 
flikerstance said:
For me doing pure bjj then training pure boxing with pros at the gym and doing pure wrestling then strength and conditioning and then having a day to put it all together is a bit hard to fully do everything I plan once I get my squat to 315 5 reps 3 sets dead lift 330 and bench 205 then I'm gonna switch to 531
Click to expand...

Your post is rather confusing, but if you're trying to do BJJ, boxing, and wrestling then it's going to be incredibly hard to fit strength training in.

If you keep it simple with just Squat/bench/deadlift then you should be able to fit it in a short period of time. 5 minute rest times will put you at around an hour and a half tops each session. If you can do block periodization and focus on one thing each block then that will help you greatly in that you can devote more time to one specificity each block. That's getting towards more advanced training methods.

Like i do something like this....


Block 1 (4 weeks)
- Strength training 3x week (muscle building and base strength)
- Striking 2x week ( drills and technique work)
- grappling 1x every other week (drills and technique work)

Block 2 (4 weeks)
- Strength training 2x week (power and agility)
- Striking 1x week (heavy bag and conditioning)
- Grappling 1x week (drills and technique work)

Et cetera.... it's a little more fine tuned than that, but I think the picture is shown. You can't feed everything all the time or you'll burn out. You need recovery time
 
Everyone is different some people need to do more strength and some people need to do more conditioning. You need both but how much you need is going to vary drastically between different people. Idk about MMA but for boxing I'd give conditioning a nod over strength if I had a gun to my head. MMA it might be strength but idk.
 
When I'm training hard I do bjj Monday through Friday boxing 4 days a week and wrestling 2 to 3 I lift 2 days a week and conditioning 2 it's hard to keep the pace up I do exactly what the pro boxing guys so plus all my other training
 
flikerstance said:
When I'm training hard I do bjj Monday through Friday boxing 4 days a week and wrestling 2 to 3 I lift 2 days a week and conditioning 2 it's hard to keep the pace up I do exactly what the pro boxing guys so plus all my other training
Click to expand...
I like to look at the guys in my division at the top and see what they have over me . I'm fine as far as grappling and striking, but most are stronger since I never lifted many weights. my 1 rep max now is about 315 squat, which I want to get to around 450. most 170s can squat in the low 400s, and dead lift 500 I deadlift 300
 
I train 6 days a week boxing, bjj, mma, kickboxing, wrestling for a minimum of 3 hours. About 3 times a week I will lift weights for 45 minutes and then either ride the aerodyne or treadmill for 30/45 minutes at 150-160 bpm followed by 5 minutes at 170-180 bpm.

It has been working amazing for me. But almost all my fight training is mostly technique. Besides for maybe a burnout drill of sports specific training at the end.

All my GPP markers have improved but unfortunately im injured from a fight right now so everything has dropped lol. The only drawback is that I constantly find myself snacking and sneaking in semi-shitty foods because my body needs it, but it comes with the territory I guess. (I used to have a VERY good diet)

Btw I saw your thread about you coming to Hawaii to train.. Do you know where you are going to train?
 
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biscuitsbrah said:
I train 6 days a week boxing, bjj, mma, kickboxing, wrestling for a minimum of 3 hours. About 3 times a week I will lift weights for 45 minutes and then either ride the aerodyne or treadmill for 30/45 minutes at 150-160 bpm followed by 5 minutes at 170-180 bpm.

It has been working amazing for me. But almost all my fight training is mostly technique. Besides for maybe a burnout drill of sports specific training at the end.

All my GPP markers have improved but unfortunately im injured from a fight right now so everything has dropped lol. The only drawback is that I constantly find myself snacking and sneaking in semi-shitty foods because my body needs it, but it comes with the territory I guess. (I used to have a VERY good diet)

Btw I saw your thread about you coming to Hawaii to train.. Do you know where you are going to train?
Click to expand...
I'm staying with relson Gracie and training at his main gym is like to train at a few other places but he wouldn't like that sAdly he hates all other martial arts for mma so I'll mostly be using this to train with his black belts there Yeah dieting a a bitch after you have had to cut weight before I use to do some crazy things to cut weight years back most I've done was 17 in 20 hours it ruined my metabolism
 
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